The Rankings Thread (ATP)

herios

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Catching up with the players who hit new career highs in the last 2 weeks, as I have not done it after the week of Paris masters:

As of Nov 4 (age in brackets):

Michal Przysiezny (29) 59
Tim Smyczek (23) 82
Oleksandr Nedovyesov (26) 95.

And now, after London, as of 11 November:

Michal Przysiezny 58
Tim Smyczek 73

Both Michal and Tim are on a continuous uptrend in the last 3 weeks. I read about the 29y old Michal that his goal is to make the top 50, since about 3+ years ago. Nice to see a 29y old still working hard to achieve his goal.
Tim on another note, is now the number 3 ranked American player.
 

herios

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Here are this last week of the season updates, for those who would like to know:

52 career high for:

Alejandro Gonzalez (Col) 24y ranked 91; he broke into the top 100 for the first time following his runner-up showing at the ATP Challenger Tour Finals

Oleksandr Nedovyesov (Ukr) 26y ranked 93;

Bradley Khlan (USA) 23y ranked 97, first time in the top 100.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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and djokovic gets an exciting 150 rank points for his 2 wins in the DC final.
 

GameSetAndMath

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But, he did not get that bonus 75 points that he could have got if Serbia won DC.
 

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GameSetAndMath said:
But, he did not get that bonus 75 points that he could have got if Serbia won DC.

I'm glad I can say it wouldn't have made any difference if Nole had played the doubles! This isn't like the old days when top player wins his 2 rubbers and has to contribute to the doubles as well! They weren't going to hit "the zone" and take out a top doubles' team! Borg did it in '75, but it's a rare feat to win with only one good player! Nole needed a little help and all he got was the B.... errr C team with injury and suspension of his buddies! I don't blame him for skipping it! :cry
 

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On Monday, Nadal officially passes Borg on the all-time list of weeks at #1. :clap I :heart: Bjorn, but it's funny how symbiotic they are…Nadal so often the one to take Bjorn's records.
 

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Moxie629 said:
On Monday, Nadal officially passes Borg on the all-time list of weeks at #1. :clap I :heart: Bjorn, but it's funny how symbiotic they are…Nadal so often the one to take Bjorn's records.

I lived Borg and no matter how long Nadal plays, he'll still come up short in so many ways when it comes to the true legend! Borg won the French Open and Wimbledon 3 straight years! That may never be done again even with more technological advances and human stamina! He was a true genius of the game who didn't rely on rackets and strings that helped; more heart really! Bjorn did all he could with a wood racket strung at 80+ lb.; a true pane of glass! He limited his play, but still won most of the time establishing records that may never be touched again! Federer obviously comes the closest with 5 Wimbledons in a row; 7 overall (tops with Sampras)! What puts Federer above Borg are those 5 USO's! Borg never got much of a sniff; outplayed, injured, unlucky! TCC rankings put Nadal ahead of Borg; sorry that's a joke even with his record! IMO, Nadal has been "up and down" throughout his career; hampered with injuries over the years that takes him out of the game for extended periods of time! Agassi breaks didn't impress me either; more impressed with sustain brilliance! Obviously Martina and Roger rank the highest in that respect IMO! :clap
 

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Fiero425 said:
Moxie629 said:
On Monday, Nadal officially passes Borg on the all-time list of weeks at #1. :clap I :heart: Bjorn, but it's funny how symbiotic they are…Nadal so often the one to take Bjorn's records.

I lived Borg and no matter how long Nadal plays, he'll still come up short in so many ways when it comes to the true legend! Borg won the French Open and Wimbledon 3 straight years! That may never be done again even with more technological advances and human stamina! He was a true genius of the game who didn't rely on rackets and strings that helped; more heart really! Bjorn did all he could with a wood racket strung at 80+ lb.; a true pane of glass! He limited his play, but still won most of the time establishing records that may never be touched again! Federer obviously comes the closest with 5 Wimbledons in a row; 7 overall (tops with Sampras)! What puts Federer above Borg are those 5 USO's! Borg never got much of a sniff; outplayed, injured, unlucky! TCC rankings put Nadal ahead of Borg; sorry that's a joke even with his record! IMO, Nadal has been "up and down" throughout his career; hampered with injuries over the years that takes him out of the game for extended periods of time! Agassi breaks didn't impress me either; more impressed with sustain brilliance! Obviously Martina and Roger rank the highest in that respect IMO! :clap

Borg was the man that brought me to tennis, so I'm with you there. I'm not clear on how you think Nadal comes up short, though, except for the sentimental. If you're laying the RG-Wimby combo on the line, that's one of the reasons that Nadal is in there. I agree that there was a sustained brilliance with Bjorn, but he did burn bright and fast, and then quit. Plus, he didn't even make an effort at the AO, and never won the USO. Then he walked away. I loved the guy, but it's one thing to sustain dominance for a short period of time, and it's another to keep finding a way, over different surfaces, different years, and different rivals. Not to mention not hanging it up in disgust, just because you lost.
 

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Seriously Fiero425, there is so much wrong with your post, it's not even funny. For starters, it would help us and yourself tremendously if you wouldn't spit your disgust about Nadal in just about every post you make which turns them (intentionally or not) into unbearable rubbish. Borg as a player impressed me way more than Nadal ever will, so that's where I agree with you, yet you won't see me talking down Nadal's achievements, let alone call them a joke. As much as I liked Bjorn, the guy had his flaws and certainly wasn't the god of thunder you make him out to be. While we're on it, Nadal didn't run away from his nemesis, in fact he finally overcame Djokovic. I guess I don't need to tell you what happened to Bjorn when McEnroe started to kick his ass on a consistent basis. So much for sustained brilliance...
 

brokenshoelace

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Fiero425 said:
Moxie629 said:
On Monday, Nadal officially passes Borg on the all-time list of weeks at #1. :clap I :heart: Bjorn, but it's funny how symbiotic they are…Nadal so often the one to take Bjorn's records.

Nadal has been "up and down" throughout his career; hampered with injuries over the years that takes him out of the game for extended periods of time!

As opposed to Borg who was up, then down for good. Borg didn't wait for injuries to take him out of the game for extended periods of time. He took himself out of the game for an eternal period of time.

PS: Nadal's "up and down" career still saw him win at least one major each year.
 

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Now that Nadal passes Borg in the weeks at number 1 list, I am seriously curious if he is able to approach McEnroe.
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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Didi said:
Seriously Fiero425, there is so much wrong with your post, it's not even funny. For starters, it would help us and yourself tremendously if you wouldn't spit your disgust about Nadal in just about every post you make which turns them (intentionally or not) into unbearable rubbish. Borg as a player impressed me way more than Nadal ever will, so that's where I agree with you, yet you won't see me talking down Nadal's achievements, let alone call them a joke. As much as I liked Bjorn, the guy had his flaws and certainly wasn't the god of thunder you make him out to be. While we're on it, Nadal didn't run away from his nemesis, in fact he finally overcame Djokovic. I guess I don't need to tell you what happened to Bjorn when McEnroe started to kick his ass on a consistent basis. So much for sustained brilliance...

McEnroe had nothing to do with borg retiring..if you don't know that you need to do some research so you avoid looking silly.
 

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JesuslookslikeBorg. said:
Didi said:
Seriously Fiero425, there is so much wrong with your post, it's not even funny. For starters, it would help us and yourself tremendously if you wouldn't spit your disgust about Nadal in just about every post you make which turns them (intentionally or not) into unbearable rubbish. Borg as a player impressed me way more than Nadal ever will, so that's where I agree with you, yet you won't see me talking down Nadal's achievements, let alone call them a joke. As much as I liked Bjorn, the guy had his flaws and certainly wasn't the god of thunder you make him out to be. While we're on it, Nadal didn't run away from his nemesis, in fact he finally overcame Djokovic. I guess I don't need to tell you what happened to Bjorn when McEnroe started to kick his ass on a consistent basis. So much for sustained brilliance...

McEnroe had nothing to do with Borg retiring..if you don't know that you need to do some research so you avoid looking silly.

Thanks! People love repeating that same silly notion that McEnroe ran Borg out of the game! That is so ridiculous! They don't realize Borg turned pro at 14 and was actually seeded highly at Wimbledon as a 15 y.o. in '73 due to the men's strike! I just ignore them since I was watching the entire time! No one player made Bjorn leave the game; sustained excellence was the culprit, and he was totally burned out! People just aren't accustomed to seeing someone ranked #1 or #2 in the world leave the game! :clap :clap :clap
 

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McEnroe taking over from Bjorn at the top presented Borg with a huge problem: commit to the game and redouble his efforts to get back to the top - or take a break and lick his wounds. Borg was burnt out - but Mac's ascendance had a huge effect on him too. He never meant to retire in 1981, and in fact played Monte Carlo in 1982 and 1983, and Stuttgart in 1984, but he wasn't up to putting in the hard yards needed to stay near the top.

So it was a bit of both, I think: he was mentally burnt out in 1981, but McEnroe's beating him to the top titles pushed him over the edge...
 

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Kieran said:
McEnroe taking over from Bjorn at the top presented Borg with a huge problem: commit to the game and redouble his efforts to get back to the top - or take a break and lick his wounds. Borg was burnt out - but Mac's ascendance had a huge effect on him too. He never meant to retire in 1981, and in fact played Monte Carlo in 1982 and 1983, and Stuttgart in 1984, but he wasn't up to putting in the hard yards needed to stay near the top.

So it was a bit of both, I think: he was mentally burnt out in 1981, but McEnroe's beating him to the top titles pushed him over the edge...

But was still at the top of his game winning his last French Open over Lendl in '81; #6 and 4th in a row! Some would kill to have that on their resume as a parting gift from the tour! :clap :clap :clap
 

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Fiero425 said:
But was still at the top of his game winning his last French Open over Lendl in '81; #6 and 4th in a row! Some would kill to have that on their resume as a parting gift from the tour! :clap :clap :clap



They would, but who else would he have to beat in Paris? Clerc? Again? Vilas? Again?

Fact is, Lendl even showed that his days in Paris were getting tighter. A five set final there was not the usual parade he had in Ol' Paree. The younger set were encroaching all around. I think the 1980 Wimbledon final was his last great stand, and that match reminds me a little of the 2007 final, where Rafa - like Mac - was technically ready to beat the defending champ, but mentally he just wasn't there yet. Both lefties came back a year later and got the job done. In fairness to Fed, it precipitated a crisis but he didn't skulk off into retirement over it. He came back and won the US Open, then battled hard to win the 2009 Oz.

I like Borg, he was my first tennis hero, but he was gone in 1981, knackered and listless and the physical game he played had taken its toll. Also, his iron mentality was showing signs of creaking under the strain - and the strain was largely caused by the cocky upstart knocking him off his perch...
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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^^no it was not..McEnroe has bugger all to do with it, ok..burn out was happening but borg still wanted to play but not as much,

surely you know about the ITF forcing borg to play qualifying rounds for majors if he didn't commit to xyz number of events.?, the ITF forced borg into a corner and out of the game, with the ITF showing zero class but 100% sociopathic behaviour as they did so.

talk about a sports governing body repeatedly punching itself in the head..they were pathetic. it was an all time low, right up there with banning top players from majors for wanting to earn some money from the sport they were the best at.
 

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^^ I know all about that. They were idiots not to let him and I think nowadays we wouldn't get that scenario.

But to think that McEnroe's swift ownership of Bjorn at the top level had nothing to do with it is to misunderstand part of the reason why he was so burnt out in the first place...
 

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Hmm, regarding Borg, I think JLLB has it about right from what I recall.

Contrary to popular folklore, the 1981 Wimbledon/US Open losses to McEnroe per se did not cause Borg to stop playing slams. I do agree that it certainly may have looked like that to the average fan, since he never played a major again. But after all, he had lost to McEnroe and Connors at the US Open before - and he ended up never winning the US Open title. He quickly walked off the court at the 1981 US Open because he had received death threats. One came on Saturday before his semi match with Jimmy Connors, whom he easily dispatched, but Borg was not told about it till after the match. The second call threat came Sunday as Borg won the first set against McEnroe. They didn't tell Borg and his coach until after the match and security quickly whisked him away and he cancelled all personal appearances after that (Monday as well). Read more.

Though it seems to many that Borg retired in 1981 (because he never played a major again), he did continue to practice/play, and did not officially announce his retirement from professional tennis until January 1983. Why did Borg not play in any majors after the 1981 U.S. Open and retired in Jan 1983? Was it because he was intimidated by or scared of McEnroe, or felt he couldn't beat him because he lost to him at Wimbledon/US Open? Balderdash.

The real reason was that the ITF ruled that any player must participate in a minimum number of Grand Prix Tour sanctioned tournaments (I believe 8) in order to avoid having to play in the qualifying rounds at the Grand Slams. Borg, the four-time defending champion at Roland Garros, who won a then record six French Opens overall, and also won a record five straight Wimbledon Championships, did not feel like he should have to play in qualifiers under any circumstances. So, in 1982 he skipped the Grand Slams, rather than comply to the rule, and skipped other tournaments as well. For this reason, and because he was burnt out somewhat after playing professionally for 11-12 years (he turned professional at age 14 in 1971- won Davis Cup debut match at age 15 in 1972 - and never lost a DC singles match again post 1973), and wanted to reduce his schedule.

However, Borg continued training and playing in 1982 (non ITF/ATP events), and if anything, his game was actually getting better in some ways at 26. He became stronger and he was serving harder than he ever had before. He won four big money (non ITF/ATP) events in 1982. If you are still convinced that Borg could no longer handle McEnroe after the US Open in September in 1981, look at what happened in November 1982 in the Sydney Akai Gold Challenge Round Robin, on carpet, no less. And don't forget that the Akai tournament prize money fund at that time was bigger than the slams. Borg defeated the #1 ranked McEnroe, 3-6, 6-4, 7-5, 6-2. He also dismantled Ivan Lendl, who would become the #1 ranked player a few months later, 6-1, 6-4, 6-2, along with Vitas Gerulaitis 7-6 6-3 6-2. For that effort, Borg pocketed $150,000 plus a $30,000 gold racquet. The 1982 US Open winner's prize was $90,000.

After that, there wasn't a whole lot of motivation for him to play longer except in some exhibitions. Don't count his appearance in his backyard at Monte-Carlo where he played for fun. He had done almost everything of which he had thought himself capable, except for not winning a US Open, where it just didn't happen for him, despite making 4 finals. But he no longer had the relentless drive to keep him playing and also defy the tour organizers.

At the time, pro tennis was not as "professional", or organized as today. There was no single ATP tour, there was a lot of infighting between the various organizations trying to control the players, and this led to bans by tournaments and boycotts by the players. What do I mean by relentless drive in Borg's case? Simply, it didn't mean as much to him to lose anymore. Not to mention he was fed up with the whole s**t, everyone that wanted a piece of him, the organizations, media, and as a global superstar, being pestered by everyone all over the world with only his coach as a buffer, which often wasn't enough.

Borg said he used to absolutely hate to lose, but that after he lost Wimbledon in 1981, he wasn't upset and he was shocked that he wasn't upset. And at that point, he knew that "something" special in him had gone. He was almost relieved to lose. Call it what you will, spark, passion, desire, fight; without it, you are not the same. Sometimes an absence from the game for a time, as long as the absence is not overly long, helps some to rekindle the flame, but other times not. Borg essentially left the game near the top.

As Arthur Ashe once said, "he might have won the US Open, or even a Grand Slam, but by the time he left, the historical challenge didn't mean anything. He was bigger than the game, like Elvis or Elizabeth Taylor or somebody".

Here are some clips, albeit poor quality, of the Borg-McEnroe match in Sydney in Nov 1982.

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFXnTGqbwsU[/video]

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=918rp7Omjk0[/video]

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kger-33YtiY[/video]

My apologies if I've rambled on a bit... :)

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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No apologies needed, Masterclass, and thanks for those clips!

I wouldn't set huge store in the results of those exos, given how much Mac tried to persuade Borg to return to the tour. Borg's departure negatively affected McEnroe too. However, I didn't say Mac was the sole reason Borg scarpered. He was a large contributory factor though. Borg couldn't handle Mac in 1981 and needed to reboot his whole game to cope with him. The US Open final was fairly brutal once Mac got going. The effort required to get back to the top and the need for rest hastened Borgie away from mainstream tennis.

If he couldn't be best, he'd find it hard, and I don't think he believed he could ever be best again...