The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[Jelenafan]

All things being equal, an athlete competes when he can because he/she thrives on the competition. Roger/Rafa etc will play if they feel their body will hold up and because it's what they do. Roger will play enough tournaments this fall as long as his body feels OK, I can't see him just shutting down just because. At 36 he knows his window at playing at the top level can close up at anytime quite quickly.

I'm puzzled anyone can question Rogers planning for the year.
Roger's priority this year (clearly stated) was winning Majors, and he got two. It was a great season for him so I don't see double guessing what's he planned when it probably exceeded his and probably 99.99% of the tennis world's reasonable expectations. Since he probably never expected to be this close to #1, who could have forecasted/predicted that both Murray/Djokovic/Wawrinka would shut down/get injured when they did; it almost seems churlish to say Roger should have planned better to get Majors and to get to #1.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Roger's priority this year (clearly stated) was winning Majors, and he got two. .

Yes, he got two. But, what is the point? Most probably the diff will be same as what it was last October between Goat and Bull.

Generally, Fed is Master of not only tennis but also scheduling. However, it looks like he decided to play Montreal (as Murat said)
at the last minute as he noticed that there were lot of withdrawals from various other contenders and that too without proper prep,
in view of getting to #1. In the end he got 960 pts only in NA hard court season. On the other hand, if he had skipped Montreal
and went to Cincy with proper prep, there is a good chance that he might have won Cincy and USO for a total of 3000 pts.
The diff would then be one more than last year and also YE#1 would be his. Of course, all of this assumes that his back
issues got created due to playing without proper prep and would not have crept in otherwise. Anyway, it is easy to say
things in hindsight.

 

[Jelenafan]

I was responding to the comment of planning re: Roger : "He's fucked up badly enough with the worst decision of his career".

As to whether he also should have won Cincy and USO, I agree, it's easy to say things in hindsight.

My point is Roger planned his schedule for certain stated goals; his priority was to win Majors, but I guess winning 2 when your fans are convinced you should have won 3 AND the number 1 ranking is another can of worms entirely...

 

[DarthFed]

I was responding to the comment of planning re: Roger : "He's fucked up badly enough with the worst decision of his career".

As to whether he also should have won Cincy and USO, I agree, it's easy to say things in hindsight.

My point is Roger planned his schedule for certain stated goals; his priority was to win Majors, but I guess winning 2 when your fans are convinced you should have won 3 AND the number 1 ranking is another can of worms entirely...

You're right in that his goal all season was to be well rested to target the slams. But that all went out the window when he played Montreal and that's what you're clearly missing. He was obsessed with getting #1 as quickly as possible before the USO that he was willing to risk compromising his chances at the USO. He played on a much slower hard court than Cincy which is one of his best tournaments.

As mentioned he played without any preparation and clearly didn't play well at all so he was doing lots of running and playing a lot of long points. Proper prep and then playing just the lightning fast Cincy was so obviously the only thing he should've done. Even if Roger didn't get hurt at Montreal he would've risked clearly overplaying by the end of Cincy if he ended up doing well at both events. He took his eyes off the major battle and the result is he went from clear favorite at USO to basically handing Nadal the title on a silver platter. Trust me, he is no fool and he knows he screwed up BADLY. If he had won USO he'd have wrapped up the YE#1. And I said after Wimbledon that the only way Fed wouldn't be the favorite to be YE#1 is if he did poorly during the summer hard court season and Nadal won USO. Well, Fed made that a much greater possibility than he should have. His planning was so shortsighted it's frightening, still in disbelief he did what he did. Without doubt the most boneheaded decision of his career. And if Nadal catches up in slams you can circle this moment.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So, Rafa is 1860 points ahead of Roger in the race (in the rankings he is ahead by 1960, but has 100 points to defend in the rest of the season). Roger is slated to play in Shanghai, Basel, Bercy and London. Assuming all these events end up with Fedal finals (which is a reasonable possiblity assuming both are healthy and considering that so many have shut down for the season and the rest suck) and assuming Roger wins all of them, then he will gain 200+400+400+500 = 1500 points over Rafa. That is still not good enough to compensate the lead of 1860 by Rafa. This is not even taking into account that Rafa will play Beijing in addition to these four events.

So, Feddies just don't even think about #1.

However, as I said before this is no reason for Fed to shut down for the season assuming he is healthy.

 

[rafanoy1992]

If Federer wins both Shanghai and Basel, I have a feeling he will skip Bercy to prepare for the World Tour Finals.

I just do not see him play those many matches in a row going to the World Tour Finals.

As for Nadal, I would say Beijing will be a key tournament for him if he wants to keep his number 1 ranking (in terms of this year). He could gain 410 points there and the field should not be that strong with all the players ending their season.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

If Federer wins both Shanghai and Basel, I have a feeling he will skip Bercy to prepare for the World Tour Finals.

.

Federer has already skipped three Masters this year. If he skips one more, he won't get a share from the bonus pool (which is about a
million dollars). So, I don't see him skipping Bercy unless he is genuinely having health issues.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Federer has already skipped three Masters this year. If he skips one more, he won't get a share from the bonus pool (which is about a
million dollars). So, I don't see him skipping Bercy unless he is genuinely having health issues.

At this point, I do not think Federer cares about money at all at this point of his career.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

At this point, I do not think Federer cares about money at all at this point of his career.

Because Fed has so much money, u think he should not care about it. Actually, the people who have more money care more about money. Besides, this is like free money (he does not have to win Bercy or anything like that). There is a bonus pool prize money that is shared by the top 12 finished in YE ranking list provided they meet some requirements. One of them is to play at least six Masters for someone like Fed who has some exemptions.

 

[britbox]

Rankings - 11 September 2017

1 (1) Rafa Nadal(Spain) 9465
2 (3) Roger Federer(Switzerland) 7505
3 (2) Andy Murray(Britain) 6790
4 (6) Alexander Zverev(Germany) 4470
5 (7) Marin Cilic(Croatia) 4155
6 (5) Novak Djokovic(Serbia) 4125
7 (8) Dominic Thiem(Austria) 4030
8 (4) Stan Wawrinka(Switzerland) 3690
9 (9) Grigor Dimitrov(Bulgaria) 3575
10 (19) Pablo Carreno(Spain) 2855
11 (11) Milos Raonic(Canada) 2825
12 (14) David Goffin(Belgium) 2695
13 (13) Roberto Bautista(Spain) 2525
14 (10) Kei Nishikori(Japan) 2475
15 (32) Kevin Anderson(South Africa) 2470
16 (21) Sam Querrey(U.S.) 2445
17 (15) John Isner(U.S.) 2425
18 (12) Jo-Wilfried Tsonga(France) 2375
19 (18) Tomas Berdych(Czech Republic) 2355
20 (17) Nick Kyrgios(Australia) 2245
21 (16) Jack Sock(U.S.) 2175
22 (20) Lucas Pouille(France) 2030
23 (23) Gilles Muller(Luxembourg) 1920
24 (28) Juan Martin del Potro(Argentina) 1820
25 (24) Albert Ramos(Spain) 1815
26 (25) David Ferrer(Spain) 1615
27 (27) Mischa Zverev(Germany) 1594
28 (33) Diego Schwartzman(Argentina) 1585
29 (26) Fabio Fognini(Italy) 1545
30 (30) Richard Gasquet(France) 1390
31 (34) Adrian Mannarino(France) 1335
32 (29) Karen Khachanov(Russia) 1330
33 (31) Pablo Cuevas(Uruguay) 1325
34 (37) Philipp Kohlschreiber(Germany) 1305
35 (35) Feliciano Lopez(Spain) 1295
36 (22) Gael Monfils(France) 1285
37 (53) Andrey Rublev(Russia) 1233
38 (40) Paolo Lorenzi(Italy) 1190
39 (36) Robin Haase(Netherlands) 1165
40 (43) Fernando Verdasco(Spain) 1115
41 (41) Benoit Paire(France) 1085
42 (44) Yuichi Sugita(Japan) 1082
43 (39) Gilles Simon(France) 1075
44 (47) Chung Hyeon(South Korea) 1017
45 (46) Steve Johnson(U.S.) 1000
46 (42) Kyle Edmund(Britain) 992
47 (52) Viktor Troicki(Serbia) 965
48 (48) Aljaz Bedene(Britain) 958
49 (38) Ivo Karlovic(Croatia) 955
50 (45) Ryan Harrison(U.S.) 936
51 (69) Denis Shapovalov(Canada) 926
52 (64) Alexandr Dolgopolov(Ukraine) 921
53 (59) Leonardo Mayer(Argentina) 899
54 (49) Jan-Lennard Struff(Germany) 898
55 (56) Damir Dzumhur(Bosnia and Herzegovina) 891
56 (61) Borna Coric(Croatia) 876
57 (50) Joao Sousa(Portugal) 870
58 (51) Jared Donaldson(U.S.) 858
59 (55) Jiri Vesely(Czech Republic) 850
60 (57) Donald Young(U.S.) 830
61 (54) Daniil Medvedev(Russia) 819
62 (63) Lu Yen-Hsun(Taiwan) 796
63 (62) Nikoloz Basilashvili(Georgia) 794
64 (58) Horacio Zeballos(Argentina) 788
65 (60) Federico Delbonis(Argentina) 760
66 (65) Pierre-Hugues Herbert(France) 742
67 (71) Dudi Sela(Israel) 738
68 (67) Janko Tipsarevic(Serbia) 736
69 (74) Florian Mayer(Germany) 723
70 (73) Jordan Thompson(Australia) 717
71 (70) Frances Tiafoe(U.S.) 715
72 (82) Thomas Fabbiano(Italy) 701
73 (72) Guido Pella(Argentina) 692
74 (68) Rogerio Dutra Silva(Brazil) 688
75 (80) Malek Jaziri(Tunisia) 685
76 (76) Thomaz Bellucci(Brazil) 682
77 (66) Steve Darcis(Belgium) 681
78 (103) Mikhail Kukushkin(Kazakhstan) 643
79 (90) Victor Estrella(Dominican Republic) 641
80 (85) Dusan Lajovic(Serbia) 637
81 (77) Ernesto Escobedo(U.S.) 636
82 (78) Vasek Pospisil(Canada) 627
83 (87) Marius Copil(Romania) 622
84 (79) Jeremy Chardy(France) 620
85 (84) Norbert Gombos(Slovakia) 620
86 (81) Andreas Seppi(Italy) 611
87 (86) Denis Istomin(Uzbekistan) 609
88 (75) Andrey Kuznetsov(Russia) 606
89 (99) Evgeny Donskoy(Russia) 584
90 (107) Cedrik-Marcel Stebe(Germany) 580
91 (93) Nicolas Kicker(Argentina) 567
92 (96) Ruben Bemelmans(Belgium) 565
93 (91) Alessandro Giannessi(Italy) 560
94 (108) Taylor Fritz(U.S.) 554
95 (98) Laslo Djere(Serbia) 550
96 (100) Julien Benneteau(France) 545
97 (106) Peter Gojowczyk(Germany) 544
98 (105) Tennys Sandgren(U.S.) 540
99 (102) Marco Cecchinato(Italy) 539
100 (88) Blaz Kavcic(Slovenia) 539

 

[herios]

New career highs Septembers 11:

4.Alexander Zverev 20y
5. Marin Cilic 28y
10. Pablo Carenno-Busta 26y
16. Sam Querrey 29y
28. Diego Schwartzman 25y
37. Andrey Rublev 19y
42. Yuichi Sugita 28y
44. Hyeon Chung 21y
51. Denis Shapovalov 18y
56. Danir Dzumhur 25y
72. Thomas Fabiano 28y
98. Tennys Sandgren 26y

 

[GameSetAndMath]

He already has sole possession of YEC with 6. Only small reason to play this Fall is to add a 7th for some breathing room with Nole. Aside from that I'd rather he rest and come back pissed and ready. He's fucked up badly enough with the worst decision of his career.

Yep, I stand corrected. Last year, if Novak had won it, he would be sharing the record with Roger. Thanks to Andy that did not happen.
But, this is a good year to add some separation with no big name indoor HC player out there (although Cilic is good in this dept).

 

[DarthFed]

New career highs Septembers 11:

4.Alexander Zverev 20y
5. Marin Cilic 28y
10. Pablo Carenno-Busta 26y
16. Sam Querrey 29y
28. Diego Schwartzman 25y
37. Andrey Rublev 19y
42. Yuichi Sugita 28y
44. Hyeon Chung 21y
51. Denis Shapovalov 18y
56. Danir Dzumhur 25y
72. Thomas Fabiano 28y
98. Tennys Sandgren 26y

Thanks for posting, I figured there'd be quite a few with career highs after this USO.

 

[Jelenafan]

1 (1) Rafa Nadal(Spain) 9465
2 (3) Roger Federer(Switzerland) 7505
3 (2) Andy Murray(Britain) 6790
4 (6) Alexander Zverev(Germany) 4470
5 (7) Marin Cilic(Croatia) 4155
6 (5) Novak Djokovic(Serbia) 4125
7 (8) Dominic Thiem(Austria) 4030
8 (4) Stan Wawrinka(Switzerland) 3690
9 (9) Grigor Dimitrov(Bulgaria) 3575
10 (19) Pablo Carreno(Spain) 2855
11 (11) Milos Raonic(Canada) 2825
12 (14) David Goffin(Belgium) 2695
13 (13) Roberto Bautista(Spain) 2525
14 (10) Kei Nishikori(Japan) 2475
15 (32) Kevin Anderson(South Africa) 2470
16 (21) Sam Querrey(U.S.) 2445
17 (15) John Isner(U.S.) 2425
18 (12) Jo-Wilfried Tsonga(France) 2375
19 (18) Tomas Berdych(Czech Republic) 2355
20 (17) Nick Kyrgios(Australia) 2245

****************
Did any top 20 ATP player have a worse overall Major W-L record than Zverev? Just looking at the rankings other than Kyrgios I can't think of anyone else. Potentially we may have a #3 ranked tennis player in the World, once Murray's points slide off, whose best Major results in the year was one 4R.

 

[DarthFed]

I think the way it's shaped up this is the weakest performing #3-10 we are likely to have seen in a long time. Zverev will be great but he isn't there yet and we are likely to have Thiem at #4 and he so far is an underwhelming clay court specialist. Cilic can be dangerous but has been inconsistent and then we are looking at PCB, Dimitrov, Goffin, RBA, and Anderson or Querrey rounding out the top 10. Truly unbelievable.

 

[Moxie]

New career highs Septembers 11:

4.Alexander Zverev 20y
5. Marin Cilic 28y
10. Pablo Carenno-Busta 26y
16. Sam Querrey 29y
28. Diego Schwartzman 25y
37. Andrey Rublev 19y
42. Yuichi Sugita 28y
44. Hyeon Chung 21y
51. Denis Shapovalov 18y
56. Danir Dzumhur 25y
72. Thomas Fabiano 28y
98. Tennys Sandgren 26y

However much Darth wants to diss Zverev, it's a big achievement. Obviously, he floats up because top players are sinking due to injury lay-off. I'm also noting Rublev, Chung, Shapo, and the forgotten but sometimes dangerous Dzumhur. I was also a bit surprised that Cilic had never made it to #5.

 

[DarthFed]

How was I dissing Zverev exactly? Do you think in anything resembling a normal year his results are top 3 worthy?

 

[Moxie]

How was I dissing Zverev exactly? Do you think in anything resembling a normal year his results are top 3 worthy?

I just said he got there because others above him aren't defending points. You act all disgusted by his lack of finishes at Slams. Yes, you were dissing him. Own it. A ranking isn't a trophy. He'll have to justify it eventually. Ferrer has been #3 and so has Davydenko. It's about the points.

 

[DarthFed]

If dissing is telling it how it is then I dissed him. Yes, a guy who had results at majors of 3rd round, 1st round, 4th round, 2nd round are traditionally not #3. He won a couple MS events which is nice but still doesn't bridge that gap. No need to go on a witch hunt about it.

 

[Moxie]

If dissing is telling it how it is then I dissed him. Yes, a guy who had results at majors of 3rd round, 1st round, 4th round, 2nd round are traditionally not #3. He won a couple MS events which is nice but still doesn't bridge that gap. No need to go on a witch hunt about it.

It's not a witch-hunt, dude. It was a response. You tend to hold players to a high standard and slag them off a bit when they don't meet it. That's you. But give the kid a break. He's got the points from what he's done so far, and others are sinking like stones. He's 20, with a big up-side. It's not his fault he's at #4. I think it's almost worse on him, for the pressure. But I think he's up to the challenge.