herios
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The Fall of Rafael Nadal
- Thread starter ClayDeath
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the whole worlds loves Rafa.
they all want him to do well and compete hard. makes the tennis universe more exciting.
the world wants its gladiators to win, NOT get shredded to pieces time and again.
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I will say this again: go watch him play and pay $20,000 for a ringside seat to one of his matches to see him get shredded like a legless, hapless mosquito.
be our guest. go watch him play. we wont stop you.
as for me, I cant even bear to watch the highlights. it just shatters my heart.
he is my player but I refuse to watch him if he wont put in the work and the sacrifice to compete effectively.
he is farting around on the beaches of Cozumel even as you read this. he doesn't care to win anymore.
no work ethic + endless farting around + pitiful fitness + 25% of the ground game = hapless mosquito
Moxie
Multiple Major Winner
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Roger Federer is universally loved also.
his fans want him to go out there on to the battlefield, compete hard, and win too.
we all want our gladiators to win and NOT shredded to pieces like hapless mosquitoes time and again.
and to his credit, he is not walking away from the opportunity to get that 18th slam.
he could have stopped after hitting 14 majors but the man was going to try to stare down history.
that is what drives him. he is not done. he will fight to the end.
his fans want him to go out there on to the battlefield, compete hard, and win too.
we all want our gladiators to win and NOT shredded to pieces like hapless mosquitoes time and again.
and to his credit, he is not walking away from the opportunity to get that 18th slam.
he could have stopped after hitting 14 majors but the man was going to try to stare down history.
that is what drives him. he is not done. he will fight to the end.
gotta wonder about some of those Spanish legends like manolo Santana.
Santana says Rafa has difficulty winning the important points but he can win RG.
he is starting to sound like Moxie.
memo to Spanish legends: your man retired from the sport. he is on his retirement circuit.
he can win if he wants to. he is an all time great. he is also armed with a very serious and significant competitive advantage on clay. it is called deadly topspin.
but he doesn't care to win. he has no fitness and just about 25% of his ground game.
good luck winning 250 level clay event with that.
Santana says Rafa has difficulty winning the important points but he can win RG.
he is starting to sound like Moxie.
memo to Spanish legends: your man retired from the sport. he is on his retirement circuit.
he can win if he wants to. he is an all time great. he is also armed with a very serious and significant competitive advantage on clay. it is called deadly topspin.
but he doesn't care to win. he has no fitness and just about 25% of his ground game.
good luck winning 250 level clay event with that.
General, Cuevas beat Pella in the Rio Final,
Cuevas beat Nadal in the semis, Pella beat Thiem, who had beaten Nadal in the previous tournament in Buenos Aires.
Cuevas and Pella were both playing on the Challenger tour at the end of last year.
Pella beat Cuevas in the semis in Montevideo, Uruguay around the 20th of November.
These guys may be a tad better this year, but they aren't world beaters.
Rafa has to know his level is barely top 50 and make changes, or we might as well bid him farewell.
He can do it, but only if he wants to do it.
Sampras fell from #1 in the world in Nov 2000, to #17 in the world in August 2002 not having won a title since Wimbledon 2000, prior to winning his final tournament at the US Open.
Sampras said in talking about his Wimbledon 2002 defeat in the 2nd round to Switzerland's George Bastl ranked #72::
“One of the biggest low points I’ve had in my career,†Sampras said. “I just felt lost, no confidence. My coaching situation was a mess, and I just felt really sad with where my tennis was.â€
Sampras rehired his old coach Annacone, and Annacone basically told Sampras to forget about all the talk about him being finished and remind himself who he was and re-ignite the fire in his belly.
Greg Rusedski, the huge-serving Briton who lost in five sets to Sampras in the third round of his winning US Open, and then volunteered that Sampras was a step and a half slower coming to the net than at his peak.
“It was what everybody was thinking, that he was a step and a half slow,†Rusedski said in the Open players lounge last week.
“But that gave him a little extra motivation, and he went through and proved us all wrong, and that’s why he’s a great champion.â€
There had been criticisms, that Sampras' new wife was to blame for Sampras' demise, but Sampras defended her.
"It was hard on her, and it wasn’t fair. I just met her at a time where I’d achieved everything and I didn’t have that hunger anymore. It wasn’t her. It was me.â€
“The Roddick match was a big match because I could save my body a little bit,†Sampras said. “It was a pretty comfortable match, and it helped me have a little bit left in the final.â€
After retiring, Sampras summed it up:
“No regrets, no, no, no,†Sampras said. “I mean not one. I play to win, and once that feeling went away and I wasn’t willing to do the work for a goal, that’s when I knew I had to face facts. |
"It wasn’t because I couldn’t play anymore. It was because emotionally I was done. "
"It wasn’t the plan: to win a major and end it. It just sort of happened that way, but most importantly it ended on my terms."
"And to look back on it, it’s a cool way to go out, to win your last one.â€
To me, Rafa can learn and relate exactly to those words from Pete.
Even if one no longer has the motivation, end it on your terms Rafa, go out fighting for it.
For Rafa I would think that fight has to come on the red clay of Roland Garros.
He's too great a champion to go out with a whimper.
Respectfully,
masterclass
Cuevas beat Nadal in the semis, Pella beat Thiem, who had beaten Nadal in the previous tournament in Buenos Aires.
Cuevas and Pella were both playing on the Challenger tour at the end of last year.
Pella beat Cuevas in the semis in Montevideo, Uruguay around the 20th of November.
These guys may be a tad better this year, but they aren't world beaters.
Rafa has to know his level is barely top 50 and make changes, or we might as well bid him farewell.
He can do it, but only if he wants to do it.
Sampras fell from #1 in the world in Nov 2000, to #17 in the world in August 2002 not having won a title since Wimbledon 2000, prior to winning his final tournament at the US Open.
Sampras said in talking about his Wimbledon 2002 defeat in the 2nd round to Switzerland's George Bastl ranked #72::
“One of the biggest low points I’ve had in my career,†Sampras said. “I just felt lost, no confidence. My coaching situation was a mess, and I just felt really sad with where my tennis was.â€
Sampras rehired his old coach Annacone, and Annacone basically told Sampras to forget about all the talk about him being finished and remind himself who he was and re-ignite the fire in his belly.
Greg Rusedski, the huge-serving Briton who lost in five sets to Sampras in the third round of his winning US Open, and then volunteered that Sampras was a step and a half slower coming to the net than at his peak.
“It was what everybody was thinking, that he was a step and a half slow,†Rusedski said in the Open players lounge last week.
“But that gave him a little extra motivation, and he went through and proved us all wrong, and that’s why he’s a great champion.â€
There had been criticisms, that Sampras' new wife was to blame for Sampras' demise, but Sampras defended her.
"It was hard on her, and it wasn’t fair. I just met her at a time where I’d achieved everything and I didn’t have that hunger anymore. It wasn’t her. It was me.â€
“The Roddick match was a big match because I could save my body a little bit,†Sampras said. “It was a pretty comfortable match, and it helped me have a little bit left in the final.â€
After retiring, Sampras summed it up:
“No regrets, no, no, no,†Sampras said. “I mean not one. I play to win, and once that feeling went away and I wasn’t willing to do the work for a goal, that’s when I knew I had to face facts. |
"It wasn’t because I couldn’t play anymore. It was because emotionally I was done. "
"It wasn’t the plan: to win a major and end it. It just sort of happened that way, but most importantly it ended on my terms."
"And to look back on it, it’s a cool way to go out, to win your last one.â€
To me, Rafa can learn and relate exactly to those words from Pete.
Even if one no longer has the motivation, end it on your terms Rafa, go out fighting for it.
For Rafa I would think that fight has to come on the red clay of Roland Garros.
He's too great a champion to go out with a whimper.
Respectfully,
masterclass
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great post but I would differ on a couple of points: first if he cant win even 250 level events on clay then RG is completely out of the question. he has no fitness.
secondly, his game is showing signs of even more dramatic deterioration. so now instead of having barely 30% of once great ground game, he has barely 25% of his ground game.
that means he is not even top 100 in real terms. in nominal terms he is #7 but that is a completely bogus rank.
nobody can possibly be that stupid. he knows exactly what he is doing and what he has been doing.
he is out of the sport without being out of the sport. it brings him more wealth than ever before and his name is bigger than ever before. his popularity is soaring.
many of his endorsements are for a lifetime so he stands to make even more money. this man will be worth over $1 billion one day.
he stays for the spotlight but he cant win anything. absolutely nothing. and that is exactly what I said last year. I said very clearly that I am not even willing to give him rio with his current rate of decline. he has let everything go. only thing left is the lip service.
2016 is transpiring fast. he has not won any title on the hard courts since 2013. would you go fart around on hard courts if you had any sense at all. the answer is NO. you would go get on clay. clay is the wellspring from which he flows. only clay can start to fix his ground game.
clay to hard courts transition is the easiest for the great players. he can still play indian wells but he should have gotten on clay. he should have gone to brasil open.
it is not like he has any chance at all at indian wells. he has 100% probability of getting his ass handed to him in the first 2 rounds at indian wells.
he cant even get the ball back on serve so how the hell can he even win a match or two, let alone string together a few wins.
winning any event is completely out of the question. it is not going to happen. even hamburg is going to be difficult.
more later.
nalbandian is no fool either: he said very clearly that it is clay or the exit.
from the game's greatest gladiator to a hapless insect that can crushed by just about anybody. I bet serena can destroy him.
with the fitness he is bringing and the game he has now, some top women would give him a good fight.
fight rafa fight. go fix the fitness and then go out there on the battlefield to win.
Basically, I don't think we differ much at all general.
In the second paragraph of my post, I basically said that he is losing to players just above Challenger level,
that if he doesn't make changes we should bid him farewell, and he can only change if he wants to change.
This speaks to his lower playing level and his apparent lack of motivation.
The rest of my post compared his situation to that of Sampras. Now Nadal is #5, not #17, like Sampras was, but quibbling about difference in ranking or perceived ranking is pointless.
Nadal can go down to #10, or #17 at this rate like Sampras, or #50; the question is, will he fight back like Sampras did? Or will he meekly step away from the game?
My latter statements about Nadal going out fighting, winning at RG, are based on him wanting to change. No changes, and yes, he will have trouble winning 250 events.
Mind you, I think Rafa's path to better play may be more difficult than Sampras'.
Nadal's game relies on him being fit and strong to engage his topspin game, and that's going to take a lot of work.
If and once he gets that back, his confidence will come back when he makes his shots,. doesn't get tired after a set or two, and wins matches he has been losing, and raises his level enough to challenge the better and best players.
But again, he has to want it badly enough. Otherwise, forget any heroic comeback scenarios.
Looking at things now, it's hard for many to be optimistic, that's why I related Pete's story.
We will see what happens. I know life does not always have fairy tale happy endings.
Anyway, I think my previous post said everything I wanted to say about this topic.
Respectfully,
masterclass
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Basically, I don't think we differ much at all general.
In the second paragraph of my post, I basically said that he is losing to players just above Challenger level,
that if he doesn't make changes we should bid him farewell, and he can only change if he wants to change.
This speaks to his lower playing level and his apparent lack of motivation.
The rest of my post compared his situation to that of Sampras. Now Nadal is #5, not #17, like Sampras was, but quibbling about difference in ranking or perceived ranking is pointless.
Nadal can go down to #10, or #17 at this rate like Sampras, or #50; the question is, will he fight back like Sampras did? Or will he meekly step away from the game?
My latter statements about Nadal going out fighting, winning at RG, are based on him wanting to change. No changes, and yes, he will have trouble winning 250 events.
Mind you, I think Rafa's path to better play may be more difficult than Sampras'.
Nadal's game relies on him being fit and strong to engage his topspin game, and that's going to take a lot of work.
If and once he gets that back, his confidence will come back when he makes his shots,. doesn't get tired after a set or two, and wins matches he has been losing, and raises his level enough to challenge the better and best players.
But again, he has to want it badly enough. Otherwise, forget any heroic comeback scenarios.
Looking at things now, it's hard for many to be optimistic, that's why I related Pete's story.
We will see what happens. I know life does not always have fairy tale happy endings.
Anyway, I think my previous post said everything I wanted to say about this topic.
Respectfully,
masterclass
awesome post general.
general masterclass makes a great point that does not need to be missed here:
heavy topspin game requires great physical strength and supreme overall fitness and endurance.
and even more so for rafa than any other player who has ever played the sport. his style of play is the most demanding in the history of the sport.
additionally the heavy topspin game requires constant practice. you have to hit the ball nearly 7 days a week to stay sharp and to keep your strokes tuned up. that is in addition to your work on the fitness front.
your ground game will leave you if you don't go out there and hit the ball 6-7 hours a day on most days.
only way to fully understand that is if you have actually had a heavy topspin game and you played and competed at a reasonably high level.
heavy topspin game requires great physical strength and supreme overall fitness and endurance.
and even more so for rafa than any other player who has ever played the sport. his style of play is the most demanding in the history of the sport.
additionally the heavy topspin game requires constant practice. you have to hit the ball nearly 7 days a week to stay sharp and to keep your strokes tuned up. that is in addition to your work on the fitness front.
your ground game will leave you if you don't go out there and hit the ball 6-7 hours a day on most days.
only way to fully understand that is if you have actually had a heavy topspin game and you played and competed at a reasonably high level.
mrzz
Hater
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I just saw Cuevas playing two days in a row here in São Paulo, and I must say the guy is playing pretty good. He is now around #25 in the world and there's a reason to it. Last year he got some good results on clay too, for example finals against Federer in Istambul, and a fight with Nadal in Rio, also won SP. Yes, this is small potatoes, but after seeing him play I am pretty sure that, on clay, he can hang around with anyone bar Djokovic right now. If he does not feel the pressure, I can see him going by a lot higher seeds on the clay masters. Against Ferrer and Thiem I guess it is a coin toss, and apart from those two I give him a clear upper hand (remember, on clay only) against anyone from #6 onwards.
I know that Nadal used to destroy this kind of player, all I am saying that he is more than an average Joe (or an average Pablo). About the challenger, remember also that for a South American, apart from February all ATP tournaments are in a different hemisphere...
one of the topics that can be debated now is this: will Rafa resurface on the senior tour.
my own sense is that the answer is YES. they all miss the sport and they pretty much all come back to enjoy the spotlight and to check into that tennis culture again with their fellow players on the tour.
I cant think of any retired player that did not give the senior circuit a try unless the injuries forced them out of the game completely.
my guess is that Rafa will give it a try anyway but he will find it hard to win there too. so I don't know how long that adventure will last.
my own sense is that the answer is YES. they all miss the sport and they pretty much all come back to enjoy the spotlight and to check into that tennis culture again with their fellow players on the tour.
I cant think of any retired player that did not give the senior circuit a try unless the injuries forced them out of the game completely.
my guess is that Rafa will give it a try anyway but he will find it hard to win there too. so I don't know how long that adventure will last.
More useless garbage from the Rafa camp:
Uncle tony says "tennis never made changes to favor Rafa".
utter horse crap.
Uncle tony says "tennis never made changes to favor Rafa".
utter horse crap.
Lip service and pathetic excuses are without end.
Why don't you just go work hard like everybody else is doing?
No work ethic equals no wins.
But evidently it doe equal endless lip service.
Why don't you just go work hard like everybody else is doing?
No work ethic equals no wins.
But evidently it doe equal endless lip service.
I keep hoping and praying anyway but all I see is a continued and more dramatic free fall.
And endless lip service and excuses.
And endless lip service and excuses.
