The Coach Effect

[the AntiPusher]

RE: General tennis news

I can see his younger bro being a much better coach than JMac.

Pmac cannot ever get his mouth unglued from Roger's backside.. its Fed only for him

Hey, everyone has a favorite...at least Pmac does not have the huge ego like the brother, and he does not deal in absolutes. Jmac constantly says things like " he is the best I have ever...." or" the best volley I have ever..." You know what I mean. Jmac usually does not know what he is saying. Pmac can sit back and analyse the whole thing better in my opinion. Jmac gets carried away too easily.

Can't we agree that they're both terrible?

Relax BS.. John Madden had his Brett Farve .. Johnny Mac has Rafa Nadal:clap

 

[Kieran]

RE: General tennis news

^AP, not talking about playing at all. Not applicable. Lots of good coaches out there who were average at best in their playing days.(Gullikson, Annacone, Norman etc...) I am only saying Pmac is more of a coach material than Jmac. Just a personal opinion.

Murat.. Johnny Mac sees something extranodinary special in Nadal. I have watch him since I was a little kid. I saw how he went through his transformation from the super brat but he was a super teenager like Rafa was. Johnny Mac marveled at Sampras and Roger's talents but he sees the ultimate figther in Nadal. Rafa wasnt natural gifted as a net volleyer but his touch as really gotten so brillant at times which astonishes JMac. What's wrong with that.

I saw all that in young Ralph too! And I loved Pete and admired Wodge - but I ain't expecting to replace uncle T! :snigger

 

[GameSetAndMath]

RE: General tennis news

^AP, not talking about playing at all. Not applicable. Lots of good coaches out there who were average at best in their playing days.(Gullikson, Annacone, Norman etc...) I am only saying Pmac is more of a coach material than Jmac. Just a personal opinion.

In my opinion PMac has run the USTA into the ground. He's the last person I'd be talking to.

I think it is rather harsh to blame one person for the current state of tennis in the USA.:nono

Well, he's not the only one but he hasn't done diddly either.

Anyone who gets the job of GM of Player Development in the US of A has an amazingly hard job and a very uphill battle. PM has tried some stuff, some I agree with, some I don't but either way, it will not be easy to turn it around no matter who heads the position. Tennis , popularity wise, is behind ice hockey in the States and half the states know ice only as something you put in a drink.

Kids are playing other sports. Team sports are always more attractive. I have my personal opinions on why that is but either way, tennis is not way up there. Not a lot of money to be made. Even a high school basketball player travels with a team bus that has a team doctor and everything. A tennis player pays everything out of pocket. Hard for families. Even when you are a player ranked around a hundred, you are constantly struggling to break even, with all your expenses.

In these circumstances, it is a tough job to make tennis attractive to the masses in the States. Maybe a superstar type player who could capture the imagination of the nation could have helped but I don't see one in the near future.

By the way, I totally do not agree with PM's position regarding junior tennis with lighter balls and smaller courts till the age 10. I would be Ok with age 6-7 , but 10 is too old.

I have an idea. If only we can force the sale of all NBA teams and NFL teams and
Ice Hockey teams to foreign countries ..........................

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: General tennis news

^AP, not talking about playing at all. Not applicable. Lots of good coaches out there who were average at best in their playing days.(Gullikson, Annacone, Norman etc...) I am only saying Pmac is more of a coach material than Jmac. Just a personal opinion.

Murat.. Johnny Mac sees something extranodinary special in Nadal. I have watch him since I was a little kid. I saw how he went through his transformation from the super brat but he was a super teenager like Rafa was. Johnny Mac marveled at Sampras and Roger's talents but he sees the ultimate figther in Nadal. Rafa wasnt natural gifted as a net volleyer but his touch as really gotten so brillant at times which astonishes JMac. What's wrong with that.

But I have never said anything is wrong with that brother, except with Jmac, it is more likely to change every 5 years or so. He follows the zeitgeist. When Pete was passed by Roger he was like "No offense to Pete, but...etc" . Exactly the same way when Rafa made it to the top he was like " Roger was great, but...etc" . He has a problem judging players in their own era and leaving it at that...Like Roger HAS to be better than Pete, Rafa HAS to be better than Roger...I think there was even a brief Nole moment in 2011, where he has never seen anyone play tennis like Nole!

All I am saying is he should just relax and that I am not sure he is a great coach material.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: General tennis news

I can see his younger bro being a much better coach than JMac.

Pmac cannot ever get his mouth unglued from Roger's backside.. its Fed only for him

Hey, everyone has a favorite...at least Pmac does not have the huge ego like the brother, and he does not deal in absolutes. Jmac constantly says things like " he is the best I have ever...." or" the best volley I have ever..." You know what I mean. Jmac usually does not know what he is saying. Pmac can sit back and analyse the whole thing better in my opinion. Jmac gets carried away too easily.

Can't we agree that they're both terrible?

Relax BS.. John Madden had his Brett Farve .. Johnny Mac has Rafa Nadal:clap

Then what's wrong with P Mac having his Roger

 

[Moxie]

RE: General tennis news

Pmac cannot ever get his mouth unglued from Roger's backside.. its Fed only for him

Hey, everyone has a favorite...at least Pmac does not have the huge ego like the brother, and he does not deal in absolutes. Jmac constantly says things like " he is the best I have ever...." or" the best volley I have ever..." You know what I mean. Jmac usually does not know what he is saying. Pmac can sit back and analyse the whole thing better in my opinion. Jmac gets carried away too easily.

Can't we agree that they're both terrible?

Relax BS.. John Madden had his Brett Farve .. Johnny Mac has Rafa Nadal:clap

Then what's wrong with P Mac having his Roger

Nothing! Personally, I kind of like it that they can't help but have preferences, like all of us, and that you can spot them. Why not?

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: General tennis news

^AP, not talking about playing at all. Not applicable. Lots of good coaches out there who were average at best in their playing days.(Gullikson, Annacone, Norman etc...) I am only saying Pmac is more of a coach material than Jmac. Just a personal opinion.

Murat.. Johnny Mac sees something extranodinary special in Nadal. I have watch him since I was a little kid. I saw how he went through his transformation from the super brat but he was a super teenager like Rafa was. Johnny Mac marveled at Sampras and Roger's talents but he sees the ultimate figther in Nadal. Rafa wasnt natural gifted as a net volleyer but his touch as really gotten so brillant at times which astonishes JMac. What's wrong with that.

If JMac simply acknowledges Nadal's improvement at the net and leaves it at that, there would be nothing wrong with it. Instead, he says Nadal is a better volleyer than Federer, which, realistically, is one of the most absurd observations a professional tennis analyst can make. The hyperbole is what's wrong.

As far as Mac seeing something extraordinary in Nadal, well, so does everyone else. It's the way he chooses to articulate it that's the problem. Just too over the top, too much of a prisoner of the moment.

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: General tennis news

I can see his younger bro being a much better coach than JMac.

Pmac cannot ever get his mouth unglued from Roger's backside.. its Fed only for him

Hey, everyone has a favorite...at least Pmac does not have the huge ego like the brother, and he does not deal in absolutes. Jmac constantly says things like " he is the best I have ever...." or" the best volley I have ever..." You know what I mean. Jmac usually does not know what he is saying. Pmac can sit back and analyse the whole thing better in my opinion. Jmac gets carried away too easily.

Can't we agree that they're both terrible?

Wait just a second. Jmac has arguably the best hands the game of Tennis has ever seen.. He played against probably now the 2nd best era of great players and he was right there in the Mix. Let's dont equate his over the top announcing with his tennis genius.. PMac has won anything and really wasnt that good of a Davis Cup captain.IMO He could add some value to Rafa's tennis psyche.. Let's dont judge the guy because we don't like him

What does the fact that he was a great player and an immense talent have anything to do with how good or bad he is at commentating? Johnny Mac is a terrible, terrible commentator. Him being one of the greatest talents this game has ever seen doesn't change that fact.

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: General tennis news

Hey, everyone has a favorite...at least Pmac does not have the huge ego like the brother, and he does not deal in absolutes. Jmac constantly says things like " he is the best I have ever...." or" the best volley I have ever..." You know what I mean. Jmac usually does not know what he is saying. Pmac can sit back and analyse the whole thing better in my opinion. Jmac gets carried away too easily.

Can't we agree that they're both terrible?

Relax BS.. John Madden had his Brett Farve .. Johnny Mac has Rafa Nadal:clap

Then what's wrong with P Mac having his Roger

Nothing! Personally, I kind of like it that they can't help but have preferences, like all of us, and that you can spot them. Why not?

Because it makes for some pretty awful commentating.

 

[Kieran]

RE: General tennis news

McEnroe is not a terrible commentator, but he's too mouthy to be credible as a candidate to coach a top star. He has a good personality for TV, but his ability as a player, too, means nothing when it comes to either TV or coaching.

Uncle T wasn't a great player, but he is a great coach. Lennart Bergelin too. There's a history of men who weren't great players but who knew the game inside out, and maybe Harry Hopman is the best of them, going back a bit...

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: General tennis news

McEnroe is not a terrible commentator

Respectfully disagree.

As far as the Uncle Toni stuff, yeah, I'm sick of even talking about it. In what world does a man who led a player to 13 slams, a career grand slam, a gold medal, a record number of Masters 1000 events, and overall one of the most successful careers we've ever seen get so much flack every time his PLAYER (emphasis on player, since it's not Uncle Toni who's out there making unforced errors) goes through a bad patch?

 

[Kieran]

RE: General tennis news

McEnroe is not a terrible commentator

Respectfully disagree.

As far as the Uncle Toni stuff, yeah, I'm sick of even talking about it. In what world does a man who led a player to 13 slams, a career grand slam, a gold medal, a record number of Masters 1000 events, and an overall one of the most successful careers we've ever seen get so much flack every time his PLAYER (emphasis on player, since it's not Uncle Toni who's out there making unforced errors) goes through a bad patch?

You're missing the point here: what kinda coach can't even pick a pair of knickers to fit his player? That's why he should be sacked!

Success? Bah.

Wedgies? :nono

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: General tennis news

McEnroe is not a terrible commentator

Respectfully disagree.

As far as the Uncle Toni stuff, yeah, I'm sick of even talking about it. In what world does a man who led a player to 13 slams, a career grand slam, a gold medal, a record number of Masters 1000 events, and an overall one of the most successful careers we've ever seen get so much flack every time his PLAYER (emphasis on player, since it's not Uncle Toni who's out there making unforced errors) goes through a bad patch?

I think the flack he gets is from folks that don't believe he can achieve similar success with player X. Can he replicate what he did with Rafa or come even close to it, or Rafa is just a special circumstance, a relative, something deeper than a coach-player relationship?

I think Toni is a very smart fellow and he would make a great coach to player X as well, but without evidence of it, some folks will never be convinced.

 

[Kieran]

RE: General tennis news

I don't know what people need to be convinced of. He took a right-handed kid and brought him all the way through the ranks to be a lefty legend, and winner on all surfaces. What he's achieved is amazing.

Some guys coach a kid so far - but are unable to go further.

And others take an already great player and improve them, but most likely wouldn't take a raw rookie three year old to greatness. Uncle T did both...

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: General tennis news

McEnroe is not a terrible commentator

Respectfully disagree.

As far as the Uncle Toni stuff, yeah, I'm sick of even talking about it. In what world does a man who led a player to 13 slams, a career grand slam, a gold medal, a record number of Masters 1000 events, and an overall one of the most successful careers we've ever seen get so much flack every time his PLAYER (emphasis on player, since it's not Uncle Toni who's out there making unforced errors) goes through a bad patch?

I think the flack he gets is from folks that don't believe he can achieve similar success with player X. Can he duplicate what he did with Rafa or come even close to it, or Rafa is just a special circumstance, a relative, something deeper than a coach-player relationship?

I think Toni is a very smart fellow and he would make a great coach to player X as well, but without evidence of it, some folks will never be convinced.

My answer to that, and keep in mind this isn't directed at you, would be, who cares? I honestly couldn't care less whether Toni could replicate that success with another player. He probably couldn't (because how many Rafael Nadals are out there?), but it doesn't change a thing.

With Nadal, he's extremely successful, and has always been (it's not like it's been ages since the last time they won a major or a tournament).

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: General tennis news

I don't disagree with you. I kind of look at Toni like Alex Ferguson. I know he coached Aberdeen (successfully too) but to me, he is Manchester United. And very successful. He does not need to come back and coach West Brom to championship to convince me he is good.

 

[Federberg]

RE: General tennis news

I'm not sure that what Uncle Toni has done is replicable with another player, so I would disagree with the Alex Ferguson comparison. But.. good grief! What he's done is exceptional. I would place a much higher value and trust in the abilities of a Magnus Norman. As for JMac? I have real doubts about his capabilities as a coach. The fit would have to be perfect, and I can't think of a player right now that would fit. I don't think Rafa would work despite - I'm sure - the mutual respect. If any current player could work, my guess would be Roger actually..

 

[Denis]

RE: General tennis news

I don't know what people need to be convinced of. He took a right-handed kid and brought him all the way through the ranks to be a lefty legend, and winner on all surfaces. What he's achieved is amazing.

Some guys coach a kid so far - but are unable to go further.

And others take an already great player and improve them, but most likely wouldn't take a raw rookie three year old to greatness. Uncle T did both...

There is absolutely no basis for these claims. This sounds like a coach trying to make the role of a coach more important than it is. Rafa Nadal is the all time great, there is absolutely no proof Uncle Toni has anything to do with his abilities on the tennis court. Perhaps Rafa would have won more if he would have played with his right hand. Toni's contribution is pure speculation, for all I am concerned. It's nothing like managing a football team, where you actually do make decisions independently that have an impact on the outcome of a match.

What we do know is what Uncle Toni says in press conferences, and that usually self-serving, moronic nonsense.

 

[brokenshoelace]

RE: General tennis news

I don't know what people need to be convinced of. He took a right-handed kid and brought him all the way through the ranks to be a lefty legend, and winner on all surfaces. What he's achieved is amazing.

Some guys coach a kid so far - but are unable to go further.

And others take an already great player and improve them, but most likely wouldn't take a raw rookie three year old to greatness. Uncle T did both...

There is absolutely no basis for these claims. This sounds like a coach trying to make the role of a coach more important than it is. Rafa Nadal is the all time great, there is absolutely no proof Uncle Toni has anything to do with his abilities on the tennis court. Perhaps Rafa would have won more if he would have played with his right hand. Toni's contribution is pure speculation, for all I am concerned. It's nothing like managing a football team, where you actually do make decisions independently that have an impact on the outcome of a match.

What we do know is what Uncle Toni says in press conferences, and that usually self-serving, moronic nonsense.

Uh...Nadal didn't teach himself to play tennis and judging by Rafael's book, Toni is not merely a cheerleader and has helped shape his game, develop game plans, and helped him work on weaknesses. Of course, it's Rafa who should and does get 95% of the credit, but to say that "there is no proof that Toni has anything to do with Nadal's abilities on a tennis court" is perplexing. Why do you think he's called a "coach"?

PS: I always maintain that a coach's role is occasionally overstated. After all, it's the player being alone out there doing all the work. But on the practice court, in the locker room, etc...the coach does play an important role. Because keep in mind, by the same token, there is never any proof that any coach has anything to do with a player's results. Can you provide any proof for Vajda's contributions? That doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Denis]

RE: General tennis news

I don't know what people need to be convinced of. He took a right-handed kid and brought him all the way through the ranks to be a lefty legend, and winner on all surfaces. What he's achieved is amazing.

Some guys coach a kid so far - but are unable to go further.

And others take an already great player and improve them, but most likely wouldn't take a raw rookie three year old to greatness. Uncle T did both...

There is absolutely no basis for these claims. This sounds like a coach trying to make the role of a coach more important than it is. Rafa Nadal is the all time great, there is absolutely no proof Uncle Toni has anything to do with his abilities on the tennis court. Perhaps Rafa would have won more if he would have played with his right hand. Toni's contribution is pure speculation, for all I am concerned. It's nothing like managing a football team, where you actually do make decisions independently that have an impact on the outcome of a match.

What we do know is what Uncle Toni says in press conferences, and that usually self-serving, moronic nonsense.

Uh...Nadal didn't teach himself to play tennis and judging by Rafael's book, Toni is not merely a cheerleader and has helped shape his game, develop game plans, and helped him work on weaknesses. Of course, it's Rafa who should and does get 95% of the credit, but to say that "there is no proof that Toni has anything to do with Nadal's abilities on a tennis court" is perplexing. Why do you think he's called a "coach"?

PS: I always maintain that a coach's role is occasionally overstated. After all, it's the player being alone out there doing all the work. But on the practice court, in the locker room, etc...the coach does play an important role. Because keep in mind, by the same token, there is never any proof that any coach has anything to do with a player's results. Can you provide any proof for Vajda's contributions? That doesn't mean they don't exist.

I actually agree with this. Seems like a fair assessment of the importance of a coach. Point is with tennis, it overwhelmingly up to the player itself. Giving Toni 5% of the credit is a bit rich though, in my assessment. But if it works for Rafa, that's all that matters.