Swiss Indoors 2017, Basel, ATP 500

[Carol]

I see all the matches go to a three sets, it’s seems very competitive
Meanwhile Shapo, Thiem and Zverev are going through a tough time....

 

[Moxie]

Actually, recently I heard an interesting idea mentioned by a commentator (forgot who it was) about Hawk-Eye. Hawk-Eye has a margin of error. Currently, we use the Hawk-Eye system assuming that it is always correct.

A better way of using Hawk-Eye is as follows: A call is made on the court. A player challenges it. They should use the Hawk-Eye. If Hawk-Eye can answer with absolute certainty, then use the result of Hawk-Eye; if not (i.e., if the ball could be either in or out both being possibilities based on the margin of error), simply retain the original call made on the court (sort of like what happens in NFL; if you want to change the ruling made on the field based on a video review, it should be demonstrable without a doubt that changing the decision is justified).

Finally, many people think that Hawk-Eye is actually using the video that it recorded. No, it does not. It actually calculates (based on the trajectory of the ball and based on available videos taken from different angle) the landing spot of the ball (when direct evidence is not
available).

I've always known there was a margin of error, primarily because the reason they don't use it on clay is that the margin of error is too great, not that there is no margin of error at all on other surfaces. I often wonder, when the ball is in or out by a whisker that no one mentions the margin of error. However, I think that all parties have agreed to let Hawk-eye be the final arbiter, which is fine, as it gives players closure on the point, and they move on. I respectfully suggest that your suggestion would likely lead to more arguing and time-wasting, and more disgruntled players.

As to the other point, I thought people did know that it's not actual video. You can tell by looking at it that it's a computer model. H-E isn't perfect, but it definitely works better than the old system, where the MoE was all human.

 

[Moxie]

Couldn't watch the match. What happened to Roger in the first? Just a v. good Mannarino?

 

[Front242]

Couldn't watch the match. What happened to Roger in the first? Just a v. good Mannarino?

Mannarino's a frustrating guy to play against. Didn't appear to be pushing as much as usual today. Quite like his game when he's being aggressive. The main standout stat was only 53% first serves in over the match for Roger, which was poor even though he hit 12 aces.

 

[Moxie]

Mannarino's a frustrating guy to play against. Didn't appear to be pushing as much as usual today. Quite like his game when he's being aggressive. The main standout stat was only 53% first serves in over the match for Roger, which was poor even though he hit 12 aces.

Thanks for that, Front.

 

[isabelle]

Cilic /Delpo should be good, I wish Delpo good luck, hope he can manage to win

 

[britbox]

Results from the Basel International Men's Singles Quarterfinal matches on Friday

1-Roger Federer (Switzerland) beat 7-Adrian Mannarino (France) 4-6 6-1 6-3
2-Marin Cilic (Croatia) beat Marton Fucsovics (Hungary) 7-6(3) 5-7 7-6(4)
4-Juan Martin del Potro (Argentina) beat 6-Roberto Bautista (Spain) 6-2 2-6 6-4
3-David Goffin (Belgium) beat 5-Jack Sock (U.S.) 7-6(6) 6-3

 

[britbox]

Delpo up a set and a break against Cilic.

 

[britbox]

 

[Busted]

Delpo up a set and a break against Cilic.

I didn't see the match but for some reason Cilic has a horrible record against DelPo. Going into the match I think he was 2-9 against DelPo, so I'm not surprised at this result. Seems to me like he's the better mover of the two and would at least try to make DelPo run side-to-side more.

On another note - just saw the highlights of Roger's match against Goffin. I can't help but feel bad for Goffin because it's like watching someone's older brother put their younger brother in a headlock, give them noogie and then pat them on their head and send them on their way. At least Roger didn't charge Goffin for the tennis lesson. It literally looked like he was practicing for his Sunday match again DelPo...

 

[Busted]

FWIW - Paris has already made up the draw but in his post-match Interview today Roger said he's not concerned with the #1 ranking because he's too far behind and he'll make a decision about playing Paris on Sunday night. If Roger pulls out - I wouldn't be surprised to see Nadal do the same.

 

[Moxie]

FWIW - Paris has already made up the draw but in his post-match Interview today Roger said he's not concerned with the #1 ranking because he's too far behind and he'll make a decision about playing Paris on Sunday night. If Roger pulls out - I wouldn't be surprised to see Nadal do the same.

If Nadal's knee is good, I don't see why he'd pull out. OK, the draw is not great, but he's got points to gain, and it's one tournament he's never won. However, if the knee needs rest, I'd hope he'd save himself for the YEC. Roger, btw, is playing amazingly well.

 

[britbox]

Results from the Basel International Men's Singles Semifinal matches on Saturday

1-Roger Federer (Switzerland) beat 3-David Goffin (Belgium) 6-1 6-2
4-Juan Martin del Potro (Argentina) beat 2-Marin Cilic (Croatia) 6-4 6-4







Federer leads the H2H 17-6

2017 Shanghai Masters SF Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 3-6 6-3 6-3
2017 US Open QF Hard Juan Martin Del Potro Roger Federer 7-5 3-6 7-6(8) 6-4
2017 Miami Masters R32 Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-3 6-4
2013 ATP World Tour Finals 10 Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 4-6 7-6(2) 7-5)
2013 Paris Masters QF Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-3 4-6 6-3
2013 Basel F Hard Juan Martin Del Potro Roger Federer 7-6(3) 2-6 6-4
2012 ATP World Tour Finals 10 Hard Juan Martin Del Potro Roger Federer 7-6(3) 4-6 6-3
2012 Basel F Hard Juan Martin Del Potro Roger Federer 6-4 6-7(5) 7-6(3)
2012 Olympic Tennis SF Grass Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 3-6 7-6(5) 19-17
2012 FO - RG QF Clay Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 3-6 6-7(4) 6-2 6-0 6-3
2012 Indian Wells Masters QF Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-3 6-2
2012 Dubai SF Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 7-6(5) 7-6(6)
2012 Rotterdam F Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-1 6-4
2012 Australian Open QF Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-4 6-3 6-2
2011 Cincinnati Masters R32 Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-3 7-5
2009 ATP World Tour Finals 11 Hard Juan Martin Del Potro Roger Federer 6-2 6-7(5) 6-3
2009 US Open F Hard Juan Martin Del Potro Roger Federer 3-6 7-6(5) 4-6 7-6(4) 6-2
2009 FO - RG SF Clay Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 3-6 7-6(2) 2-6 6-1 6-4
2009 Madrid Masters SF Clay Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-3 6-4
2009 Australian Open QF Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-3 6-0 6-0
2008 Madrid Masters QF Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-3 6-3
2007 Basel R16 Hard Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-1 6-4
2007 Wimbledon R64 Grass Roger Federer Juan Martin Del Potro 6-2 7-5 6-1

 

[Moxie]

I didn't see the match but for some reason Cilic has a horrible record against DelPo. Going into the match I think he was 2-9 against DelPo, so I'm not surprised at this result. Seems to me like he's the better mover of the two and would at least try to make DelPo run side-to-side more.

IMO, the reason that Cilic has a horrible record v. del Potro is that Juan Martin is a superior player. Cilic is a bit of a pretender, imo, whereas JMDP is more of the real deal. That's why I responded as I did to your post on the USO thread, where you were whinging about the quality of the tournament. Even if Cilic or Zverev had made the final, I still think Nadal played the quality opponent left in the tournament, in del Po.

 

[Haelfix]

Cilic vs DP is interesting bc on paper it should be more even. Cilic has a better return, better movement and a better backhand. The problem is Cilic isn’t a very cerebral player, whereas DP is... He gets the upper hand in rallies almost every time bc he hits a heavier forehand and crucially a more consistent one. But more than that he is also not afraid to hit angles and off pace shots and he draws a ton of errors from Cilic.

It’s just much more polished, and that’s disappointing bc Cilic is a vet who still plays like he’s a kid.

 

[Moxie]

Cilic vs DP is interesting bc on paper it should be more even. Cilic has a better return, better movement and a better backhand. The problem is Cilic isn’t a very cerebral player, whereas DP is... He gets the upper hand in rallies almost every time bc he hits a heavier forehand and crucially a more consistent one. But more than that he is also not afraid to hit angles and off pace shots and he draws a ton of errors from Cilic.

It’s just much more polished, and that’s disappointing bc Cilic is a vet who still plays like he’s a kid.

Hey, @Haelfix. They came up at the same time, and were briefly known as the twin towers. Del Po broke away early and has always been the better of the two. Cilic has had really brief patches of excellence, but I think we agree...he doesn't play with intelligence. When his serve is one, and his game is clicking he's good to excellent, but in part because he's tall. Del Potro is more than just tall.

 

[Carol]

If Delpo's serve works well and he doesn't have any discomfort he can win this final

 

[shawnbm]

Yes, he can carol; but, if Roger serves and plays at the level he’s been exhibiting, then he takes this in straight sets.

 

[Haelfix]

Federer-DelPotro is sort of like Novak-DelPotro. It's just a very bad matchup for the big guy in general. It was bad in 2009 when he was at his peak and it hasn't gotten any better now that his backhand is so vulnerable.

Still, Del Potro is a great, great player and has the capability to beat anyone, including his bad matchups. On this surface, which is so fast, you give him a punchers chance. He needs a high percentage of first serves, and Roger needs to have a few mental lapses.

Still, I don't see it. Roger has been playing too well.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Delpo has a chance but I am wondering if he has played too much recently or not. Roger is up and down a bit, one day TMF, the next, so so. He has to bring it today.
Breaks and gets broken right back. Roger needs his first serve.