Yeah, me too. I am thinking they never played each other before.
Stockholm Open, Sweden, ATP 250
- Thread starter britbox
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Yeah, me too. I am thinking they never played each other before.
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That was impressive, and gave Karlovic a good fight too. Looking to see more of this youngster.
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Good information, Billie. Aren't the two who played the other day twins? I thought that's what the commentators said, although they didn't look alike. Of course they could be fraternal, but the one who beat Verdasco looked younger, I thought.
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U NOW have 1/2 ur wish.
this is a good evenly matched - match of jack and zverev. big serves, good movements, big backhand against big forehand. more experience against teenager..nice.
we all know abotu DELP AND what a pleasure to see him back!
but a word needs to be said FOR JACK SOCK -- who has done himself CREDIT in the past few years - to reach some of his best results in his career thus far. the guy DESERVES applause for his own merits!
i like jack sock - his style, his demeanor. and he deserves his chances to be considered a serious contender in titles.
but a word needs to be said FOR JACK SOCK -- who has done himself CREDIT in the past few years - to reach some of his best results in his career thus far. the guy DESERVES applause for his own merits!
i like jack sock - his style, his demeanor. and he deserves his chances to be considered a serious contender in titles.
hehe -- instead we get JACK SOCK agianst DELPO!
SO who are your guesses, folks?
maybe a little bit advantage to delpo? i am not sure myself as that forehand of jack (and his serves too ) is not to be trifled with even by delpo.
It would be so nice to see Delpo win here, not that I have anything against Sock. I'll give the big Argentinian slight advantage.
Mikhael is 18 and Elias is 20. I think that Rafael is the youngest.
It would be so nice to see Delpo win here, not that I have anything against Sock. I'll give the big Argentinian slight advantage.
oh i know what you mean...DELPO is just an impressive player and athlete -- with that gigantic game of his -- and then all the years lost - how can anyone NOT want him to at least take more titles to fill in such a huge gap of what he might have done ?
such a big talent -- literally and mentally and as a technician -- it's almost a CRIME that he lost so much time and chances, u know?
replay of the DELPO DIMITROV match --
really shows how BIG delpo's game is by contrast.
dimitrov - for all his talent which IS considerable -- really is made to look ''boyish" in my eyes. and THAT'S with delpo making mistakes just by himself.
how much more if ALL his guns are firing in really top, top health, fitness and match form? it would be frightening, i think.
i remember clearly when i first saw delpo play -- he won his first clay court - tiny, tiny title in argentina when he was , i think 18..just the year before his USO - and i thought 'that guy is frightening -- especially if he makes that serve fit his power and size" because THAT TIME HE wasn't even hitting serves the way he eventually showed...(and still we know or sense that he can probably UP that part as a weapon some more) ...
i was so impressed then not just at his power but his finesse already and his movement for such a big guy. just lucky the TV at that time actually showed some of those small tournaments also.
in any case he does have that big game that makes Dimitrov seem to lose belief in HIS own game...it seems?like it makes DIMITROV feel that
"i am a jeep against a TANK running at 80 miles per hour." lol.
or the german ''panzer" today thinking of going up aginst the russian new ARMATA T-90.S hehe....no contest...lol.
does that make sense ?
really shows how BIG delpo's game is by contrast.
dimitrov - for all his talent which IS considerable -- really is made to look ''boyish" in my eyes. and THAT'S with delpo making mistakes just by himself.
how much more if ALL his guns are firing in really top, top health, fitness and match form? it would be frightening, i think.
i remember clearly when i first saw delpo play -- he won his first clay court - tiny, tiny title in argentina when he was , i think 18..just the year before his USO - and i thought 'that guy is frightening -- especially if he makes that serve fit his power and size" because THAT TIME HE wasn't even hitting serves the way he eventually showed...(and still we know or sense that he can probably UP that part as a weapon some more) ...
i was so impressed then not just at his power but his finesse already and his movement for such a big guy. just lucky the TV at that time actually showed some of those small tournaments also.
in any case he does have that big game that makes Dimitrov seem to lose belief in HIS own game...it seems?like it makes DIMITROV feel that
"i am a jeep against a TANK running at 80 miles per hour." lol.
or the german ''panzer" today thinking of going up aginst the russian new ARMATA T-90.S hehe....no contest...lol.
does that make sense ?
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sorry britbox -- i couldn't help myself -- but being that sweden is the country that is one of the loudest screamers against the ''russian threat" -- while helping prepare for invading russia (again as they all did in all of european history) --
you forgot to add THIS part of sweden's ''story"..
=-====================
russia-insider.com
Sweden Was a Military Giant - Until It Invaded Russia
Michael Peck (The National Interest) 6 hours ago | 1,399 Comments
When most people think of Sweden, they think of IKEA furniture, depressing murder mysteries and a foreign policy of strict neutrality.
Yet 400 years ago, Sweden was a major military power. Indeed, it was even an empire, a fact that must make today's Swedish leftists cringe.
Under young King Gustavus Adolphus, a brilliant and innovative military commander, Sweden in the early 1600s became a sort of Nordic Israel (which must also make Swedish leftists cringe). Sweden was a poor, thinly populated nation that couldn't match the resources of larger rivals such as France and Russia.
So, Gustavus Adolphus had to devise a more flexible, mobile form of warfare. In an age when armies consisted of poorly paid and underfed peasants and mercenaries more likely to loot their own fellow citizens than fight the enemy, Sweden maintained a professional and well-trained standing army. Swedish troops maneuvered tactically in smaller, flexible companies instead of the cumbersome formations of their enemies. While 17th Century armies were transitioning from swords and pikes to muskets and artillery, Gustavus Adolphus increased the number of gunpowder weapons. Most artillery of the era had little battlefield mobility, but the Swedish king equipped his infantry regiments with their own light, mobile field guns that could support the foot soldiers throughout the battle.
During the Thirty Years War of 1618-48, Swedish forces advanced so far south that they almost captured Prague and Vienna deep in Central Europe. Their crowning achievement was the Battle of Breitenfeld in September 1631, when a Protestant army of 23,000 Swedes and 18,000 Saxons nearly wiped out a Catholic Holy Roman Empire force of 35,000 men, and lost just 5,500 men in the process.
Gustavus Adolphus fell at the Battle of Lutzen in 1632 (though his army still won). But in a succession of conflicts with IKEA-like names such as the Torstenson War, Swedish forces performed well against the Danes, Norwegians, Dutch, Poles and Russians. Sweden seized large parts of today's eastern Germany and Poland, and became a major Baltic power.
And then Sweden decided to invade Russia in 1708.
Can you guess how this going to end?
The Great Northern War of 1700-1721 pitted a Swedish-led coalition against a Russian-led alliance. The Swedes were commanded by young Charles XII, a clever, energetic ruler dubbed the “Lion of the North” and the “Swedish Meteor.” But Russia was led by the legendary Peter the Great, who eventually turned his large but poor nation into a major European power. At stake was Swedish control of swathes of Eastern and Central Europe, and more important, who would be the dominant power in the Baltic.
Charles XII marched into Russia with just 40,000 men, a small force compared to the 500,000 of Napoleon's Grande Armee of 1812, or the 3 million men of Hitler's Operation Barbarossa. Yet the war began well for the Swedes. It knocked Denmark-Norway and the Polish-Lithuanian Empire out of the war. But as in later conflicts, there was still the Russian colossus to contend with.
Yet waging war with small, hard-hitting armies was a strategy that worked for Sweden before. So why shouldn't it work again? At Narva in today's Estonia in 1700, 12,000 Swedes outnumbered nearly 3 to 1 almost wiped out a 37,000-strong Russian force during a battle fought in a blizzard. In many ways, the struggle resembled World War II, where smaller but proficient German forces defeated larger but clumsier Soviet armies.
Unfortunately for the Swedish Meteor, the Russians also used a strategy that had always worked for them. Their armies withdrew deep into the vastness of Mother Russia, leaving “scorched earth” in their wake and precious little for the Swedish soldiers and horses to eat. Meanwhile, Russian columns ambushed and destroyed Swedish reinforcements that Charles desperately needed to replenish his battered army.
Then came the Great Frost of 1709, the coldest winter that Europe had experienced in the previous 500 years, which of course turned Russia into a vast freezer that could sustain human life under the right conditions. For a Swedish army deprived of shelter and food in a scorched landscape, the conditions were anything but right. More than 2,000 Swedes died from the cold in a single night.Those who have seen the photos of frozen German soldiers at Moscow and Stalingrad can imagine what the boys from Stockholm must have looked like.
The tombstone of the Swedish Empire was carved at the Battle of Poltava in central Ukraine in June 1709. The summer after the Great Frost saw the Swedish army shrink to 20,000 soldiers and 34 cannon. Ever the aggressive monarch, Charles XII laid siege to Poltava. Peter intervened with a relief force of 80,000 men. The Russian troops first resisted a Swedish charge (wounds had forced Charles to relinquish command of his army). The Russians then counterattacked with their superior numbers, enveloping and routing the Swedish forces.
The Swedes suffered about 19,000 casualties, almost their entire force. The Russians also suffered. But as later invaders were to learn, the Russians could replace their losses while the invaders could not.
Charles left Russia with 543 survivors. Sweden lost its Baltic territories, and never regained its vast possessions or military glory. Soon the Swedish Empire was no more.
To be fair to the Lion of the North, Charles XII had no crystal ball to foresee what would happen to Napoleon and Hitler when they invaded Russia. The more interesting question is why Napoleon and Hitler didn't learn from the fate of Charles XII. It is curious that over the course of 250 years, three European kings and dictators fought a campaign in Russia in the dead of winter. None succeeded.
Nonetheless, there is a story that soon after Napoleon invaded Russia in June 1812, the Tsar dispatched General Balashov with a letter urging peace. When Napoleon said he would defeat Russia, Balashov is said to have warned him: “The Russians, like the French, say that all roads lead to Rome. The road to Moscow is a matter of choice. Charles XII went via Poltava.”
Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on Twitter and Facebook.
they can all go to moscow or st petersburg or anywhere in russia and play tennis and win titles..
just all westerners -- including USA -- should once and for all remember what BRITISH GENERAL MONTGOMERY adviced:
"there are three rules of WAR ..
1) DO NOT march to moscow
2) do not march to moscow
3) follow rules 1 and 2.
=============
but oh -- a LITTLE known fact of russian defense is this:
so long as the invaders were made to realize they would NEVER rule square foot of russia...and sent home -- whoever survived and were marched OUT --
especially during the NAZI invasion of russia --
in their starvation and hunger - bereft of their grand invading armies --
were actually 'escorted' by russians along the roads...
with the russians throwing potatoes to the defeated invaders...for FOOD on their way home to their own lands.
BECAUSE there remained a russian saying:
"No matter what they tried to do to us -- they are just soldiers following orders..but they have mothers to go home to - instead of hating them -- we haeve to try and understand them"
SOMETHING FOR THE MOXIES OF THE WORLD TO COMPREHEND about the 'big bad russian threat". THEIR HILLARY AND OBAMA spout about.
you forgot to add THIS part of sweden's ''story"..
=-====================
russia-insider.com
Sweden Was a Military Giant - Until It Invaded Russia
Michael Peck (The National Interest) 6 hours ago | 1,399 Comments
When most people think of Sweden, they think of IKEA furniture, depressing murder mysteries and a foreign policy of strict neutrality.
Yet 400 years ago, Sweden was a major military power. Indeed, it was even an empire, a fact that must make today's Swedish leftists cringe.
Under young King Gustavus Adolphus, a brilliant and innovative military commander, Sweden in the early 1600s became a sort of Nordic Israel (which must also make Swedish leftists cringe). Sweden was a poor, thinly populated nation that couldn't match the resources of larger rivals such as France and Russia.
So, Gustavus Adolphus had to devise a more flexible, mobile form of warfare. In an age when armies consisted of poorly paid and underfed peasants and mercenaries more likely to loot their own fellow citizens than fight the enemy, Sweden maintained a professional and well-trained standing army. Swedish troops maneuvered tactically in smaller, flexible companies instead of the cumbersome formations of their enemies. While 17th Century armies were transitioning from swords and pikes to muskets and artillery, Gustavus Adolphus increased the number of gunpowder weapons. Most artillery of the era had little battlefield mobility, but the Swedish king equipped his infantry regiments with their own light, mobile field guns that could support the foot soldiers throughout the battle.
During the Thirty Years War of 1618-48, Swedish forces advanced so far south that they almost captured Prague and Vienna deep in Central Europe. Their crowning achievement was the Battle of Breitenfeld in September 1631, when a Protestant army of 23,000 Swedes and 18,000 Saxons nearly wiped out a Catholic Holy Roman Empire force of 35,000 men, and lost just 5,500 men in the process.
Gustavus Adolphus fell at the Battle of Lutzen in 1632 (though his army still won). But in a succession of conflicts with IKEA-like names such as the Torstenson War, Swedish forces performed well against the Danes, Norwegians, Dutch, Poles and Russians. Sweden seized large parts of today's eastern Germany and Poland, and became a major Baltic power.
And then Sweden decided to invade Russia in 1708.
Can you guess how this going to end?
The Great Northern War of 1700-1721 pitted a Swedish-led coalition against a Russian-led alliance. The Swedes were commanded by young Charles XII, a clever, energetic ruler dubbed the “Lion of the North” and the “Swedish Meteor.” But Russia was led by the legendary Peter the Great, who eventually turned his large but poor nation into a major European power. At stake was Swedish control of swathes of Eastern and Central Europe, and more important, who would be the dominant power in the Baltic.
Charles XII marched into Russia with just 40,000 men, a small force compared to the 500,000 of Napoleon's Grande Armee of 1812, or the 3 million men of Hitler's Operation Barbarossa. Yet the war began well for the Swedes. It knocked Denmark-Norway and the Polish-Lithuanian Empire out of the war. But as in later conflicts, there was still the Russian colossus to contend with.
Yet waging war with small, hard-hitting armies was a strategy that worked for Sweden before. So why shouldn't it work again? At Narva in today's Estonia in 1700, 12,000 Swedes outnumbered nearly 3 to 1 almost wiped out a 37,000-strong Russian force during a battle fought in a blizzard. In many ways, the struggle resembled World War II, where smaller but proficient German forces defeated larger but clumsier Soviet armies.
Unfortunately for the Swedish Meteor, the Russians also used a strategy that had always worked for them. Their armies withdrew deep into the vastness of Mother Russia, leaving “scorched earth” in their wake and precious little for the Swedish soldiers and horses to eat. Meanwhile, Russian columns ambushed and destroyed Swedish reinforcements that Charles desperately needed to replenish his battered army.
Then came the Great Frost of 1709, the coldest winter that Europe had experienced in the previous 500 years, which of course turned Russia into a vast freezer that could sustain human life under the right conditions. For a Swedish army deprived of shelter and food in a scorched landscape, the conditions were anything but right. More than 2,000 Swedes died from the cold in a single night.Those who have seen the photos of frozen German soldiers at Moscow and Stalingrad can imagine what the boys from Stockholm must have looked like.
The tombstone of the Swedish Empire was carved at the Battle of Poltava in central Ukraine in June 1709. The summer after the Great Frost saw the Swedish army shrink to 20,000 soldiers and 34 cannon. Ever the aggressive monarch, Charles XII laid siege to Poltava. Peter intervened with a relief force of 80,000 men. The Russian troops first resisted a Swedish charge (wounds had forced Charles to relinquish command of his army). The Russians then counterattacked with their superior numbers, enveloping and routing the Swedish forces.
The Swedes suffered about 19,000 casualties, almost their entire force. The Russians also suffered. But as later invaders were to learn, the Russians could replace their losses while the invaders could not.
Charles left Russia with 543 survivors. Sweden lost its Baltic territories, and never regained its vast possessions or military glory. Soon the Swedish Empire was no more.
To be fair to the Lion of the North, Charles XII had no crystal ball to foresee what would happen to Napoleon and Hitler when they invaded Russia. The more interesting question is why Napoleon and Hitler didn't learn from the fate of Charles XII. It is curious that over the course of 250 years, three European kings and dictators fought a campaign in Russia in the dead of winter. None succeeded.
Nonetheless, there is a story that soon after Napoleon invaded Russia in June 1812, the Tsar dispatched General Balashov with a letter urging peace. When Napoleon said he would defeat Russia, Balashov is said to have warned him: “The Russians, like the French, say that all roads lead to Rome. The road to Moscow is a matter of choice. Charles XII went via Poltava.”
Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on Twitter and Facebook.
they can all go to moscow or st petersburg or anywhere in russia and play tennis and win titles..
just all westerners -- including USA -- should once and for all remember what BRITISH GENERAL MONTGOMERY adviced:
"there are three rules of WAR ..
1) DO NOT march to moscow
2) do not march to moscow
3) follow rules 1 and 2.
=============
but oh -- a LITTLE known fact of russian defense is this:
so long as the invaders were made to realize they would NEVER rule square foot of russia...and sent home -- whoever survived and were marched OUT --
especially during the NAZI invasion of russia --
in their starvation and hunger - bereft of their grand invading armies --
were actually 'escorted' by russians along the roads...
with the russians throwing potatoes to the defeated invaders...for FOOD on their way home to their own lands.
BECAUSE there remained a russian saying:
"No matter what they tried to do to us -- they are just soldiers following orders..but they have mothers to go home to - instead of hating them -- we haeve to try and understand them"
SOMETHING FOR THE MOXIES OF THE WORLD TO COMPREHEND about the 'big bad russian threat". THEIR HILLARY AND OBAMA spout about.
Last edited:
Delpo's game is big, but hopefully he can tame all that power so we can watch him more frequently on tennis courts, instead of being injured for lengthy periods of time.
so true.
i think taming the power is a matter of match-sharpness...you know how it is with everything else we do in life...
it takes time to get into a routine - a certain level of control over our own abilities - whether it's counting, or riding a bike, or playing a musical instrument such as i do -- so i KNOW that exact thing about 'performance and talent"
because that's been m life's business.
hitting the right exact note at the right exact milli-second at the exct proper sound, loudness, quality of tone, for the exact intended result...things like that really require years of continuous labor...at yhour craft -- and even THEN -- the rest of the lifetime refining and polishing endlessly. JUST to be on a decent level of performance.
that's why tennis is very attractive to me even as a mere ''watcher"
it's exactly like music performance . all the little adjustmnets, the tiny little critical things that can make or break something. and ya
taming power - knowing WHEN and HOW to built towards ''a climax" in music is the same as ''building the point and hitting the finishing closing shot"
one thing i like about his game - maybe because of his size/ ?
how DECEPTIVE his movement is - he is SO quick and subtle in his paces -- you hardly notice he is moving very quickly for such a big guy. u know? of course it helps that he has long-line body...tall, long arms, legs, etc..
but still the actual movement is QUICK. and smooth. and that shows you real athletic ability. like a panther or big cat. i like that.
Yeah Teddy, I think modern day players work very hard on their physical strength, as well as their tennis ones. When did they start travelling with physio, coach, fitness coach? Not that long ago.
so true also about the traveling ''team"
it;s all part of the modern game and business after all. many updates abotu how to stay fit, healthy, nutrition - all that.
sampras relates that for much of his early career -- he basically traveled with his brother. fitness was the tennis ITSELF. that's it.
in HIS boyhood --
''my dad brought me to the tennis court after school..then left me there - and picked me up later...at home we never talked about tennis...it was just my thing and not more special than anyone else's thing..the first time my parent attended my match was when i won wimbledon in 1999..my parents of course sacrificed so much for us -- so stella who also gave me tennis tips - could go to college and i do my tennis...but we weren't really the tennis family like you see nowadays...".
BIG difference isn't it?
the modern type of 'team business' really may have started with andre agassi, i would think. with his musclebuilding, strengthand endurance training on the hills of las vegas with coach - that kind of thing, plus all the physio - and itwas showcased in thos mid-nineties
when he was like the iron-man of tennis...and i think the idea of ''maximizing' every last bit became the trend.
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I agree. Jack's progression has been impressive. Good luck to the combatants.
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I'll be satisfied with either result, but I think del Potro may take this. He's playing with a lot of confidence and isn't having dips, or taking a few points or games off. I just want to see a good match and congrats to the victor.
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