Rolex Shanghai Masters 2018, China

[monfed]

I'm well aware the surface composition hasn't changed since 2002 but it is still much heavier conditions now and that is due to them using a heavier ball. Many of the tournaments that have slowed down have done so because of the ball they use, not because of a change in the surface.

Sure but I've never heard of Wimbledon using heavier balls. Do you have a source for this?

 

[monfed]

There was a lot of talk at the time that old man Fed was tired out by the SF. But he wasn't too tired to withstand a 5-setter with Nadal, after a 5-setter v. Wawrinka at the AO in 2017, 4 1/2 years later. Just another excuse from the fan base that doesn't think it makes excuses. Personally, I think it was in Britain, and Murray took that previous loss to heart and kicked it up a notch, with crowd support and just won it. Give him his due.

Ya Mugray peaked and you dulltards were showering praise at him as he blocked Fed from winning OG.

 

[monfed]

Oh, get over that one. That's a huge "what if." Someone was going to stop that streak, and it was either going to be Roger in the SF or Rafa in the final. Roger couldn't beat Rafa at RG. Basically no one could. I'm not sure why you need so many emoticons to understand that.

 

[monfed]

Because Novak is the GOAT already. And there is no arguing about it.

faker has GOAT hair, doesn't move against hurricane force winds.

 

[DarthFed]

Sure but I've never heard of Wimbledon using heavier balls. Do you have a source for this?

It seems they tinkered with it over the years but it was clear by 2006 that the courts were becoming slower and quicker to wear down and I read something around then that they had gone to a heavier ball. Even recently in 2017 the announcers and players noted they switched to a heavier ball from the 2016 tournament. There was also that Wimbledon video comparing the bounce of Federer's serve at 2003 vs. 2008 hit with the same speed with the same trajectory.

 

[DarthFed]

Fed lost those matches because in part he choked and the major part being faker was sublime , Fed has always been a choking clown and faker is a ridiculous returner so when the first serves stand landing at Fred's feet he loses his shit and starts choking left n right.

I don't fault the grass for Fed's repeated failures at Wimbledon(it was mostly due to drop in form and faker coming into his own) but I certainly do blame Fed's failures at USO due to the ridiculous slowdown there which the USO organisers came out publicly this year.

Roger should have done better on grass and he's had notable collapses and piss poor performances in the late stages, collapses in 2011, 2016 and 2018 vs 3rd tier players, piss poor performances in 2008 and 2015 finals.

But if they played on real grass it'd have been a lot harder for those atrocities to occur...common sense.

 

[monfed]

Roger should have done better on grass and he's had notable collapses and piss poor performances in the late stages, collapses in 2011, 2016 and 2018 vs 3rd tier players, piss poor performances in 2008 and 2015 finals.

But if they played on real grass it'd have been a lot harder for those atrocities to occur...common sense.

Fed played to form, there is nothing different he could've done in those matches besides 2016 SF which he should've won. In 2011 and 2018 he was beaten fair and square specially 2011. 2018 was a chokejob but his overall level on grass was bad anyway so can't fault the grass for that. No need to give excuses for these years as Fed would've never won the tournament anyway.

 

[monfed]

It seems they tinkered with it over the years but it was clear by 2006 that the courts were becoming slower and quicker to wear down and I read something around then that they had gone to a heavier ball. Even recently in 2017 the announcers and players noted they switched to a heavier ball from the 2016 tournament. There was also that Wimbledon video comparing the bounce of Federer's serve at 2003 vs. 2008 hit with the same speed with the same trajectory.

LOL cmon man there's no difference, sometimes the grass gets scruffed up more due to weather conditions. This is too stupid.

 

[DarthFed]

Fed played to form, there is nothing different he could've done in those matches besides 2016 SF which he should've won. In 2011 and 2018 he was beaten fair and square specially 2011. 2018 was a chokejob but his overall level on grass was bad anyway so can't fault the grass for that. No need to give excuses for these years as Fed would've never won the tournament anyway.

He should've done better in spite of the grass playing less to his liking than it should. He was doing alright this year before that capitulation against Anderson, not at all sure he wouldn't have won the tournament without that disaster. 2016 he was clearly not at his best but again collapsed vs Raonic. Anyways he lost and he deserved to lose just like every other loss.

 

[DarthFed]

LOL cmon man there's no difference, sometimes the grass gets scruffed up more due to weather conditions. This is too stupid.

I don't give a shit what you believe, it's clearly slowed down even more since the change in the surface in 2002. Obviously weather can be a factor but so is the ball they use.

 

[monfed]

He should've done better in spite of the grass playing less to his liking than it should. He was doing alright this year before that capitulation against Anderson, not at all sure he wouldn't have won the tournament without that disaster. 2016 he was clearly not at his best but again collapsed vs Raonic. Anyways he lost and he deserved to lose just like every other loss.

Fed was lucky to win the 2nd set TB, it could've been a 4 set win for Anderson, his level wasn't good, it was fluctuating so the defeat was coming. Even if Fed had escaped he would've lost to faker if not Isner.

Yea he deserved to lose, nothing to do with the grass.

 

[monfed]

I don't give a shit what you believe, it's clearly slowed down even more since the change in the surface in 2002. Obviously weather can be a factor but so is the ball they use.

LOL no need to lose your shit because you're talking total crap about grass being slowed down from 2002-2018. You can't slow grass down, it's not fucking synthetic. Show proof which you have none of. Just cause Fed loses doesn't mean the grass is slow LOL

 

[monfed]

Fed hasn't deserved to win a single Wimbledon since 09. Infact in 09 too his ground game was shit but duck couldn't capitalise. In 2012, Fed won because it was played indoors otherwise he would've lost that too. And 2017 was a lucky break from peak faker though maybe this one time he would've taken out faker with his improved BH return but that's pure speculation.

No Fed has not deserved to win Wimbledons like dull has deserved to win RG because dull's level on RG has been far superior to Fred's.

The only slam Fed was robbed is USO but there too he choked like a little shit in 09 so in a way it's deserved specially for his lackadaisical approach to USO in general.

 

[monfed]

Both dull and faker suck on first week grass specially dull. When they survive the first week, they become very tough to beat. Gotta give them credit for their 2nd week play, no escaping that. This is how Wimbledon courts are and have been since 2002.

 

[britbox]

LOL no need to lose your shit because you're talking total crap about grass being slowed down from 2002-2018. You can't slow grass down, it's not fucking synthetic. Show proof which you have none of. Just cause Fed loses doesn't mean the grass is slow LOL

It did change... there was scientific video evidence about the ball bounce height and speed after they changed the compound of the grass. It was actually a pretty huge shift. They did a study on BBC Sports. I'll try and find it when I've got time.

 

[monfed]

It did change... there was scientific video evidence about the ball bounce height and speed after they changed the compound of the grass. It was actually a pretty huge shift. They did a study on BBC Sports. I'll try and find it when I've got time.

With all due respect britbox, I've seen that video but that analysis looked flawed to me. They use one sample of ball bouncing higher and conclude that the grass is different. But ofcourse if you're saying the grass composition itself has changed then that is news to me. Grass was radically changed in 2002, since then it has been the same imo.

Regardless I don't think it was such a big shift that Fed couldn't beat faker and dull anymore. Both of those players heavily improved, dull in 2008 and faker in 2015. Fed could've clutched out 2014 but that's about it.

And I think Fed would've got destroyed by dull in 2010 final and by faker in 2011. That's for sure.

 

[DarthFed]

I mean for the last time...I know the surface didn't change since 2002. It's like you don't realize the weight of the ball matters in regards to playing conditions. Usually there isn't going to be a big article on a tournament changing the ball year to year. The 2017 tournament the announcers were talking quite a bit about the ball being heavier than the year before.

 

[monfed]

I mean for the last time...I know the surface didn't change since 2002. It's like you don't realize the weight of the ball matters in regards to playing conditions. Usually there isn't going to be a big article on a tournament changing the ball year to year. The 2017 tournament the announcers were talking quite a bit about the ball being heavier than the year before.

Sure except Fed is a more natural grass courter and even with the ball being heavier should be able to take care of faker and dull who aren't natural on grass specially fakervic. But Fed can't because his ground game sucks and both faker and dull's ground games are strong and they dont choke like a hen when the going gets tough like Fed ala Wim 14 missed overhead and dropping his next service game.

 

[britbox]

With all due respect britbox, I've seen that video but that analysis looked flawed to me. They use one sample of ball bouncing higher and conclude that the grass is different. But ofcourse if you're saying the grass composition itself has changed then that is news to me. Grass was radically changed in 2002, since then it has been the same imo.

Regardless I don't think it was such a big shift that Fed couldn't beat faker and dull anymore. Both of those players heavily improved, dull in 2008 and faker in 2015. Fed could've clutched out 2014 but that's about it.

And I think Fed would've got destroyed by dull in 2010 final and by faker in 2011. That's for sure.

I don't think they based it on one shot lol... there was a bit more analysis than that, they were looking at the average ball trajectory... but I kind of agree on the rest. Courts are what they are... I don't think there is some major conspiracy to support a player outside of the host country. Nadal was far better on grass back in the day than he was ever given credit for.

 

[atttomole]

Fed hasn't deserved to win a single Wimbledon since 09. Infact in 09 too his ground game was shit but duck couldn't capitalise. In 2012, Fed won because it was played indoors otherwise he would've lost that too. And 2017 was a lucky break from peak faker though maybe this one time he would've taken out faker with his improved BH return but that's pure speculation.

No Fed has not deserved to win Wimbledons like dull has deserved to win RG because dull's level on RG has been far superior to Fred's.

The only slam Fed was robbed is USO but there too he choked like a little shit in 09 so in a way it's deserved specially for his lackadaisical approach to USO in general.

Nice to see that you are becoming more and more unbiased. You say that Federer did not deserve to win Wimbledon in 2012 because it was played under the roof. On the other hand, you say that Nadal and Djokovic should get credit for being hardly beatable when they survive the first week.