Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada, ATP Masters

[Shivashish Sarkar]

As far as Wimbledon is concerned, it was more a case of lack of good quality opponents as to why Roger could not really show a great level himself. We know about Roger that guys like Novak, Rafa, Andy bring the best out of him. He might not win them all. But, could it not be that Roger just didn't get pushed enough to deliver his A-game against anyone. Good level from the opponent causes him to raise his game even his movement. Perhaps, he just found his B or B+ game to be enough for all opponents. I would chose to have this opinion. Because, he did not look particularly off or incompetent in any match, he just did not show his A game that he is known for. Could have been lack of a challenger of that required level like a 2015 Novak or 2010 Rafa, could be. I like to think he would have shown his A-game then. A very good possibility. How can you just be sure that someone would have exposed his bad level that you accuse him of? Roger knows the grass surface better than anyone and might have just used tips and tactics to win matches never really having to play his A-game. He could have just harnessed his deep understanding of the surface & B-game-tips-and-tactics more than anything else to get through.

You cannot put his Wimbly level and Montreal level in the same category. He was kinda poor here alright barring the first match. Give me a break. Roger even was not physically 100% in some part of the final match at least. So, going by this and saying Roger did not deserve to win at Wimbly is not just harsh but also not that smart.

I am not bitter about this loss. He would not have played this tourney any other year and we have to happy about the 600 points. You cannot win everything and it's ok to lose. It helps you improve.

An assessment of Roger at Montreal:

Forehand was ok.
Backhand was not ok.
Serve was not quite ok.
Overall, tactically or strategically there was no negative deviation at least before the final.
Never showed his A-game.

So, if Roger didn't look physically compromised today, I would have just hoped he honed all parts of his game going forward since tactically he is doing well and it is just that the sub-par form made it bad. But he looked to be in discomfort today and that is never a great sign two weeks before a slam. As soon as Roger entered the final, I thought he would skip Cincy. Now, it seems all the more obvious.

The injury means slowing down/halting at the very least. A light injury will undermine his performance at USO and beyond. Something serious will mean he ends his season for good, maybe. Even a slight discomfort can cause him problems in competing with Rafa for year -end no. 1. I don't want to sound pessimistic but I hope it is not over.

 

[The Strokes]

Oh, I wasn´t implying you made such a statement... I just wanted to leave very clear that I am sure Zverev deserved the W, but at the same time Federer showed signs of... I don´t know what, but something. Here you need to make yourself very clear that you´re not going into excuse territory....

And, yes, Nadal´s draw was way tougher, I have posted my opinion about that when the draw came out.

Wimbledon, again, not saying that Federer was stellar, but all over the internet (even here, where people are way more balanced than average), I can´t help but feel that it is hard to find an assessment that is not extreme, i.e, either the guy played like crap and only won because the he sold his soul to the devil, or he was to most amazing player of all time. Most times he was simply the last man standing, which most of the times means he was the guy playing better those two weeks. This is basically what happened in Wimbledon, and, believe me, it is harder than it looks...

SOld to the devil? Where would anyone get that?
I

In the name of peace, I gave a very short simplified answer to a meta narrative that is being played out around revived GOAThood in 2017. (Also because you can't imagine how tired I am about arguing GOAThood re Fed and Nadal on sites that are 80% fed fan based. NO make that tired period.) But just this then I have to stop. Because maybe my comments don't make sense without the larger context.

So my comments and feelings about Fed now are really conditioned by that framework, because that's all I hear on forums, websites, the commies who are so Fedcentric it's absurd. I had to listen to Jimmy Arias today who is one of the biggest alltime Fed droolers. The other guy isn't even on the court. Barely heard Zverev's name mentioned, even though he was pummeling Fed. That was true when Tsonga beat Fed as well in Toronto a few years back, all I heard was Federer ..... Federer ..... etc. etc.
After Rafa's 2013 they started thinking maybe Rafa GOAT, but In 2015-2016 that narrative got shut down when no-one could beat Djok, and god forbid he was the GOAT! (*that was sarcasm*) So then it was 3 all time greats! Pundits blow with the wind and it's not over yet anyway

My observations on Fed now are in response to renewed claims of his inestimable superiority, which I don't buy. I don't think Fed is better than Nadal or Djok (in Djok's case, he has to resurrect for this to apply, otherwise he faded too soon)
No excuse for Nadal--he could have should have beat Shap, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think Shap wouldn't have creamed Fed. I am 100% certain of this.
Luck of the draw.
It's even a saying used outside of tennis.
Shap made a fascinating remark after beating Mannarino--he talked about what would have happened if he missed one volley on MP against Dutra Silva, and his Rogers cup ended there.
He said his whole career might have unfolded differently.
Fed's been lucky since Halle. Rafa, on clay, was another story. But Rafa on HC and grass, is better than 2015-2016 but still not back to 2013 levels. It may still happen. Fed fortified his BH against Rafa, and Rafa let Fed get into his head, so that dynamic changed.
It will probably change again; Djok may come back full force in which case he will handle Fed.
OK sorry for the length i could go on for 10,000 words.
I make no claim for Rafa as GOAT, btw. Just sick of how Fed is worshipped as supreme when I don't see that level in his play.

And with that, I retire from this subject on this site.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

SOld to the devil? Where would anyone get that?
I

In the name of peace, I gave a very short simplified answer to a meta narrative that is being played out around revived GOAThood in 2017. (Also because you can't imagine how tired I am about arguing GOAThood re Fed and Nadal on sites that are 80% fed fan based. NO make that tired period.) But just this then I have to stop. Because maybe my comments don't make sense without the larger context.

So my comments and feelings about Fed now are really conditioned by that framework, because that's all I hear on forums, websites, the commies who are so Fedcentric it's absurd. I had to listen to Jimmy Arias today who is one of the biggest alltime Fed droolers. The other guy isn't even on the court. Barely heard Zverev's name mentioned, even though he was pummeling Fed. That was true when Tsonga beat Fed as well in Toronto a few years back, all I heard was Federer ..... Federer ..... etc. etc.
After Rafa's 2013 they started thinking maybe Rafa GOAT, but In 2015-2016 that narrative got shut down when no-one could beat Djok, and god forbid he was the GOAT! (*that was sarcasm*) So then it was 3 all time greats! Pundits blow with the wind and it's not over yet anyway

My observations on Fed now are in response to renewed claims of his inestimable superiority, which I don't buy. I don't think Fed is better than Nadal or Djok (in Djok's case, he has to resurrect for this to apply, otherwise he faded too soon)
No excuse for Nadal--he could have should have beat Shap, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think Shap wouldn't have creamed Fed. I am 100% certain of this.
Luck of the draw.
It's even a saying used outside of tennis.
Shap made a fascinating remark after beating Mannarino--he talked about what would have happened if he missed one volley on MP against Dutra Silva, and his Rogers cup ended there.
He said his whole career might have unfolded differently.
Fed's been lucky since Halle. Rafa, on clay, was another story. But Rafa on HC and grass, is better than 2015-2016 but still not back to 2013 levels. It may still happen. Fed fortified his BH against Rafa, and Rafa let Fed get into his head, so that dynamic changed.
It will probably change again; Djok may come back full force in which case he will handle Fed.
OK sorry for the length i could go on for 10,000 words.
I make no claim for Rafa as GOAT, btw. Just sick of how Fed is worshipped as supreme when I don't see that level in his play.

And with that, I retire from this subject on this site.

You are not a fan, understandable...I feel the same way when Carillo wants to have Nadal's baby or JMac is so happy now that he can legally marry Nadal in many states. It's OK. You'll get over it. We all do. Enjoy your favorite player without worrying about the one you do not like and you will have a happy life

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Sasha was seeded 4th in Montreal, but he was seeded 5th in DC a tourney in which Fedal did not participate. Sounds mysterious!
Can anyone explain the anomaly? I can work it out, but I thought someone might know off hand.

 

[Fiero425]

Sasha was seeded 4th in Montreal, but he was seeded 5th in DC a tourney in which Fedal did not participate. Sounds mysterious!
Can anyone explain the anomaly? I can work it out, but I thought someone might know off hand.

Without checking, I would bet someone withdrew! In Cinci, Kei's already gone before the 1st ball's hit! Players have been dropping like flies the last couple years; overplaying, overtraining, and constantly kvetching about being tired! No one's making them chase all that money and ATP points! Nole's gone for the rest of the season, but's still in the top 5! We also forgot about Stan who just left to have surgery & will be out for the rest of the season! Still high up in the rankings so people barely in the top 10 get a big boost! Then there's Murray who's deciding week to week if he's playing! I just can't remember so many top players out at the same time! -

 

[mrzz]

SOld to the devil? Where would anyone get that?
I

In the name of peace, I gave a very short simplified answer to a meta narrative that is being played out around revived GOAThood in 2017. (Also because you can't imagine how tired I am about arguing GOAThood re Fed and Nadal on sites that are 80% fed fan based. NO make that tired period.) But just this then I have to stop. Because maybe my comments don't make sense without the larger context.

So my comments and feelings about Fed now are really conditioned by that framework, because that's all I hear on forums, websites, the commies who are so Fedcentric it's absurd. I had to listen to Jimmy Arias today who is one of the biggest alltime Fed droolers. The other guy isn't even on the court. Barely heard Zverev's name mentioned, even though he was pummeling Fed. That was true when Tsonga beat Fed as well in Toronto a few years back, all I heard was Federer ..... Federer ..... etc. etc.
After Rafa's 2013 they started thinking maybe Rafa GOAT, but In 2015-2016 that narrative got shut down when no-one could beat Djok, and god forbid he was the GOAT! (*that was sarcasm*) So then it was 3 all time greats! Pundits blow with the wind and it's not over yet anyway

My observations on Fed now are in response to renewed claims of his inestimable superiority, which I don't buy. I don't think Fed is better than Nadal or Djok (in Djok's case, he has to resurrect for this to apply, otherwise he faded too soon)
No excuse for Nadal--he could have should have beat Shap, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think Shap wouldn't have creamed Fed. I am 100% certain of this.
Luck of the draw.
It's even a saying used outside of tennis.
Shap made a fascinating remark after beating Mannarino--he talked about what would have happened if he missed one volley on MP against Dutra Silva, and his Rogers cup ended there.
He said his whole career might have unfolded differently.
Fed's been lucky since Halle. Rafa, on clay, was another story. But Rafa on HC and grass, is better than 2015-2016 but still not back to 2013 levels. It may still happen. Fed fortified his BH against Rafa, and Rafa let Fed get into his head, so that dynamic changed.
It will probably change again; Djok may come back full force in which case he will handle Fed.
OK sorry for the length i could go on for 10,000 words.
I make no claim for Rafa as GOAT, btw. Just sick of how Fed is worshipped as supreme when I don't see that level in his play.

And with that, I retire from this subject on this site.

Hey, Strokes, be cool! No need to retire from any subject. We disagree here and there, fine. All cool from my side.

You are right that a lot of timed Federer is worshiped while not showing supreme level, and this final was a good example. But he did show supreme level in a few matches this year, got the results, and given his CV he gets the full time praise. Same thing would happen to Nadal or Djokovic -- maybe on different scales, but still the same.

And, again, I am not saying that you were saying that Federer sold his soul to the devil. I was just saying that opinions on internet use to get too extreme (as you complained). When you say that Federer won Wimbledon just out of lack of opposition, it is a bit too extreme for me. Not in the soul selling territory, sure, but extreme enough for me to respond (for the sake of debate, that´s all).

Anyway, everyone will get a better draw now and then. Over time it evens out. Those guys passed trough hundreds and hundreds of draws. If someone wants to make the case that one if favored over the other, be my guest...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Rafa won RG without losing a set.

Fed won Wimby without losing a set.

The opposition presented to them in the two toruneys was fairly weak.

However, neither of them won solely because of weak opposition.

Either of them would have upped their level as needed and won the respective tourneys this year. They both were certainly playing
sufficiently well to make that remark.

Having said that, Fed was playing poorly in Montreal except for the first match. The only reason he reached the finals in Montreal was due to poor competition. Any half decent player should have been able to take out the Fed that we saw in Montreal from the second round on.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Well you can drop Tsonga & Grigor already! I'm never going to give them credit again to make it to their appt.'d Rds! They stink!

Fiero, Tsonga listened to you and promptly exited in the first round in Cincy. Let us see whether Grigor follows suit.

 

[DarthFed]

I left this alone in the name of peace but my impression of that match was AZ was useless on that day,. Fed just ok.

Just getting around to some of your Fed-hate posts since I've been in Cincy watching this sadly depleted tourney.

With all due respect your hate is blinding you, Zverev was fine that final but Roger was insane and playing at his very best tournament on tour; Lightning fast grass. Again, just be grateful Wimbledon isn't played on that stuff or it'd be Fed with 9-11 and Rafa and Nole struggling to win 1.

No one on tour was taking a set that day, I knew if he played anything like that at Wimbledon he'd win. Turns out he didn't have to play anywhere near that well to school everyone there.