Rafa vs. Monfils

[calitennis127]

That's really enough, Cali. You weren't just deriding a current crop of tennis players who happen to be from France, you were deriding the entire French culture as unable to produce butch enough players to compete well in tennis.

Not compete well in general, but compete well at the highest level, yes.

And what was done to refute that? Just "oh Cali, you may be right about the current French players, but please don't be so unpleasant".

I'd love for anyone to explain how what I said about Roddick/Fish/Serena v. Tsonga & Monfils wasn't valid. I doubt though that my comments there will get a direct response, because, you know, that is just too rational a point to warrant a reply. Feelings are more important than reason evidently.

If you want to talk about the current crop of French players, fine, as to their playing, but not their being French as a contributing factor. You cloud the argument by making it cultural, which is unnecessary, and way off base. As you say, there are plenty of players from the US or other countries that you could have the same beef with. Just leave off the "Frenchness," which is offensive, and where you are way out of your depth.

You are really making me think like our French friend ricardo here. Could you please stay on the topic at hand? Speaking of which - ricardo is actually pretty tough-minded. I wish the French tennis players had some of that in them.

I asked you and everyone else a direct question about mentality, comparing the likes of Roddick, Fish, and Serena to Tsonga and Monfils. You still will not respond to that.

So let me make it simple. I'll give it one last try.

Could you imagine Roddick or Fish or Serena or Venus or even Isner, if they were as athletic as Tsonga, bowing out as Tsonga did against Ferrer in his home country's Grand Slam, when we all know that Tsonga has more firepower than Ferrer and should win if he is at his best?

Also, could you imagine Roddick or Fish or Serena or Venus or even Isner, if they were as athletic as Monfils, losing 6-1, 6-2 to Nadal on a medium-paced hardcourt?

Please answer the questions and stay on topic. It's tough to have a productive conversation when I am talking in specifics and everyone else is talking in generalities.

 

[calitennis127]

zzzz... French participants in other disciplines have already been given who are more than able to compete at the highest level refuting your argument that it's because they are french.

And that somehow crushes the possibility that any sort of deficiency in French tennis players has anything to do with their cultural background?

And did you not see how I described in detail the good and bad cultural attributes of American and Argentine tennis players? Funny how that was completely neglected. I'm afraid the likes of moxie are truly out of their depth when grappling with all of that.

 

[Moxie]

You started with the embarrassing cliche and wide-swath comment about French culture. Now you're trying to blur what you said with a tedium of detail. I'm not interested in keeping this conversation going with you, and I hope no one else will, either. It's based on a small-minded generality. Every argument you're trying to make now is just back-tracking.

 

[britbox]

Also, could you imagine Roddick or Fish or Serena or Venus or even Isner, if they were as athletic as Monfils, losing 6-1, 6-2 to Nadal on a medium-paced hardcourt?

Could you imagine Fabrice Santoro beating Pete Sampras 6-1 6-1?

 

[calitennis127]

You started with the embarrassing cliche and wide-swath comment about French culture. Now you're trying to blur what you said with a tedium of detail. I'm not interested in keeping this conversation going with you, and I hope no one else will, either. It's based on a small-minded generality. Every argument you're trying to make now is just back-tracking.

Not true at all. All someone has to do to see that is go back and read through the thread.

But I am glad that you are standing up and saying "I refuse to engage in rational argument when it makes me feel uneasy inside". At least we are clear on what type of dialogue to engage in from now on.

 

[calitennis127]

Also, could you imagine Roddick or Fish or Serena or Venus or even Isner, if they were as athletic as Monfils, losing 6-1, 6-2 to Nadal on a medium-paced hardcourt?

Could you imagine Fabrice Santoro beating Pete Sampras 6-1 6-1?

Yeah, great retort. Sampras was a great clay-court player, and I am sure he cared about Monte Carlo as much as a Grand Slam, especially the Grand Slam in his home country.

I'm sure he would have meekly lost in straight sets (two of which were 6-1 and 6-2) in the USO semifinal to someone significantly less potent a shotmaker than him, like Tsonga did to Ferrer. Ask Kieran about that one.