Rafa Is Probably the Player with the Most Match Wins Playing Poorly - Toni Nadal

[Front242]

Still haven't read part 3 yet, Moxie and looking forward to it and thanks again for the efforts in translating. Home late all week and so braindead I haven't watched any tennis yet and possibly won't till Friday. Toni is right about the possibility for women to make more money at slams for sure. Any guys playing mixed and doubles would be toast in singles due to way too much exertion. As much as best of 5 for women would probably drive me nuts, I actually think they should maybe consider it for finals like the men's Olympic final. Semis is debatable but certainly it'd make for more effort to be expended to win a slam than a normal WTA tournament if the final was best of 5. A lot of momentum swings in women's matches, more so than men's imo. Just look at Kvitova's horrendous usual scorelines along the lines of 6-2 2-6 6-2. More or less the norm for her.

At least then making the final best of 5 means they really have to earn the win a lot more than they currently do. Probably wouldn't see as many drubbings from Serena either as she'd have to control her lapses in concentration more and I think with the ebbs and flows of momentum it'd make the women's finals certainly more watchable. Note, only for finals. Best of 5 for standard WTA would be disastrous.

 

[bobvance]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

 

[Moxie]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

 

[Ricardo]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

 

[the AntiPusher]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

Toni is just the right coach for Rafa. :clap

 

[the AntiPusher]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

You may not consider Rafa as more talented than all the rest beside Federer, but he is. The numbers speak for themselves and Never Lie.

 

[Moxie]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

You may not consider Rafa as more talented than all the rest beside Federer, but he is. The numbers speak for themselves and Never Lie.

I think the word "talented" gets tossed around rather loosely. Cali has been a major pusher of the notion that there's such a *magic* thing as innate talent, and it trumps the more pedestrian notion of hard work. Since we're on Toni Nadal here, I could dig up another quote from a past interview where he says that they choose not to base themselves on talent, but on hard work. Does that mean there's not already a huge basis in talent? Clearly not. I'll make an analogy with singers. Perhaps Federer and Djokovic were born with greater range, but Rafa has taught himself to sing at 2-octaves. And, perhaps, because he realizes the work that it took to get that range, he takes it less for granted, and so, his instrument stays more often in tune. He doesn't expect to show up and hit a High-C, whereas I think Federer, (maybe less so, now,) and Djokovic, do. Nadal hits the High-C, not just when the muse hits him, but often just because he's done the preparation to make it happen.

And doesn't being able to continually adjust your game to beat your closest competitors also constitute talent?

 

[calitennis127]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

Excellent post, ricardo. Nadal is very talented but he is also a major overachiever. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[calitennis127]

And doesn't being able to continually adjust your game to beat your closest competitors also constitute talent?

Yes. But it isn't Nalbandian talent. Nor is it Roger Federer shotmaking talent. Nor is it the talent of Djokovic or Safin or even Murray when they are playing at their best.

 

[Moxie]

And doesn't being able to continually adjust your game to beat your closest competitors also constitute talent?

Yes. But it isn't Nalbandian talent. Nor is it Roger Federer shotmaking talent. Nor is it the talent of Djokovic or Safin or even Murray when they are playing at their best.

I'm sure you intended to make a point here, but it's not clear. Standing by.

 

[Moxie]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

Excellent post, ricardo. Nadal is very talented but he is also a major overachiever. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Now that we've gotten you to agree that Nadal is talented, perhaps we can work on your notion that he's an over-achiever. "Talent," and "over-achieving" may not be mutually exclusive in players like Ferrer, Berdych, Wawrinka, Tiparevic and Isner, for example, but I don't see how it works for Nadal. Reaching a higher rank than your talent might otherwise have proscribed is one thing, but achieving all that Rafa has does have to speak to a higher level of talent. Far higher. Wouldn't you say?

 

[atttomole]

This back and forth over Nadal's true level of talent is never going to end. The same things have been said many times over. I think Nadal fans are overly sensitive to Cali's comments. I do not know why they are so easily ticked-off by the comments. We all know how great Nadal is, and how versatile he has become over the years as a tennis player, and personally I think he is truly talented. I would put him at the same level with Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro, just behind the Great One.

 

[Moxie]

This back and forth over Nadal's true level of talent is never going to end. The same things have been said many times over. I think Nadal fans are overly sensitive to Cali's comments. I do not know why they are so easily ticked-off by the comments. We all know how great Nadal is, and how versatile he has become over the years as a tennis player, and personally I think he is truly talented. I would put him at the same level with Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro, just behind the Great One.

Very gracious, attomole. However, let's see if Nadal even passes the presumptive Great One, eh? :clap

 

[brokenshoelace]

And doesn't being able to continually adjust your game to beat your closest competitors also constitute talent?

Yes. But it isn't Nalbandian talent. Nor is it Roger Federer shotmaking talent. Nor is it the talent of Djokovic or Safin or even Murray when they are playing at their best.

Serious question: What does Murray do at his best that Nadal doesn't?

I find this particularly funny, and you always provide cop-out answers, since for the bulk of his career, Murray struggled to be aggressive against some elite players, had a relatively pedestrian forehand (again, when compared to the very best), and has been blown off the court by aggressive hitting more times than I can remember, and I say this as a huge fan of his game.

Murray is known for great tennis IQ, counter-punching, point construction, defense, etc... and while he's got great shotmaking ability in his own right, it is hardly the definition of shot-making you keep harping on (ie, the one displayed by Safin, Djokovic, Federer, etc...).

 

[Ricardo]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

Excellent post, ricardo. Nadal is very talented but he is also a major overachiever. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Now that we've gotten you to agree that Nadal is talented, perhaps we can work on your notion that he's an over-achiever. "Talent," and "over-achieving" may not be mutually exclusive in players like Ferrer, Berdych, Wawrinka, Tiparevic and Isner, for example, but I don't see how it works for Nadal. Reaching a higher rank than your talent might otherwise have proscribed is one thing, but achieving all that Rafa has does have to speak to a higher level of talent. Far higher. Wouldn't you say?

actually Berdych and Wawrinka would associate more with "talent" and "under-achieving". Nadal IMO has what i see more hiden-talent, one may look at his game and think he would sit between 6-8 slams but he learns and trains in a way that he improves on every other surface, and we didn't know that he could, to such efficiency. It's always easier to associate someone like Federer, who seems to be born with a great game no matter where he plays. It's probably harder to put a value on Nadal's talent level, as it's a combination of natural talent, hard work and smart learning.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The most arbitrary part about this concept of talent is the whole "natural" vs "hard work" debacle. If a player is able to execute a certain shot, why should I care how he acquired it?

 

[the AntiPusher]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

Excellent post, ricardo. Nadal is very talented but he is also a major overachiever. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The two are not mutually exclusive.
'Two events are 'mutually exclusive' if they cannot occur at the same time', if you saying that Rafa is very talented but also a major overachiever but you say its "not" mutually exclusive.. Cali.. I am confused.. can you expand upon this

 

[brokenshoelace]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

Toni is just the right coach for Rafa. :clap

Pretty much.

 

[atttomole]

This back and forth over Nadal's true level of talent is never going to end. The same things have been said many times over. I think Nadal fans are overly sensitive to Cali's comments. I do not know why they are so easily ticked-off by the comments. We all know how great Nadal is, and how versatile he has become over the years as a tennis player, and personally I think he is truly talented. I would put him at the same level with Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro, just behind the Great One.

Very gracious, attomole. However, let's see if Nadal even passes the presumptive Great One, eh? :clap

Thanks. I think that Nadal will pass the Great One when it comes to slam count. He has shown that he is very resilient, coming back from injury many times and dominating the tour

 

[Ricardo]

Great interview, and great job translating, Moxie! As much as I've been irked in the past by Uncle Toni, his candor is pretty refreshing. And I'll always be convinced he's an underrated coach.

Thanks, BobV, and good to see you around. One of my interests in translating it is to show the complexities of Toni Nadal. I think he's understood a little too one-dimensionally in English. But I would challenge you that he's underrated as a coach.

I agree with that, no ordinary coach could get Nadal so far. As talented as Rafa, i don't think he is flat out more talented than Djoker, Murray or Delpo yet he is more accomplished than them all combined together; must be doing something right.... also consider that Djoker has a good long-term coach himself!

Excellent post, ricardo. Nadal is very talented but he is also a major overachiever. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The two are not mutually exclusive.
'Two events are 'mutually exclusive' if they cannot occur at the same time', if you saying that Rafa is very talented but also a major overachiever but you say its "not" mutually exclusive.. Cali.. I am confused.. can you expand upon this

Of course it's not mutually exclusive in this case, 'talent' and 'overachiever' occur at the same time.