Rafa Is Probably the Player with the Most Match Wins Playing Poorly - Toni Nadal

[Kieran]

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

But why stay clear of what worked for so long? With a 6-1 6-3 6-0 scoreline, I'm guessing Toni made the right choice.

 

[Kieran]

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

But why stay clear of what worked for so long? With a 6-1 6-3 6-0 scoreline, I'm guessing Toni made the right choice.

Yeah, but that's not the point. It's his fear is the point. Look at the quote:

“Today I think, at this level, that you could go toe-to-toe with Federer…but let’s go with the usual tactic, that is, attack the backhand.”

At that level in 2008, he coulda played Federer using his own right hand and won. Toni often talks Rafa down, and this is a mini-theme in Rafa's autobiography, that he lacks confidence in himself. Toni talks up Rafa's opponents more than he does the man himself, which works in one way, but isn't really necessary. Rafa has no reason to look up to any other players...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

But why stay clear of what worked for so long? With a 6-1 6-3 6-0 scoreline, I'm guessing Toni made the right choice.

Yeah, but that's not the point. It's his fear is the point. Look at the quote:

“Today I think, at this level, that you could go toe-to-toe with Federer…but let’s go with the usual tactic, that is, attack the backhand.”

At that level in 2008, he coulda played Federer using his own right hand and won. Toni often talks Rafa down, and this is a mini-theme in Rafa's autobiography, that he lacks confidence in himself. Toni talks up Rafa's opponents more than he does the man himself, which works in one way, but isn't really necessary. Rafa has no reason to look up to any other players...

Kieran, I think it is Tonis' way of making sure Nadal sticks to the plan against Roger. I am sure he knows if Rafa plays like he is playing against anybody else, he still got enough game to beat Roger, but why risk it. By telling him that, he is making sure Rafa is super focused on the tactic.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

But why stay clear of what worked for so long? With a 6-1 6-3 6-0 scoreline, I'm guessing Toni made the right choice.

Yeah, but that's not the point. It's his fear is the point. Look at the quote:

“Today I think, at this level, that you could go toe-to-toe with Federer…but let’s go with the usual tactic, that is, attack the backhand.”

At that level in 2008, he coulda played Federer using his own right hand and won. Toni often talks Rafa down, and this is a mini-theme in Rafa's autobiography, that he lacks confidence in himself. Toni talks up Rafa's opponents more than he does the man himself, which works in one way, but isn't really necessary. Rafa has no reason to look up to any other players...

Oh I get what you mean, but it seems to be working, so I'm not complaining.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Thanks Moxie
Happy that Rafa won Wimbledon twice after Toni instilled in him when he was small that he had to win
Wimbledon.....no pressure of course
Cant wait to read part 3.

 

[britbox]

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

But why stay clear of what worked for so long? With a 6-1 6-3 6-0 scoreline, I'm guessing Toni made the right choice.

Yeah, but that's not the point. It's his fear is the point. Look at the quote:

“Today I think, at this level, that you could go toe-to-toe with Federer…but let’s go with the usual tactic, that is, attack the backhand.”

At that level in 2008, he coulda played Federer using his own right hand and won. Toni often talks Rafa down, and this is a mini-theme in Rafa's autobiography, that he lacks confidence in himself. Toni talks up Rafa's opponents more than he does the man himself, which works in one way, but isn't really necessary. Rafa has no reason to look up to any other players...

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Moxie]

Great job, Moxie. Very nice interview and some extra fan homework no doubt for you translating that after a hard day's work. Cheers.

I hope no one thinks I chose that interview to translate because I'm a Rafa fan, though. I try to be cautious about that. Toni is one of the most preeminent coaches in the ATP, and the interview gives his detailed take on a lot of things about his charge, and other players. If Marion Vajda gave one, I'd hope I could find a translator for it. If Lendl gave one, it would be in English. (And probably be about long enough to fit on a postage stamp. )

It's a shame not to be able to read Tony's own words. Moxie does a most excellent job but still; you guys are not getting the entire substance of Tony Nadal. Interesting fellow and sometimes a hindrance to Rafa like Kieran alluded to

Something will always be lost in translation, but I tried to make his speech colloquial sounding for English. Some intro and exclamatory phrases are hard to translate. ("Bueno...," "Hombre...," "Ostras...," and "jo-oder.") They may have come off a bit bland, and yes, I took out some swearing. Spaniards can swear like sailors, and it doesn't sound as harsh as it would in English. (And for the record, he doesn't swear that much in the interview.) Still, I'd be interested to hear what you mean, Huntingyou, if you had other examples.

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

But why stay clear of what worked for so long? With a 6-1 6-3 6-0 scoreline, I'm guessing Toni made the right choice.

Yeah, but that's not the point. It's his fear is the point. Look at the quote:

“Today I think, at this level, that you could go toe-to-toe with Federer…but let’s go with the usual tactic, that is, attack the backhand.”

At that level in 2008, he coulda played Federer using his own right hand and won. Toni often talks Rafa down, and this is a mini-theme in Rafa's autobiography, that he lacks confidence in himself. Toni talks up Rafa's opponents more than he does the man himself, which works in one way, but isn't really necessary. Rafa has no reason to look up to any other players...

Toni is, by all accounts, including Rafa's, a tough task-master. And as everyone will have noticed by now, very opinionated. He has said that, if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't have been so hard on Rafael...but having said that, it doesn't seem to change the way he deals with his nephew.

This is one reason I've pushed back at those who accuse Rafa Nadal of "false modesty." Uncle Toni has drilled into Rafa that you don't rely on your talent, and you don't rest on your laurels. Hard work and commitment to improvement are their watchwords. So, when Rafael says things in a presser that some would find incongruously self-effacing, I think you can see from Toni's interview where it comes from.

Kieran, I don't know if Rafa 'looks up to' other players, but he clearly tries hard not to take them for granted. This seems to work for him. And I, for one, think that Toni coming to NY is an advantage. In their dynamic, as odd as it may seem, no one motivates Rafa like Toni, IMO.

 

[ClayDeath]

toni is always right.

and so am I.


I have been saying this all year long: he is far from his best.

he nearly lost to dynamitrov on clay. he lost to nole in monte carlo.

he was 2 points from defeat against ferru on clay this year in a best of 3 sets foremat.

he nearly lost to nole at RG.

he got beaten by a useless shrimp at Wimbledon. and this useless shrimp wins barely 28% of his matches at slams while nadal wins nearly 90% of his matches at slams.


nadal`s movement, his backhand, and his return have been off pretty much since the end of 2010. there is also a relatively significant drop in his once supreme fitness.


he is just now putting a few things together.

he has found his drive and his hunger again and now he has a couple of goals in front of him:

1. one is the top rank

2. second is the u.s. open

his knee is a little bit better. he feels like fighting and to see where it takes him.



at any rate don't get carried away. he is far from his best.

just goes to show that even a 60%-65% nadal is too much to handle for the others if they are not on the very top of their games.

I think he will hit his stride by the time his 5th match is over at the u.s. open.

that should be good enough to bag the title. we will just have to see if it works out for him.

 

[Moxie]

toni is always right.
and so am I.

I have been saying this all year long: he is far from his best.
he nearly lost to dynamitrov on clay. he lost to nole in monte carlo.
he was 2 points from defeat against ferru on clay this year in a best of 3 sets foremat.
he nearly lost to nole at RG.
he got beaten by a useless shrimp at Wimbledon. and this useless shrimp wins barely 28% of his matches at slams while nadal wins nearly 90% of his matches at slams.

nadal`s movement, his backhand, and his return have been off pretty much since the end of 2010. there is also a relatively significant drop in his once supreme fitness.

he is just now putting a few things together.
he has found his drive and his hunger again and now he has a couple of goals in front of him:

1. one is the top rank

2. second is the u.s. open

his knee is a little bit better. he feels like fighting and see where it takes him.

at any rate don't get carried away. he is far from his best.

just goes to show that even a 60%-65% nadal is too much to handle for the others if they are not on the very top of their games.

I think he will hit his stride by the time his 5th match is over at the u.s. open.
that should be good enough to bag the title.

Toni may be right, but I think you presume a lot to say that you are, too. "Just putting a few things together?!" Tennis players are not robots. Nadal is playing some of the best HC tennis of his life. How many more shreds off of a player's ability will you demand? He's playing top-drawer. Not 60-65% of his potential, if I understand you correctly. I get Kieran's point that we hope he has kept some 'powder dry' for the USO. That's unknowable at this point. Everything about Rafa's comeback has been a surprise, really.

But that's really for another thread.

 

[Iona16]

Fab article Moxie. Thanks so much for posting.

 

[Moxie]

Fab article Moxie. Thanks so much for posting.

Thanks, Iona! Stay tuned for Pt. 3.

 

[Iona16]

Fab article Moxie. Thanks so much for posting.

Thanks, Iona! Stay tuned for Pt. 3.

Will do.

 

[ClayDeath]

toni is always right.
and so am I.

I have been saying this all year long: he is far from his best.
he nearly lost to dynamitrov on clay. he lost to nole in monte carlo.
he was 2 points from defeat against ferru on clay this year in a best of 3 sets foremat.
he nearly lost to nole at RG.
he got beaten by a useless shrimp at Wimbledon. and this useless shrimp wins barely 28% of his matches at slams while nadal wins nearly 90% of his matches at slams.

nadal`s movement, his backhand, and his return have been off pretty much since the end of 2010. there is also a relatively significant drop in his once supreme fitness.

he is just now putting a few things together.
he has found his drive and his hunger again and now he has a couple of goals in front of him:

1. one is the top rank

2. second is the u.s. open

his knee is a little bit better. he feels like fighting and see where it takes him.

at any rate don't get carried away. he is far from his best.

just goes to show that even a 60%-65% nadal is too much to handle for the others if they are not on the very top of their games.

I think he will hit his stride by the time his 5th match is over at the u.s. open.
that should be good enough to bag the title.

Toni may be right, but I think you presume a lot to say that you are, too. "Just putting a few things together?!" Tennis players are not robots. Nadal is playing some of the best HC tennis of his life. How many more shreds off of a player's ability will you demand? He's playing top-drawer. Not 60-65% of his potential, if I understand you correctly. I get Kieran's point that we hope he has kept some 'powder dry' for the USO. That's unknowable at this point. Everything about Rafa's comeback has been a surprise, really.

But that's really for another thread.

what do you mean that "tony may be right"?


how about getting a little bit grounded in the reality for a damn change?


I "presume" nothing.


I tell it exactly like it is long before it happens. I know nadal`s game better than anyone alive or dead.

I have also played the sport at a very high level. in fact my game was lot like his game except that I had a single handed backhand. I know and understand his limitations.


and this not really rocket science anyway:


nadal is far from his best.


roger had 44 unforced errors and he was right in the thick of that hunt in cincy. In fact he should have won in straights against your nadal who you claim is playing the best tennis of his life.

32 year old man with a bad back and a losing record against nadal had him on a string like a rat.


well my nadal has a lot of work to do.

others have dropped their level and he has showed up with renewed vigor and energy.


now we will see if he can finish the job.


that was a good match for roger. nadal made some last minute adjustments and got control of that match.

like baron said, 2 games basically decided that deal.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Actually, Toni is talking BS there. At his 2008 level, Rafa could have steered clear of the backhand and still have handily taken out Roger at RG. Toni is very uncomplimentary towards his nephew, me reckons...

At first glance , it comes off as hogwash but if you think about it, you cant cuddle or just give warm fuzzes to a player such as Rafa. It appears Toni's methods of motivation Rafa may seems harsh but it very similar to what a marine sergeant would do to a new enlisted man, break em down, keep them on the edge to be the world's perfect killing machine.

Good read Moxie, keep it coming

 

[ClayDeath]

guys toni is just realistic.


an athete like nadal comes around once every 50,000 years. he just wants to make sure that nadal maximizes his potential.

what is wrong with that.

 

[Moxie]

toni is always right.
and so am I.

I have been saying this all year long: he is far from his best.
he nearly lost to dynamitrov on clay. he lost to nole in monte carlo.
he was 2 points from defeat against ferru on clay this year in a best of 3 sets foremat.
he nearly lost to nole at RG.
he got beaten by a useless shrimp at Wimbledon. and this useless shrimp wins barely 28% of his matches at slams while nadal wins nearly 90% of his matches at slams.

nadal`s movement, his backhand, and his return have been off pretty much since the end of 2010. there is also a relatively significant drop in his once supreme fitness.

he is just now putting a few things together.
he has found his drive and his hunger again and now he has a couple of goals in front of him:

1. one is the top rank

2. second is the u.s. open

his knee is a little bit better. he feels like fighting and see where it takes him.

at any rate don't get carried away. he is far from his best.

just goes to show that even a 60%-65% nadal is too much to handle for the others if they are not on the very top of their games.

I think he will hit his stride by the time his 5th match is over at the u.s. open.
that should be good enough to bag the title.

Toni may be right, but I think you presume a lot to say that you are, too. "Just putting a few things together?!" Tennis players are not robots. Nadal is playing some of the best HC tennis of his life. How many more shreds off of a player's ability will you demand? He's playing top-drawer. Not 60-65% of his potential, if I understand you correctly. I get Kieran's point that we hope he has kept some 'powder dry' for the USO. That's unknowable at this point. Everything about Rafa's comeback has been a surprise, really.

But that's really for another thread.

what do you mean that "tony may be right"?
how about getting a little bit grounded in the reality for a damn change?
I "presume" nothing.
I tell it exactly like it is long before it happens. I know nadal`s game better than anyone alive or dead.
I have also played the sport at a very high level. in fact my game was lot like his game except that I had a single handed backhand. I know and understand his limitations.
and this not really rocket science anyway:
nadal is far from his best.
roger had 44 unforced errors and he was right in the thick of that hunt in cincy. In fact he should have won in straights against your nadal who you claim is playing the best tennis of his life.
32 year old man with a bad back and a losing record against nadal had him on a string like a rat.
well my nadal has a lot of work to do.
others have dropped their level and he has showed up with renewed vigor and energy.
now we will see if he can finish the job.
that was a good match for roger. nadal made some last minute adjustments and got control of that match.
like baron said, 2 games basically decided that deal.

Well, that was a fairly grumpy response. You're very sure of your POV, but have no time for mine. Fine, and good luck with that. So far, your assessment of where Nadal is, and prognostications for how he will do in the future have been off the mark. So I'm not sure how you know Nadal's game better than anyone else. IMO, we've got to just let things ride right now. Everything about Rafa's comeback has been a surprise...wins and losses.

 

[Garro]

roger had 44 unforced errors and he was right in the thick of that hunt in cincy. In fact he should have won in straights against your nadal who you claim is playing the best tennis of his life.
32 year old man with a bad back and a losing record against nadal had him on a string like a rat

On Nadal's worst (outdoor) surface and at Federer's best MS tournament. Federer was also on fire for a good chunk of that match, so I can't really see that as a negative for Nadal. As for the other matches: Nadal usually has a few close ones on clay and we all know what Nole is capable of. In the broader picture, Nadal has not only made 11/12 tournament finals this year, but he's won his first tournaments on hards since 2010, and won back to back Masters on hards, something he has never come close to doing before. All of that bodes well for him heading into the US Open.

 

[ClayDeath]

what is the latest line?

are nole and murray still the favorite for the title?


and if they are then that spells it out right there.

nobody has to take mine or tony`s word for it.


I think nadal will take the title but he needs a little bit of help: andy has to land in nole`s 1/2


nadal is playing with a sense of urgency and renewed vigor and energy but 2 weeks don't make him the favorite for the crown at the open.


again what is the latest line? lets see if it changes tomorrow.


I have been saying all year long that nadal is far from his best.


now what we have learned is this:


nadal is playing hard and he is playing with a sense of urgency. he has put together 2 good weeks that have netted him 2 hard court events.


we have also learned that the others are not in top form at the moment. that alone improves nadal`s chances.

nole has been off and it shows.

roger has had back issues all year long.

andy suffered from back issues and but got going at queens.

he has not fared well lately either but I think he will get on a bit of a roll at flushing meadows. it his crown. he will fight for it.


still it would be better for nadal`s chances if nole and andy battle it out in the semis for 4-5 hours.


then nadal only has to beat one of them.


so given the right draw, nadal may have them where he wants them. he has enough confidence and momentum at the moment to finish the job at flushing meadows.


this still does not mean that he is playing his best tennis. he is far from his best tennis.


I think he played his best tennis in 2008 and 2010.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Hey Samson, about being "always right," didn't you predict he'll get hammered by Nole in Montreal, and that he has no chance in Cincinnati? Yeah, I thought you did.