Novak Djokovic's Vaccine Stance & Visa Troubles

[kskate2]

Thankfully the drama is finally over, until Australia 2023....

Should have been over days ago. They weren't going to change the policy this late in the game, period. He should have withdrawn before the quali's started like Zed did. But then some of that isn't his fault. As we have discussed, the tourney should have a cutoff date of when a player needs to withdraw and it should happen before quali's start.

 

[Moxie]

Here's what I mean, and what I thought you were also referring to, but in a different way. The tournament would have been wise to ensure that all the players going into the draw had presented proofs that they are eligible to enter the country. Because if they can't enter the country, they can't play, right?

But what I took you to be saying was that the tournament should single Novak out and demand that he answer the question, before the draw is made - based upon the obvious likelihood that he's unvaccinated. My feeling on this is that it would be unfair to single him out in this way. That they either ask everyone, or no-one.

Now, this is not a contradiction of my view that there maybe back channel stuff going on. If there is, it would by nature be informal. But to formally insist he presents his bona fides while not asking the same of others would be unfair. He may not even answer, and they have no ruling in place that they can force on him.

I do understand the distinctions between the treatment of foreign citizens and Americans with regards to the vaccine, and also I understand that the USO have no say in government policy...

Ok, I get you know, but a couple of things. I was very specific about the question that I thought they should ask Novak's people: do you have a valid visa to enter the US as of now, as we're making the draw: yes or no? I very specifically did NOT say they should ask him if he got vaccinated. That is not germane to their lives, if it is not a requirement to play the US Open. They don't have to know or care how he got it, only that he could come and play, since they were making the draw.

When you say they shouldn't single him out to ask if he's got a visa to play in the US, you're asking a theoretic fairness question. I was thinking of it in more practical terms. They don't have to ask anyone else...they're all already in the US playing in other tournaments, so clearly they got their visas. The only one still in Europe was Zverev, but he withdrew already.

 

[Kieran]

Ok, I get you know, but a couple of things. I was very specific about the question that I thought they should ask Novak's people: do you have a valid visa to enter the US as of now, as we're making the draw: yes or no? I very specifically did NOT say they should ask him if he got vaccinated. That is not germane to their lives, if it is not a requirement to play the US Open. They don't have to know or care how he got it, only that he could come and play, since they were making the draw.

I understand but - it’s what they’re asking him. They’re asking that question because of the vaccine issue and no other. He’d be under no obligation to respond, and that leaves them nowhere.

I get what you mean about the other players having arrived, and it’s a good point, but the problem - if one happened to exist - is there because they didn’t put a safety net between them and the possibility of Novak causing them a little fire to put out if he withdrew after the draw.

That’s not his problem, but anyway, now it never became a problem. I’m not concerned about the qualies being affected…

 

[Moxie]

I understand but - it’s what they’re asking him. They’re asking that question because of the vaccine issue and no other. He’d be under no obligation to respond, and that leaves them nowhere.

I get what you mean about the other players having arrived, and it’s a good point, but the problem - if one happened to exist - is there because they didn’t put a safety net between them and the possibility of Novak causing them a little fire to put out if he withdrew after the draw.

That’s not his problem, but anyway, now it never became a problem. I’m not concerned about the qualies being affected…

Everyone knows why Novak can't currently get a visa into the US or Canada, but I still say the question isn't whether or not he's vaccinated, it's whether or not he was going to be able to get into the US, or should the make the draw without him. Novak has made it the world's business, his vaccination status. That's on hm.

The problem of not having a "safety net" for a player not withdrawing before the draw is made, is basically Novak-created. We see (above) that there is one, even if the fines are laughable for top players (thanks @tented for that.) But it doesn't happen that often, right? Murray has been cited more than once, and that's about the only example anyone can think of. Djokovic has done it twice this year, but not due to injury or illness. And once was really down to his carelessness, and the tournament letting it happen. It's not one of those things that I would call a huge problem in tennis...until Novak decided to test the immigration policies of various countries.

 

[Kieran]

The problem of not having a "safety net" for a player not withdrawing before the draw is made, is basically Novak-created.

I agree that Novak was completely wrong in Australia, but actually the safety net might have been thought of without having to think of Novak. Since Covid, things have changed, and now there are still countries with strict entry rules, although for the Slams I think the US is the last man standing in that regard. No matter. It might have been wise for the tournament to think they’d need a safety net regardless of what Novak has done. Imagine if all the unvaccinated players still entered as a protest of sorts, and didn’t withdraw?

It would seem sensible anyway for the tournament to insist on checking the players visas before doing the draw. We’re not in old fashioned, pre-covid territory anymore, and unusually it’s not straightforward to enter certain countries.

Anyway, as I say, I’ll glad he withdrew, I had a feeling he would and that all this was taken out of proportion..

 

[tented]

Novak has allowed himself to be hit hard this year in terms of rankings points:

- AO - 2,000
- IW - 1,000
- Miami - 1,000
- Rogers Cup - 1,000
- Cincinnati - 1,000
- US Open - 2,000

That’s 8,000 points he could have acquired.

(I didn’t include Wimbledon for obvious reasons.)

 

[rafanoy1992]

Novak has allowed himself to be hit hard this year in terms of rankings points:

- AO - 2,000
- IW - 1,000
- Miami - 1,000
- Rogers Cup - 1,000
- Cincinnati - 1,000
- US Open - 2,000

That’s 8,000 points he could have acquired.

(I didn’t include Wimbledon for obvious reasons.)

Yup! But the only thing that will truly hurt him this year are the numbers 23 > 21.

(I am not saying anything definitive yet!)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Pete Bodo on Twitter, dosen't mince his words.

"What don't Novak Djokovic and his fans get about the simple transaction we all make hundreds at times in everyday life:
In order to do this, you need to do this first,
"Sorry, no sympathy for all the holistic, self-regarding my body is a holy temple BS"

 

[rafanoy1992]

I am curious to see if the Prime Minister of Australia will drop the ban on Djokovic. Hopefully, he should make a decision by December, so the tournament and Djokovic will know if Djokovic will able to play the tournament or not.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I am curious to see if the Prime Minister of Australia will drop the ban on Djokovic. Hopefully, he should make a decision by December, so the tournament and Djokovic will know if Djokovic will able to play the tournament or not.

It is not up to the Prime Minister, it is up to our Immigration Minister, btw we have a new government since Novak was deported, though the new Prime Minster, who was the opposition minister at the time was putting pressure for Novak to be deported
Novak will have to apply for a new visa to our Immigration department for starters. giving a reason why he should be granted a new visa.
BTW People coming into Australia, any state do not have to be vaccinated.

 

[Moxie]

I agree that Novak was completely wrong in Australia, but actually the safety net might have been thought of without having to think of Novak. Since Covid, things have changed, and now there are still countries with strict entry rules, although for the Slams I think the US is the last man standing in that regard. No matter. It might have been wise for the tournament to think they’d need a safety net regardless of what Novak has done. Imagine if all the unvaccinated players still entered as a protest of sorts, and didn’t withdraw?

Just to be clear, it has been said more than a few times in the media that basically all of top 100 men are vaccinated against Covid, so I'm not sure anyone is going around sneakily making a protest.

It would seem sensible anyway for the tournament to insist on checking the players visas before doing the draw. We’re not in old fashioned, pre-covid territory anymore, and unusually it’s not straightforward to enter certain countries.

If they come into the country as non-citizens, then they, de facto, have a valid visa. Usually the players arrive in plenty of time. In the case of the USO, as with the AO, Novak, alone, was very publicly staying back hoping that some last minute change or reprieve would get him in, and everyone knew why. The visas have to be checked eventually, because they have to be special ones for athletes and performers that make it legal for them to work and get paid (at least in the US, but probably for much of the rest of the word, too.) And hopefully it's not a thing at all in another 6 months - year. And the only one who will have caused these problems and visa-watches will have been Novak.

 

[Kieran]

Pete Bodo on Twitter, dosen't mince his words.

"What don't Novak Djokovic and his fans get about the simple transaction we all make hundreds at times in everyday life:
In order to do this, you need to do this first,
"Sorry, no sympathy for all the holistic, self-regarding my body is a holy temple BS"

I’m sure he’s old enough to know that there are people who think the absolute opposite to this, they’re entitled to, and they maybe right? How many jabs is Bodo on now, anyway?

 

[TheSicilian]

Yup! But the only thing that will truly hurt him this year are the numbers 23 > 21.

(I am not saying anything definitive yet!)

1 match at a time!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I’m sure he’s old enough to know that there are people who think the absolute opposite to this, they’re entitled to, and they maybe right? How many jabs is Bodo on now, anyway?

I kinda fell of my chair when charming Bodo from years a go at ,Tennis.Com wrote that, he isnt the first person to say My Body Is My Temple BS from Novak.
Bodo is vaccinated from what I have read.

 

[Kieran]

Just to be clear, it has been said more than a few times in the media that basically all of top 100 men are vaccinated against Covid, so I'm not sure anyone is going around sneakily making a protest.

I think you know the point I’m making. They know that players need to have a valid visa more so than usual so it’s good business to cover themselves and their draw with a sensible see-first policy. And though it’s far fetched, a protest wouldn’t be sneaky.

If they come into the country as non-citizens, then they, de facto, have a valid visa. Usually the players arrive in plenty of time. In the case of the USO, as with the AO, Novak, alone, was very publicly staying back hoping that some last minute change or reprieve would get him in, and everyone knew why. The visas have to be checked eventually, because they have to be special ones for athletes and performers that make it legal for them to work and get paid (at least in the US, but probably for much of the rest of the word, too.) And hopefully it's not a thing at all in another 6 months - year. And the only one who will have caused these problems and visa-watches will have been Novak.

And good for him. Like the rest of the players, he’s looking after himself. I don’t get the self-righteousness shown towards him. It’s not like Australia. He’s not committing any crime. He’s correct to think of himself first and foremost in this situation…

 

[rafanoy1992]

It is not up to the Prime Minister, it is up to our Immigration Minister, btw we have a new government since Novak was deported, though the new Prime Minster, who was the opposition minister at the time was putting pressure for Novak to be deported
Novak will have to apply for a new visa to our Immigration department for starters. giving a reason why he should be granted a new visa.
BTW People coming into Australia, any state do not have to be vaccinated.

I see. I wonder what the deadline will be for applying a new visa.

 

[Kieran]

I kinda fell of my chair when charming Bodo from years a go at ,Tennis.Com wrote that, he isnt the first person to say My Body Is My Temple BS from Novak.
Bodo is vaccinated from what I have read.

Novak has a very valid and sensible reason not to get jabbed…and jabbed…and jabbed…and jabbed…and jabbed…

 

[Moxie]

I think you know the point I’m making. They know that players need to have a valid visa more so than usual so it’s good business to cover themselves and their draw with a sensible see-first policy. And though it’s far fetched, a protest wouldn’t be sneaky.

Did you miss the part where I said that there really AREN'T any other players that aren't vaccinated?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Novak has a very valid and sensible reason not to get jabbed…and jabbed…and jabbed…and jabbed…and jabbed…

That is his decision

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I see. I wonder what the deadline will be for applying a new visa.

I will check and get back to you,