Nitto ATP Finals 2022, Turin, Italy

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa needs to beat Ruud in straight sets
Fritz to beat Ruud and FAA both in straight sets, then Rafa may still have a chance.....
Yes Tented this has the 'hallmarks' of 2009 for Rafa

 

[El Dude]

Rafa needs to beat Ruud in straight sets
Fritz to beat Ruud and FAA both in straight sets, then Rafa may still have a chance.....
Yes Tented this has the 'hallmarks' of 2009 for Rafa

OK, that might be true - because a two player tie is broken by H2H (so Rafa would lose against Fritz or FAA), but a three- player tie goes to % of sets won, then % of games won, then highest rank at the start of the tournament.

So there's a chance...but it is very, very slim.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

OK, that might be true - because a two player tie is broken by H2H (so Rafa would lose against Fritz or FAA), but a three- player tie goes to % of sets won, then % of games won, then highest rank at the start of the tournament.

So there's a chance...but it is very, very slim.

Yep it is very slim

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

If I was Rafa I would get FAA, Sinner, Alcarez to visit the Academy in December..then he will be back

Rafa is playing his South American exho with Ruud remember starting in late November lol!

 

[the AntiPusher]

As I see it, there are three or four reasons a player keeps playing:

1. To win (and/or break records)
2. For love of playing
3. Money
4. To stay away from home/wife/family (e.g., Tom Brady)

Hard to know what factors are at play for Rafa. He's always been a humble guy, though obviously he wanted to catch Federer in the rankings back in the day, and more recently the Slams. He can retire knowing he surpassed Roger's Slam count, but has to realistically feel that Novak will be harder to keep ahead of.

Could it be love of playing? I think for Rafa 1 and 2 go hand in hand. Again, he seems less driven by records than Novak or even Roger, but he'll only love playing as long as he feels like he can win at Slams. Meaning, he loves playing to win.

I don't think money is a factor - he's got plenty. As for the 4th, who knows how he's taking to being a dad. For some it is hard, especially at first, because all of a sudden you become #2 to your wife, plus all the dirty diapers, crying, etc. For all it changes your life. In fact, this is another factor: When a man procreates, it softens the testosterone-driven urge to win/conquer. Being a father is more remarkable and magical than any tennis accomplishment, or at least deeper and more long-lasting. He seems like the type of guy who could really settle into it. I can really imagine him casting fishing rods with his son or daughter in the Mediterranean...

El dude..why didn't you write this type of post in February or JUNE of this year when Nadal was pretty much unbeatable? Give it a rest trying to push Rafa out too pasture. Novak went through a funk like this plenty of times yet you didn't question his desire to be competitive.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa is playing his South American exho with Ruud remember starting in late November lol!

That's not enough he needs the grind of a tournament play. Even my ole azz knees can play an exho. Heck, call up Roger and play sets or some of the retired Frenchman like JowilllieTs or Giles Simon. Kieran and El Dude, remember Rocky 3 when Apollo Creed came out of retirement to rejuvenate Rocky's career.

 

[El Dude]

El dude..why didn't you write this type of post in February or JUNE of this year when Nadal was pretty much unbeatable? Give it a rest trying to push Rafa out too pasture. Novak went through a funk like this plenty of times yet you didn't question his desire to be competitive.

Oh, brother! You sure are making stuff up that isn't actually there. Why is it that you think everyone not raving about how amazing Rafa is, is automatically against him? I'm not trying to push him out to pasture, just speculating.

In case you missed it, I actually said some nice things about Rafa.

 

[tented]

As I see it, there are three or four reasons a player keeps playing:

1. To win (and/or break records)
2. For love of playing
3. Money
4. To stay away from home/wife/family (e.g., Tom Brady)

Hard to know what factors are at play for Rafa. He's always been a humble guy, though obviously he wanted to catch Federer in the rankings back in the day, and more recently the Slams. He can retire knowing he surpassed Roger's Slam count, but has to realistically feel that Novak will be harder to keep ahead of.

Could it be love of playing? I think for Rafa 1 and 2 go hand in hand. Again, he seems less driven by records than Novak or even Roger, but he'll only love playing as long as he feels like he can win at Slams. Meaning, he loves playing to win.

I don't think money is a factor - he's got plenty. As for the 4th, who knows how he's taking to being a dad. For some it is hard, especially at first, because all of a sudden you become #2 to your wife, plus all the dirty diapers, crying, etc. For all it changes your life. In fact, this is another factor: When a man procreates, it softens the testosterone-driven urge to win/conquer. Being a father is more remarkable and magical than any tennis accomplishment, or at least deeper and more long-lasting. He seems like the type of guy who could really settle into it. I can really imagine him casting fishing rods with his son or daughter in the Mediterranean...

I also think they don’t know anything else, really. I seriously wonder if players such as Nadal, Federer, and Serena even remember a time when they didn’t play tennis. (I’m not sure about Djokovic, because of his history of growing up amid a war.) Their lives have been structured around it for as long as they can remember, so I suspect they can’t easily envision themselves doing anything else. Some retire, then come back within a year or two. Sometimes more (Kim Clijsters, Borg); sometimes less (Serena is already hinting at playing again).

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

That's not enough he needs the grind of a tournament play. Even my ole azz knees can play an exho. Heck, call up Roger and play sets or some of the retired Frenchman like JowilllieTs or Giles Simon. Kieran and El Dude, remember Rocky 3 when Apollo Creed came out of retirement to rejuvenate Rocky's career.

I take your point about the exho play. Rafa hasnt play tournament tennis since the USO, he is a type of player that needs the rhythm of tournament play, this has been evident so far in Turin, apart from the surface which dosent suit his game

 

[El Dude]

I also think they don’t know anything else, really. I seriously wonder if players such as Nadal, Federer, and Serena even remember a time when they didn’t play tennis. (I’m not sure about Djokovic, because of his history of growing up amid a war.) Their lives have been structured around it for as long as they can remember, so I suspect they can’t easily envision themselves doing anything else. Some retire, then come back within a year or two. Sometimes more (Kim Clijsters, Borg); sometimes less (Serena is already hinting at playing again).

Thou Shalt Never Mention Borg's "Comeback!" Haha.

Seriously though, yeah, I hear you. This is true of all sports, though maybe tennis more so than others as you tend to start a bit younger. It is interesting scanning through various Wikipedia pages of lesser-than-great players, to see what they're up to. Most end up with second careers of some kind - perhaps because they have to.

Some become coaches, a few get jobs in the booth (e.g. Courier), while a very few have sort of a multi-facet, living icon status - like John McEnroe, who is pretty much a professional character. Rafa has his academy, so I can imagine him being a Gandalf figure to young players. But I mostly imagine him fishing in the blue waters...

 

[tented]

Thou Shalt Never Mention Borg's "Comeback!" Haha.

Still too soon?

Seriously though, yeah, I hear you. This is true of all sports, though maybe tennis more so than others as you tend to start a bit younger.

Exactly, they start younger (some were 4-5 when they first picked up a racket). Plus it’s not a team sport, so their whole identity is based on themselves as tennis players. Winning is their addiction. (I think it was Serena who said she hates losing more than she loves winning.)

It is interesting scanning through various Wikipedia pages of lesser-than-great players, to see what they're up to. Most end up with second careers of some kind - perhaps because they have to.

Some become coaches, a few get jobs in the booth (e.g. Courier), while a very few have sort of a multi-facet, living icon status - like John McEnroe, who is pretty much a professional character. Rafa has his academy, so I can imagine him being a Gandalf figure to young players. But I mostly imagine him fishing in the blue waters...

Yeah, there’s a Brokeback Mountain-esque “I don’t know how to quit you” aspect to many of their post-tennis lives.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I take your point about the exho play. Rafa hasnt play tournament tennis since the USO, he is a type of player that needs the rhythm of tournament play, this has been evident so far in Turin, apart from the surface which dosent suit his game

Exactly, the surface isnt very Rafa friendly but that's not an excuse.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I also think they don’t know anything else, really. I seriously wonder if players such as Nadal, Federer, and Serena even remember a time when they didn’t play tennis. (I’m not sure about Djokovic, because of his history of growing up amid a war.) Their lives have been structured around it for as long as they can remember, so I suspect they can’t easily envision themselves doing anything else. Some retire, then come back within a year or two. Sometimes more (Kim Clijsters, Borg); sometimes less (Serena is already hinting at playing again).

Are you serious Serena is thinking about returning to the tour

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Exactly, the surface isnt very Rafa friendly but that's not an excuse.

I didnt mean to make it as a excuse, Rafa is very rusty in his game presently

 

[tented]

Are you serious Serena is think about returning to the tour

Oh, yes!

Serena Williams Says She Is 'Not Retired' and that Chances Of Tennis Comeback Are 'Very High'

 

[El Dude]

Still too soon?

Well...more so that it tarnishes the legend. It was almost like Borg was caricaturing himself - his whole retro look (which I like, but...), the wooden racket, and the fact that he basically sucked.

Exactly, they start younger (some were 4-5 when they first picked up a racket). Plus it’s not a team sport, so their whole identity is based on themselves as tennis players. Winning is their addiction. (I think it was Serena who said she hates losing more than she loves winning.)

Which is crazy to think....we basically love watching millionaire addicts beat each other up.

Yeah, there’s a Brokeback Mountain-esque “I don’t know how to quit you” aspect to many of their post-tennis lives.

Someone needs to paste Rafa and Roger onto a BBM poster.

 

[tented]

Which is crazy to think....we basically love watching millionaire addicts beat each other up.

 

[Tennis_Steve]

Fritz v Ruud - at last, a guest tosser, that can actually toss a coin

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Fritz v Ruud - at last, a guest tosser, that can actually toss a coin

Vamos Fritz!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Fritz I noticed you didnt get 'the memo' that you had to defeat Ruud in straight sets lol!