Nitto ATP Finals, 2019, London

[Andy22]

how is nadal out of wtf? he won 2 out of 3 matches epic comebacks played beast mode tennis after first match yet he's out this is why this super exhibition event sucks it can be like that gamesetandmatch said also all the players are injured or wore out by the time wtf starts so its like winning 250 event lol.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

1. Because you have only 3 players in each group, don't you have a potential tie in one or more groups, before the semis? Say players from groups 2 & 4 have a win and a loss, and sets and even points are even? How/when do you play that off?

Each group is completely separate. Only the winner of each group moves on. There are three players in each group and there will be three matches. There are only two possible situations after all RR matches in a group is completed: 2-1-0 and 1-1-1. In the case of 2-1-0, the player with two wins obviously moves on. In the case of 1-1-1 situation you breaks the tie based on % of sets won and if tied even after that, based on % of games won.

Note that as a result, it is not in the interest of any player to tank their matches. Not only that it is no in their interest to tank their matches, it is not even in their interest to tank a set or for that matter even a game.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The main thing about tanking, is that every player gets 200 points per win in Round Robin. That's a solid chunk of points - although an ATP 250's worth. Even if they've already been eliminated from the SF, that's not something you just tank away.

Here is another way, the system is susceptible to manipulation. Often a player can decide which two advance based on whether he wins a match in two sets or three sets. Assuming the said player can definitely win, he might tank a set in order to prevent a particular player from advancing. This would not even affect the points and the prize money as he is really winning the match, but only "choosing to" lose a set.

 

[Moxie]

how is nadal out of wtf? he won 2 out of 3 matches epic comebacks played beast mode tennis after first match yet he's out this is why this super exhibition event sucks its all rigged also all the players are injured or wore out by the time wtf starts so its like winning 250 event lol.

Well he sucked in his first match, though, which really hurt his chances. You might also ask why Roger could have beaten Djokovic so comprehensibly and only come out 2nd in his group. It's a formula. And no matter what @GameSetAndMath says, it's not rigged. Calling it a super-exhibition or a 250-equivalent is sour grapes. I have other issues with it, described above, but it being rigged or a joke is not amongst them.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Well he sucked in his first match, though, which really hurt his chances. You might also ask why Roger could have beaten Djokovic so comprehensibly and only come out 2nd in his group. It's a formula. And no matter what @GameSetAndMath says, it's not rigged. Calling it a super-exhibition or a 250-equivalent is sour grapes. I have other issues with it, described above, but it being rigged or a joke is not amongst them.

I never said it is rigged. Stop putting words into my mouth.

 

[Moxie]

Here is another way, the system is susceptible to manipulation. Often a player can decide which two advance based on whether he wins a match in two sets or three sets. Assuming the said player can definitely win, he might tank a set in order to prevent a particular player from advancing. This would not even affect the points and the prize money as he is really winning the match, but only "choosing to" lose a set.

This is still kind of paranoid, though, right? I haven't imaginationed myself all the way through your alternate option, so I'm not sure why it's more tank-proof, but in theory I like the 12 players better.

 

[Moxie]

I never said it is rigged. Stop putting words into my mouth.

But you did say it was susceptible to manipulation. I was responding to the poster who did say it was rigged. I don't think it's unfair to mention you, given that you're right now saying that it can be jiggered.

 

[monfed]

dull's put his empty trophy cabinet for sale -

 

[GameSetAndMath]

But you did say it was susceptible to manipulation. I was responding to the poster who did say it was rigged. I don't think it's unfair to mention you, given that you're right now saying that it can be jiggered.

Yes, I did say and stick to it. It is susceptible to manipulation. But, the way you are phrasing your sentence, "No matter what GSM says, it is not rigged", it appears as though I claimed it was rigged.

"rigged" is totally different from "susceptible to manipulation". Rigged means the organizers themselves are creating a bogus scheme with vested interests. "Susceptible to manipulation" means the system is not perfect and can be cheated on by some players under some circumstances.

 

[Moxie]

dull's put his empty trophy cabinet for sale -

While he has loads of them filled to groaning, and plenty waiting for the next AO, RG and Wimbledon trophies, this one didn't fit with the decor in his new place with Mery. Tsitsipas won the high bid on it, and I expect he'll fill it soon!

 

[Moxie]

Yes, I did say and stick to it. It is susceptible to manipulation. But, the way you are phrasing your sentence, "No matter what GSM says, it is not rigged", it appears as though I claimed it was rigged.

"rigged" is totally different from "susceptible to manipulation". Rigged means the organizers themselves are creating a bogus scheme with vested interests. "Susceptible to manipulation" means the system is not perfect and can be cheated on by some players under some circumstances.

Forgive me if I implied that you said the tournament was rigged. But I still think your theory is paranoid.

 

[Andy22]

Well he sucked in his first match, though, which really hurt his chances. You might also ask why Roger could have beaten Djokovic so comprehensibly and only come out 2nd in his group. It's a formula. And no matter what @GameSetAndMath says, it's not rigged. Calling it a super-exhibition or a 250-equivalent is sour grapes. I have other issues with it, described above, but it being rigged or a joke is not amongst them.

ok fair enough you don't agree with me or gamesetAndmatch but you also have issues this joke event which shows why this wtf needs be different do you know if its in O2 arena next year I know beautiful Italy getting it soon.

 

[Moxie]

ok fair enough you don't agree with me or gamesetAndmatch but you also have issues this joke event which shows why this wtf needs be different do you know if its in O2 arena next year I know beautiful Italy getting it soon.

Next year in Torino...a city I lived in and love very much. I hope it brings Rafa good luck!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Forgive me if I implied that you said the tournament was rigged. But I still think your theory is paranoid.

I am not being paranoid. You are just being naïve. The system is not only susceptible to manipulation; it has actually been manipulated. Also, sometimes it is tricky to determine whether people are manipulating it or it just happens naturally - it may not be overt always.

 

[Andy22]

I did not mean to say wtf was shandy it was a typo I since edited my post but I do agree with gamesetandmatch on the topic.

 

[Moxie]

I am not being paranoid. You are just being naïve. The system is not only susceptible to manipulation; it has actually been manipulated. Also, sometimes it is tricky to determine whether people are manipulating it or it just happens naturally - it may not be overt always.

OK, so your example was badminton. When do you think it's been manipulated in the ATP finals? It's ok if you're just insinuating, but when would you insinuated it, latest possibility?

 

[rafanoy1992]

Next year in Torino...a city I lived in and love very much. I hope it brings Rafa good luck!

Actually, they won't change in Torino until 2021, Moxie.

 

[Moxie]

Actually, they won't change in Torino until 2021, Moxie.

Oh, bummer! Are you sure? Another year at that echo chamber and hastily-constructed court that is the O2?

 

[rafanoy1992]

Oh, bummer! Are you sure? Another year at that echo chamber and hastily-constructed court that is the O2?

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/turin-to-host-atp-finals-from-2021-to-2025

Yeah, sorry to burst your excitement Moxie

 

[Moxie]

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/turin-to-host-atp-finals-from-2021-to-2025

Yeah, sorry to burst your excitement Moxie

Man, you did. Just when I'd gone all sanguine about Rafa not moving on today. OK, only kidding. Being buffered by disappointment is part of life. :heart: I'll be excited for it to move to Turin when it comes, then.