NFL 2016-2017

[Federberg]

Yeah, Vick had insane athletic ability - that's one guy you've got to think could have done so much more in the game. Maybe his love of dogs got in the way of football.

Absolutely. So frustrating with some of these guys. Insane talent, but they fritter it away. Hope OBJ learns yesterday's lesson

 

[Federberg]

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/1/9/14207346/aaron-rodgers-packers-giants-cowboys-preview

 

[DarthFed]

Lists for top QB's are getting harder and harder to make due to the changes in the game. The fact that you can't truly hit a QB anymore and the new wide receiver rules which went into effect in 2007 (I think) have made it far easier for QB's to pass today and it makes for much greater longevity. Who knows what Marino, Montana, Favre, Unitas, etc. would do if they were playing in today's league. Favre had his best year ever at age 39 on a new team with no good wide receivers, that should tell you a lot.

And I actually agree with BB about Favre, he'd often make you scream in joy and anger multiple times per game, but in the end his risk-taking and all the turnovers that came with it keep him from being near the very top despite all the volume stats. I would probably have him in the top 10 but not top 5. I think Brees is great but not underrated, for today's NFL he also turns it over too much and that's a big reason the Saints haven't been good in many years now. It may sound funny but in a way I miss watching Favre, a lot of my childhood memories are of watching #4 on Sundays and waiting all week for it. I'm also currently reading his biography, Gunslinger, and it is pretty awesome stuff.

Rodgers is sometimes almost too good and machine-like (aside from week 7 of last year to about week 10 of this year) that I take it for granted. It's not that I ever find him boring (far from it!) but it's a different feeling from Favre. And Favre was also the toughest SOB to ever play QB by a country mile and he is more of a natural leader. But with Rodgers there is way more consistency and he routinely makes some impossible plays where he buys himself close to 10 seconds and fires an off-balance, across his body pass that's right on the money. The one vs. Detroit last week was one of the greatest plays I've seen him make and it was pretty much a back-breaker in that game.

I am a little biased but I do think Rodgers is the best quarterback of all time but not the greatest. The greatest is either Montana or Brady because they have the rings, stats, and accolades. If Rodgers finishes within 1 ring of Brady and Montana I think he'd go down as the greatest ever because his stats blows away both of them in the regular and postseason and trust me, he isn't playing for Bill Belichick or Bill Walsh.

Rodgers playoff stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00/gamelog/post/
Brady playoff stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/gamelog/post/
Montana playoff stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01/gamelog/post/

 

[britbox]

Well, I tell you what Twisted... if Rodgers takes this marginally above average team to a Superbowl victory then I'd put him in the Top 3.

 

[Federberg]

Yes I agree that's the best way to say it. Rodgers the most talented, Montana and Brady greater

 

[DarthFed]

Yeah, Vick had insane athletic ability - that's one guy you've got to think could have done so much more in the game. Maybe his love of dogs got in the way of football.

Vick did have insane talent when you factor in his arm strength and athletic ability. He never had good accuracy and also was not a good decision-maker so he was never going to be in the class with other all time great QB's but jail time certainly derailed him.

 

[britbox]

Yes I agree that's the best way to say it. Rodgers the most talented, Montana and Brady greater

I'd agree with that. I also thought Marino was more talented than Montana... but not greater for sure.

 

[DarthFed]

Well, I tell you what Twisted... if Rodgers takes this marginally above average team to a Superbowl victory then I'd put him in the Top 3.

I think that'd put him close to top 3 greatest for sure. I also will say this team is far worse than marginally above average. I know you think it's hyperbole but if you insert an average NFL QB on the Packers starting in 2011 we'd have been lucky to average more than 6 wins the past 6 seasons. Their defense has routinely been one of the worst in the league and they've only had a bonafide run game for a couple of those seasons.

 

[britbox]

I think that'd put him close to top 3 greatest for sure. I also will say this team is far worse than marginally above average. I know you think it's hyperbole but if you insert an average NFL QB on the Packers starting in 2011 we'd have been lucky to average more than 6 wins the past 6 seasons. Their defense has routinely been one of the worst in the league and they've only had a bonafide run game for a couple of those seasons.

Yeah, but you'd have had a lot more to spend on a supporting cast. These franchise quarterbacks don't come cheap... Interesting to see the impact on the Raiders with Carr out, I'd imagine the same would happen in Green Bay... maybe times 1.5

 

[DarthFed]

Yeah, but you'd have had a lot more to spend on a supporting cast. These franchise quarterbacks don't come cheap... Interesting to see the impact on the Raiders with Carr out, I'd imagine the same would happen in Green Bay... maybe times 1.5

Rodgers contract is a bargain compared to most and the Packers have been under the cap for many years. They've had plenty of opportunities to add key free agents in the offseason but Ted Thompson is cheap and lives by his draft and develop strategy. One that clearly hasn't been working for a long time now unless he thinks these 10-6 and 11-5 seasons with probably the best QB ever is acceptable. Ted drafted incredibly well early on in his tenure but he's lost his touch in a bad way.

A big part of the Packers' playoff failure the past 6 years is that they are rarely getting first round byes which is clearly underachieving. A team that plays on Wildcard weekend does not have a decent chance to win the SB. It has happened a few times before, including GB in 2010, New York in 2011, etc. but the odds are poor at best. If GB had the 2 seed this year they'd be up against Atlanta at home and then playing @ Dallas or Seattle/Giants at home for the NFC title. That's a world of difference between Giants at home, at Dallas, and then at Atlanta/Seattle.

 

[Federberg]

Talking about franchise QB's, we'd better start looking into getting an Eli replacement prepared. Wouldn't mind Jimmy Garoppalo, what you think? (not that I think something like that is on the cards of course!).

 

[DarthFed]

The Giants definitely should be looking for a replacement. Regardless of what I said about longevity, 36 is getting up there and Eli isn't bad but he's not great either. He's probably not going to be playing decent a few years from now. Jimmy G is probably going to get a shot, he looks like a decent player but we've seen the likes of Matt Cassel look great on the Pats. That's how great Belichick and his system are.

 

[Federberg]

^ That's a very good point!
I feel a bit bad for Eli yesterday. First quarter and a bit, it was clear he came to ball. There was nothing wrong with those throws his receivers failed to catch. We could have been up 14 - 0 and things might have been different. A-holes clearly still had their heads in Miami

 

[DarthFed]

Totally agree. Eli was actually on fire the 1st half and the Packers could've been down 14 or 17 points pretty easily. Beckham is a monster, as wacky as he is, but that was the worst game he's ever had. I know NFL players are well...NFL players, but doing something like they did at the beginning of last week is just frickin nuts. A boat party in hot and humid Miami when you're playing in 10 degree weather 5 days later. You'd think the coaches would be able to control them somewhat especially during the playoffs.

 

[Federberg]

Totally agree. Eli was actually on fire the 1st half and the Packers could've been down 14 or 17 points pretty easily. Beckham is a monster, as wacky as he is, but that was the worst game he's ever had. I know NFL players are well...NFL players, but doing something like they did at the beginning of last week is just frickin nuts. A boat party in hot and humid Miami when you're playing in 10 degree weather 5 days later. You'd think the coaches would be able to control them somewhat especially during the playoffs.

Agreed. And to make matters worse.. coming on to the pitch in the morning with their tops off. Be professional and don't mess with your conditioning

 

[DarthFed]

Yeah that was clownish. I mean, it's like the ten year old kid on the playground that thinks he's tough because he shows up in shorts during the winter. Really childish stuff.

 

[Billie]

It's good that I am already the Queen of NFL challenge, so it doesn't matter if I correctly guess the games or not.

I'll take: Falcons, Patriots, Chiefs and Packers.

 

[britbox]

Pats are the only clear cut choice for me. I think they win comfortably against the Texans.

Other matches: Kansas v Pittsburgh... This is close. I'm edging towards the Chiefs as it's at Arrowhead but the Steelers and Ben are big gamers. Could go either way but I'm calling Kansas City.

Green Bay at Dallas...Another tough one to call... Dallas have been a tad lucky with their schedule and when they were playing good teams - the opponents were pretty racked with injury lists. I think Dallas record flatters them a bit. Green Bay will score points IMO, but I don't know if it will be enough.. I like the Dallas run game against Green Bay. That might be the key either way. Just edging Cowboys but another one that could go either way. I'll be rooting for the Packers though.

Seattle at Atlanta....This might end up being Rawls v Ryan... Can Atlanta stop Rawls and can Seattle stop Ryan? I like the Seattle secondary... I think they keep it close. Seattle aren't a good road team though...If they can establish the run, then it will open things up for Wilson who is a good QB in his own right. Seattle might get blown out here... but I'm picking them to edge it.

 

[britbox]

It's looking inevitable that the Chargers are heading to Los Angeles... Anyone else hate it when a team moves to a different city? I won't be happy at all if the Raiders move to Las Vegas.

I don't get the Chargers thinking in moving to LA.... I can't see there being a surge of fans going for the LA Chargers.... a lot of the Los Angeles fanbase are still Raider fans. Even the Rams, Los Angeles' longest standing team have been a bit of a damp squib since they returned. Don't see how the Chargers will make Los Angeles work for them. Even the Niners have been playing to empty stadiums in San Jose and that's on the fringe of their original catchment area. Very short sighted stuff.

 

[DarthFed]

Pats are the only clear cut choice for me. I think they win comfortably against the Texans.

Other matches: Kansas v Pittsburgh... This is close. I'm edging towards the Chiefs as it's at Arrowhead but the Steelers and Ben are big gamers. Could go either way but I'm calling Kansas City.

Green Bay at Dallas...Another tough one to call... Dallas have been a tad lucky with their schedule and when they were playing good teams - the opponents were pretty racked with injury lists. I think Dallas record flatters them a bit. Green Bay will score points IMO, but I don't know if it will be enough.. I like the Dallas run game against Green Bay. That might be the key either way. Just edging Cowboys but another one that could go either way. I'll be rooting for the Packers though.

Seattle at Atlanta....This might end up being Rawls v Ryan... Can Atlanta stop Rawls and can Seattle stop Ryan? I like the Seattle secondary... I think they keep it close. Seattle aren't a good road team though...If they can establish the run, then it will open things up for Wilson who is a good QB in his own right. Seattle might get blown out here... but I'm picking them to edge it.

Good analysis. I do give the slight edge to Pittsburgh as long as Big Ben is near 100% after the injury. They have a ton of firepower and that team is clicking at the right time. The Chiefs main issue this time of year is Alex Smith (yes I'm sorry Billie but he is way far from elite and that will hurt them)

I do think Dallas ends our big run this week. It is a very tough matchup due to that awesome offensive line they have. It's no mystery that the Packers are very weak at cornerback and the only way to hide that weakness is to get a lot of pressure on the QB. But with that offensive line it is going to be tough to get to Prescott and then you add the league's best rushing attack to the mix and they are a nightmare for GB to stop. And they can control the ball and keep Rodgers off the field. As amazing as Rodgers has been these past 8 weeks the Packers offense has had a slow start in about half of those games. They can't afford that on Sunday or they will be down by a couple scores early.

I like Atlanta over Seattle. I know Seattle still has a great defense and tons of experience but they are a much different team away from home and the loss of Earl Thomas has hurt them. Everyone was lighting them up at the end of the year and those were important games too and even though they did look good last week vs. Detroit, the offense was mediocre enough that the Lions were within contact for 3 quarters at Seattle despite having some notable bad calls go against them. Atlanta's run defense is decent but their secondary is atrocious. Add it up and I think they win this one.