Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

brokenshoelace

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You have to admit that everyone has their own set of criteria and sometimes we won't agree. I don't pick my players based on their resume, I pick who I like based on their character. My favorites don't have to win for me to like them. I usually know before they've put one trophy in their cabinet if they're someone I'll root for. Some of my favorites include Berdych, Feliciano Lopez, Gilles Simon, Dominika Cibulkova, Pliskova, etc. Do you know how many majors they have altogether? Zero. That's not why I watch them. You're assigning your value system to me. That's wrong. You can't pick who I root for or against. I don't understand what your point is. I don't get to choose what I like?

I think you're confusing favorites with objective assessment. My favorite is Nadal. Always has been, always will be. Has nothing to do with his accomplishments as I was a fan way before he cemented himself as an all-time great.

Also, your logic is losing me here. You were the one who brought up the fact that Federer is overrated by pundits (you didn't use that word, but you pretty much said as much). I'm not assuming a value on anyone. Surely, since you think he's being held on a higher pedestal than he deserves, then you are assigning certain value to him. I'm merely trying to understand what exactly is that value, because you said so much of his accomplishments are due to weak competition. I brought up Djokovic to show how this can also apply to other players, not to try to suggest that you're a Djokovic fan.
 

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I think you're confusing favorites with objective assessment. My favorite is Nadal. Always has been, always will be. Has nothing to do with his accomplishments as I was a fan way before he cemented himself as an all-time great.

Also, your logic is losing me here. You were the one who brought up the fact that Federer is overrated by pundits (you didn't use that word, but you pretty much said as much). I'm not assuming a value on anyone. Surely, since you think he's being held on a higher pedestal than he deserves, then you are assigning certain value to him. I'm merely trying to understand what exactly is that value, because you said so much of his accomplishments are due to weak competition. I brought up Djokovic to show how this can also apply to other players, not to try to suggest that you're a Djokovic fan.

I hear where you're coming from so let me try to explain my position a little better.

I do think that Federer is overrated by the pundits, media, fans, et al. That's not a knock on Federer because he can't control what they do or say. That doesn't detract one bit from the fact that he's a great player. There is no doubt about that. I don't feel that his accomplishments are negated by weak competition because Federer had to go on court for the last thirteen years despite his talent and mentally fight daily to remain the alpha dog. Can you imagine how tiring that must have been along with the pressure from media and fans to stay on top. He never wavered and maintained the good fight. I don't see how anyone can not respect what he has done for the game. What I am saying is that let's not over inflate his, or anyone else's accomplishments because life is also about timing and in my opinion he did step into a vacuum with the old guard phasing out and the new guard being young and inexperienced.

That is not Federer's fault, but that is a factor IMO. I agree that the same can be said of Djokovic. There was a vacuum there too. Rafa has been injured off and on the last few years, Federer is aging and again we have a new guard who are still finding that way on the tour. That doesn't mean that Novak isn't a great player. He is. Same as Federer, but we also have to look at the circumstances of how anyone comes to prominence.

That being said, no matter how good anyone is I don't believe in idolizing anybody or setting them apart. That's just my nature. But, I have to agree with you that Federer is better than Andy not because he's beat him in big matches, skill wise I can't say someone is better than anyone else because it's about more than tennis skills that wins matches. It's the intangibles. It's the heart, the mindset, and the willingness to accept the pressure consistently. Federer has demonstrated that countless times in big matches over Andy, (Novak too) so I'll accept that you are right about that.

I understand all of your points and see why you would feel that way. Your points make sense. The only difference is that I don't feel the same way. I also want to thank you for being reasonable and sticking to the issue. We don't have to agree, but we should always respect each other. I appreciate your way of handling a dispute. I hope this clears the issue up, if not, feel free to ask me what I'm saying because what's in my mind doesn't always translate in words.
 

Carol

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To each his won theme. Federer's fans always have had the wish for no one can reach his numbers because for them no one is so great like him
IMO Rafa could have reach his numbers but his injuries have not allow him to realize (until now) but against any prediction I think he can do more than these last years and the reason I say this is because he was playing this year very close to his best until unfortunately got the wrist injury, otherwise he would have won probably one more GS (15) getting more confidence and motivation to reach two more GS
But my hope haven't finished yet, he is still 30 and for the first time of his carrer he has took a very good decision to rest for awhile which is going to help to heal completely his wrist but not the same way that he had to do it after to retire in the last RG when he had to be inactive for more than two months, this time he can practice but without any effort (no playing matches) and enough time to improve certain shots (like his serve) and his FH which didin't work so well because the pain. I think he will do much better in 2017
 
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Ricardo

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My silly intention? The fact that I don't think Federer is the GOAT is a silly intention? I agreed with Teddy's post. Why is that a problem for you?

i don't give a rat's arse who you think is GOAT or not, just had to point out your hypocritical arguments. That's all, simple as that.
 

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Why even mention Novak then? That's not who I or the previous poster were talking about. You interjected and said, "Do I say that about Novak?" Totally out in left field.

Djoker was used as example about the competition and somehow you associate that to yourself as being said to be his fan.......who is out in left field? too self-centred maybe? never mind, clear your head up first.
 

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To each his won theme. Federer's fans always have had the wish for no one can reach his numbers because for them no one is so great like him
IMO Rafa could have reach his numbers but his injuries have not allow him to realize (until now) but against any prediction I think he can do more than these last years and the reason I say this is because he was playing this year very close to his best until unfortunately got the wrist injury, otherwise he would have won probably one more GS (15) getting more confidence and motivation to reach two more GS
But my hope haven't finished yet, he is still 30 and for the first time of his carrer he has took a very good decision to rest for awhile which is going to help to heal completely his wrist but not the same way that he had to do it after to retire in the last RG when he had to be inactive for more than two months, this time he can practice but without any effort (no playing matches) and enough time to improve certain shots (like his serve) and his FH which didin't work so well because the pain. I think he will do much better in 2017

Nadal wasnt winning RG this year as he would've had to go through Djokovic and that wasn't happening. And he of course has no prayer at Wimbledon. The injury was of course unfortunate but his main issue is that he isn't good anymore and hasn't been for 2.5 years. Here's to hoping it continues the rest of his career B-)
 

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i don't give a rat's arse who you think is GOAT or not, just had to point out your hypocritical arguments. That's all, simple as that.

LOL, you don't give a rat's arse but it was you who injected yourself into the conversation. Now, I'm the one who really doesn't give a rat's arse about your opinion because I never once posted to you. Don't like my posts? Keep it moving. Calling me names. Ridiculous.
 

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Djoker was used as example about the competition and somehow you associate that to yourself as being said to be his fan.......who is out in left field? too self-centred maybe? never mind, clear your head up first.

I guess you're going to keep posting to me although you don't give a rat's arse about my opinion. I think you're the one exhibiting hypocrisy because obviously you seem to care a great deal about what I post.
 

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To each his won theme. Federer's fans always have had the wish for no one can reach his numbers because for them no one is so great like him
IMO Rafa could have reach his numbers but his injuries have not allow him to realize (until now) but against any prediction I think he can do more than these last years and the reason I say this is because he was playing this year very close to his best until unfortunately got the wrist injury, otherwise he would have won probably one more GS (15) getting more confidence and motivation to reach two more GS
But my hope haven't finished yet, he is still 30 and for the first time of his carrer he has took a very good decision to rest for awhile which is going to help to heal completely his wrist but not the same way that he had to do it after to retire in the last RG when he had to be inactive for more than two months, this time he can practice but without any effort (no playing matches) and enough time to improve certain shots (like his serve) and his FH which didin't work so well because the pain. I think he will do much better in 2017

I think that's what happens when you assign superiority to things. It you gives you the impression that you're right and everyone else is wrong. What people fail to realize is that people think differently. Everyone doesn't approach things using the same mindset. I don't know why that's so difficult for many adults. Even if I don't agree with someone's opinion, if the argument is lucid I can understand where they're coming from, that doesn't mean that I have to agree though. And heaven forbid I'm going to get so riled up that I'm going to attack a poster. That is so ridiculous. Anyway...

I feel the same way, Carol. It's not over until the fat lady sings. Rafa knows what he feels that he's capable of. Only he knows the struggles and reasons that are inhibiting his progress. If he felt that the situation was untenable I think he would pull the plug, because he seems to put his own happiness first. That's why he remains content with his circumstances. He has a very healthy outlook and false pride isn't a part of his makeup.
 
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Carol

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Carol

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It's funny to see how some Roger's fans are enjoying looking to Rafa not playing so well and most of the times because his injuries. But like it's well said and we have seen it already "what goes around comes around".
Rafa was playing close to his best before to get the wrist injury so it means that without that injury he would have won his 10 GS for sure, it doesn't matter if he would have had to go through Djokovic, the guru and all his coaches
 
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Backhand_DTL

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It's funny to see how some Roger's fans are enjoying looking to Rafa not playing so well and most of the times because his injuries. But like it's well said and we have seen it already "what goes around comes around".
Rafa was playing close to his best before to get the wrist injury so it means that without that injury he would have won his 10 GS for sure, it doesn't matter if he would have had to go through Djokovic, the guru and all his coaches
But that means Rafa playing close to his best lost a close two setter against Novak in Rome when Novak clearly wasn't playing close to his best. So it's laughable to claim he would surely have won against Novak who at RG was playing at a significantly higher level at least from the quarter finals on than he did in Rome.
 

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But that means Rafa playing close to his best lost a close two setter against Novak in Rome when Novak clearly wasn't playing close to his best. So it's laughable to claim he would surely have won against Novak who at RG was playing at a clearly higher level at least from the quarter finals on than he did in Rome.

But still you don't know that Rafa started to feel the pain in the wrist in Madrid and later in Roma was getting worse and worse? Yes, it's very laughable that some of you like to know and to say what ever is more convenient for you, isn't?
 
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Backhand_DTL

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But still you don't know that Rafa started to feel the pain in the wrist in Madrid and later in Roma was getting worse and worse? Yes, it's very laughable that some of you like to know and to say what ever is more convenient for you, isn't?
Still even in Monte Carlo Rafa had his hands full with Thiem and wasn't fully convincing against Andy and Monfils so there he also didn't show a level which would be enough to beat Novak when he is playing well.

Of course it would be possible that Rafa had won if that semi final against Novak at RG would have taken place but he definitely wouldn't have been the favourite and much less been sure to win.
 

Carol

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Still even in Monte Carlo Rafa had his hands full with Thiem and wasn't fully convincing against Andy and Monfils so there he also didn't show a level which would be enough to beat Novak when he is playing well.

Of course it would be possible that Rafa had won if that semi final against Novak at RG would have taken place but he definitely wouldn't have been the favourite and much less been sure to win.

Was Novak fully convincing in Montecarlo? he wasn't but later the Rafa's injury and the Muzz weakness mind helped him a lot
 

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Was Novak fully convincing in Montecarlo? he wasn't but later the Rafa's injury and the Muzz weakness mind helped him a lot
Of course not but Novak was rather convincing in Madrid and made the final of Rome mostly on will alone with his game being quite a bit off so going into Paris he was well positioned no matter how you spin it.
 

Carol

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Of course not but Novak was rather convincing in Madrid and made the final of Rome mostly on will alone with his game being quite a bit off so going into Paris he was well positioned no matter how you spin it.
I don't spin anything, Novak had the best oportunity of his life and he took it
 

Ricardo

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I guess you're going to keep posting to me although you don't give a rat's arse about my opinion. I think you're the one exhibiting hypocrisy because obviously you seem to care a great deal about what I post.

wrong again hypocrite, i have a hobby of whipping hypocritical butts when i see one.....i enjoy that.
 

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wrong again hypocrite, i have a hobby of whipping hypocritical butts when i see one.....i enjoy that.

You're really bothered by the fact that #1 I don't believe in that GOAT BS, and #2 that I don't think Federer is the GOAT. I don't see how that qualifies me as being a hypocrite. I thought I made myself clear in my posts, if you can't handle it that's your problem, because for all of your tedious and ridiculous posts to me not a dang thang has changed. My opinion remains the same and there's nothing you can do about it. So I suggest you just move on and stop with the silly internet grudges.
 

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It's funny to see how some Roger's fans are enjoying looking to Rafa not playing so well and most of the times because his injuries. But like it's well said and we have seen it already "what goes around comes around".
Rafa was playing close to his best before to get the wrist injury so it means that without that injury he would have won his 10 GS for sure, it doesn't matter if he would have had to go through Djokovic, the guru and all his coaches

That's the nature of sports so I don't understand why people get so excited all the time. Things change on a dime in sports. Your guy is up one day and the next thing you know someone else usurps him. It happens all the time and yet so many people don't seem to recognize these same repeating patterns.