mrzz
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Now the Djokovic gang will go for your neck!! Not an easy living around here, mate...
Nadal owning Federer in the 2008 Roland Garros final.....
- Thread starter calitennis127
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Now the Djokovic gang will go for your neck!! Not an easy living around here, mate...
I think this was an interesting match for historical reasons. It was the culmination of about two years of a strategy change by Roger to compete with Rafa at the FO. It was noticeable in that it was a failure.
Higueras has tried to get Roger to play more like a clay courter. That meant more point construction, not going for big flat winners off the fh side, the implementation of a forehand drop shot and safer but more topspinny backhands to try to reduce the rate of UEs.
This was supposed to counter the old school defensive version of Nadal. What happened though was instead of being content to rally, Rafa really started to step into the court and crushed Federers weak rally shots. I think the 2004 version would have fared a little better (it would still have been a three set romp, but at least it might have denied Rafa some rythm)
The lesson I think was that it was a mistake to try to change someone’s style too much, that even the greatest player of all time couldn’t reinvent himself into something he’s not.
Higueras has tried to get Roger to play more like a clay courter. That meant more point construction, not going for big flat winners off the fh side, the implementation of a forehand drop shot and safer but more topspinny backhands to try to reduce the rate of UEs.
This was supposed to counter the old school defensive version of Nadal. What happened though was instead of being content to rally, Rafa really started to step into the court and crushed Federers weak rally shots. I think the 2004 version would have fared a little better (it would still have been a three set romp, but at least it might have denied Rafa some rythm)
The lesson I think was that it was a mistake to try to change someone’s style too much, that even the greatest player of all time couldn’t reinvent himself into something he’s not.
Moxie
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Interesting insight. Roger was much more successful against Rafa in the 2011 final. IMO that was the first time we started to see him make changes to trouble Rafa. Overall.
So the 2011 final was more like how he used to play clay, when he was a younger player. You might recall that Roger wasn't really a world beating clay court player, until ~2005. Before that point he would play it more like a hardcourt, and he lacked consistency. The change into more of a point constructer as he got older really payed dividends against most of the tour and his clay results improved. As the years went on, he started to grind it out even more, hoping to out Rafa Rafa a bit. That strategy ended up paying dividends as he grinded his way to the 2009 championship, but of course he was really still overmatched when he played Nadal utilizing that style as 2008 and 2010 showed.
In 2011, I think there was a concerted effort by his team to take him away from the point constructer, passive rally player and to go back to his hardcourt and fast court roots and to implement a more aggressive strategy. So more serve and volley, more hitting flat winners etc.
The 2011 match was really the beginning of Roger going back to that speedy style, and coupled with the fast FO that year (the surface was less bouncy and swifter) as well as a slowdown in Nadal's defense and movement and well he managed to make a match out of it.
In 2011, I think there was a concerted effort by his team to take him away from the point constructer, passive rally player and to go back to his hardcourt and fast court roots and to implement a more aggressive strategy. So more serve and volley, more hitting flat winners etc.
The 2011 match was really the beginning of Roger going back to that speedy style, and coupled with the fast FO that year (the surface was less bouncy and swifter) as well as a slowdown in Nadal's defense and movement and well he managed to make a match out of it.
Moxie
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I agree with a lot of that, and good points about Roger's shifting style on clay. But I do wonder what you mean about the "fast FO" that year. You say the surface was "less bouncy and swifter." But my understanding is that the clay courts at RG don't change. That the difference would be weather, and balls. Can you elaborate?
Federberg
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I don't think it was anything they did. It was in part the weather, but mostly the type of balls they used. RG played fast that year
I couldn't agree more (and had to watch the highlights again), and i remember i was watching this final and i was so nervous: Federer was playing so good in the first set, going up 3-0 immediately. With the help of some shanks etc. Federer was serving sublimely. But there was however a sense of haste, everybody knew -- or understood that Federer could not keep this level of play against Nadal. Federer had set-point and made a drop volley that clipped the line, it was called out. Nadal went on to win that game, and eventually the set -- i was devastated. Federer should have won this set.
In the 2 set Federer got broken immediately -- alas, it was over i thought. Federer somehow came back in the 8th game and leveled the match, but lost in the tiebreaker.
Looking back, i can't shake of this lingering feeling: With raquet, new backhand, new confidence. That Federer should try one more time at the RG.
What are everyones feeling regarding Federer just signing up for RG and see how it goes? Play into the tournament with no sense of fear... practice.
Federberg
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If we knew beforehand that the courts (and balls) would play as fast as 2011, yes I would probably sign up to Roger playing there
britbox
Multiple Major Winner
Hey @coban, good to see you around old sport. Based on a few interviews Federer made a while back, I think he's worried about injuries more than anything else. He said he didn't feel right on the surface.
But here is a scenario... Nadal is injured or not playing well going into Roland Garros... maybe the opportunist will surface in Roger.... we're seeing him play Rotterdam for the sole purpose of grabbing #1, maybe he'll play RG if the circumstances suit him.
Fed had mononucleosis the first half of 2008.
Nadal fans sure are stuck in the past when Nadal USED to be able to beat Federer. For Nadal's fans' sake I hope Roger doesn't play the clay season because if he were to beat Nadal on clay, too, Nadal's poor fans would probably stroke out.
Nadal fans sure are stuck in the past when Nadal USED to be able to beat Federer. For Nadal's fans' sake I hope Roger doesn't play the clay season because if he were to beat Nadal on clay, too, Nadal's poor fans would probably stroke out.
Federberg
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Lol! I don't want Roger to play on clay, but I must admit.. that would be the one reason for him to do it
No Federer just lost matches 2008 to the better player Nadal. Plus Federer already beatin Nadal on clay its the FO I would mad at Federer beaten Nadal at FO that a joke. :lulz2:. One good season against Nadal means nothing, Nadal had that 6,7 seasons where he's dominate Federer. Not living in the past its history. Also, Nadal the one that end the year number one.
I'm confused...if Roger can't be GOAT because he's got a losing record against Nadal...then how can Nadal be GOAT when he's got a losing record against Djokovic? By this reckoning Djokovic is the GOAT because he's got a winning record against both Federer and Nadal.
Hmmm...1 good season? Nadal hasn't beaten Federer since 2014 - Roger's first tourney with his new racket.. Yeah, so what if they didn't play in 2016...it's still over 4 years since Nadal has beaten Roger. Five straight losses - 3 of which were outright thumpings - will get in anyone's head. It got in Roger's a decade ago...and it's in Nadal's now...
And really, it's OK to admit that the thought of Roger beating Nadal on his beloved clay at any clay tournament - not just the FO - gives you Nadal fans the hives. Take away clay and Nadal's GOAT bona fides are the same as Boris Becker's.
At the end of the day it's his choice & his career. He knows what he's capable of more than anyone else & at the end of the day it's up to him to put the work in & try his best. All anyone can do in the end is try their best & the best man will win in the end. Also everyone has good days & bad days, times when they're really in their element & times when they just don't perform even 1/2 as well as they're capable of. We all beat ourselves up for bad days but at the end of the day we're all human & we all make mistakes. I don't think we should really pass judgement.
OK so that's only reason I put here , that makes nadal goat but I have like 15, more reasons I can say why Nadal is goat I can tell you if you want.
OK I admit Roger beaten Nadal on any Clay court would hurt. So good thing it's not going to happen.
Lol! I don't want Roger to play on clay, but I must admit.. that would be the one reason for him to do it
I'd be interested to see if the same tactics would work on clay - take everything early, inside the baseline, especially on the backhand so that ball doesn't get up too high. The bottom line is that Nadal is ALWAYS going to play 2-3 feet behind the baseline and even though clay is slower he'd still be taking time away from Nadal, so why wouldn't it work on clay, too?
Gee a whole 15 reasons, huh? Don't bother unless you want to see the 252 reasons why Roger's the GOAT. And unlike Nadal 98% of Roger's records aren't on one surface.
