N. Djokovic - M. Raonic IW final

[herios]

Fiero, show the stats from Rafa previous 3 matches ( maybe that's why some feel Rafa is starting to regain his form )

Why would I do that? He barely survived an injured 18 y.o. kid within those 3 matches! :nono :cover

C'mon man, there was real quality from Rafa on Saturday. For a set and a half he made the best player in the world work for everything he got. He forced Novak to go for shots he doesn't normally need to. He put the ball where Novak wasn't expecting it to go. I saw the look of incredulity more than a few times.

And there was that moment of "Oh sh*t, this is going to be a tough one." expression on Novak's face. I haven't seen that in a while, even in the matches he lost last summer. It was the first time in some time that someone really pushed him to be a better player. My nerves and my heart may not like it, but it was really nice to see and I hope there's more of that from them in the future.

Rafa looking better had also a lot to do with Novak playing mediocre. Novak had a lot of UE of the BH, not to speak about the DF when he was serving into the sun.

 

[nehmeth]

Rafa looking better had also a lot to do with Novak playing mediocre. Novak had a lot of UE of the BH, not to speak about the DF when he was serving into the sun.

No. Rafa was forcing the play, and Novak was not playing mediocre. Rafa pushed Novak out of his lethargic sh*t tennis that he's been playing ever since the Australian Open. If Novak didn't step up, he would have lost. Rafa made him play at his best level.

Then he went out and destroyed the Canadian! :snicker

 

[herios]

No. Rafa was forcing the play, and Novak was not playing mediocre. Rafa pushed Novak out of his lethargic sh*t tennis that he's been playing ever since the Australian Open. If Novak didn't step up, he would have lost. Rafa made him play at his best level.

You see, I am right. You just recognized that Novak was lethargic. If he was going to play well, it would have been something like 6-2, 6-2, Like in Doha.

 

[nehmeth]

No. Rafa was forcing the play, and Novak was not playing mediocre. Rafa pushed Novak out of his lethargic sh*t tennis that he's been playing ever since the Australian Open. If Novak didn't step up, he would have lost. Rafa made him play at his best level.

You see, I am right. You just recognized that Novak was lethargic. If he was going to play well, it would have been something like 6-2, 6-2, Like in Doha.

About as right as you were about that giant you cheer for winning a set.

Novak was not playing his best tennis for some time. But he was playing well against Rafa. He had to or he would have been beaten. He kept the pressure on Rafa's serve from the very first game of the match, and he kept on it. Second half of set 2, he broke Rafa down... then he soared. It was Rafa's level dropping that allowed Novak to shine at the end. There was no mediocre tennis against Nadal; Novak wasn't being allowed to play his game.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Why would I do that? He barely survived an injured 18 y.o. kid within those 3 matches! :nono :cover

C'mon man, there was real quality from Rafa on Saturday. For a set and a half he made the best player in the world work for everything he got. He forced Novak to go for shots he doesn't normally need to. He put the ball where Novak wasn't expecting it to go. I saw the look of incredulity more than a few times.

And there was that moment of "Oh sh*t, this is going to be a tough one." expression on Novak's face. I haven't seen that in a while, even in the matches he lost last summer. It was the first time in some time that someone really pushed him to be a better player. My nerves and my heart may not like it, but it was really nice to see and I hope there's more of that from them in the future.

Rafa looking better had also a lot to do with Novak playing mediocre. Novak had a lot of UE of the BH, not to speak about the DF when he was serving into the sun.

herios, I typically dont agree with yout thoughts but I thought you was FAIR.. this makes No sense.. just like Nehmeth stated, Rafa pushed Djoker to his limits in the first set.. Did you see it took a cc bh stab return will sliding on the insides of his feet by Djoker to be one of the different makers in the tbr..

 

[Riotbeard]

No. Rafa was forcing the play, and Novak was not playing mediocre. Rafa pushed Novak out of his lethargic sh*t tennis that he's been playing ever since the Australian Open. If Novak didn't step up, he would have lost. Rafa made him play at his best level.

You see, I am right. You just recognized that Novak was lethargic. If he was going to play well, it would have been something like 6-2, 6-2, Like in Doha.

I am on Herios's side. I think Novak played ok at best most of the first set. Rafa didn't push Novak into 21 unforced errors. Rafa was playing pretty well, but the answer to me seems somewhere in between. Novak allowed Rafa to get confident with poor play from the beginning, and it eventually forced Novak to wake up and play better. Rafa was at a level that required Novak to eventually play pretty well on the big points, but the reason the first set was so competitive was because Novak was not hitting the ball well. I think it is a move in the right direction that Rafa can even test a so-so Novak, but this was not a vintage match. Go back to 2011, and tell me this was those players playing anywhere near their best...

 

[nehmeth]

I am on Herios's side. .

:snicker

Of course you are... you also picked Raonic to take a set!

 

[Fiero425]

OMG, "he pushed Nole to play well!" So that's the new standard? How the mighty have fallen! So sad!

 

[Kieran]

As I noted continually during the match, Novak was excellent in the big points. The first set was a masterclass in matchplay and containment of a determined and dangerous opponent. Rafa started well, so that put Novak under immediate pressure: he responded by breaking back immediately.

After this, he was threatened only once on his serve, in the 4-5 game where he saved set point. Other than this, I'm hard pressed to remember if Rafa got to deuce even once. In fact, the match was notable for how well Novak served after he dropped his first service game. He raced through his service games, generally, and was a constant feature in Rafa's service games. The stats don't tell the tale. It's like Verdasco in Oz, he hit 90 UFE's against Rafa but it's generally reviewed as him playing the right way to get the result. Allow stats to wander out alone without a guide and they'll end up in a bar saying drunken things which aren't exactly accurate.

After Novak contained the threat in the first, he relaxed and swung freely, and Rafa lost heart somewhat, and his intensity and focus dipped.

It was a strong and competitive performance by Rafa for about a set and a half, even though the writing was in the wall once Novak closed the door at 5-5 in the first set tiebreak. Generally for the last two seasons Novak has faced such a sub-standard version of Rafa that maybe his fans are thinking that this is actually the real gap between them. It isn't. When Rafa gets stuck in, it forces Novak to go for more, and this time he missed a few.

But not when it mattered...

 

[the AntiPusher]

I am on Herios's side. .

:snicker

Of course you are... you also picked Raonic to take a set!

Of Course you are.. Fiero, won't be far behind you either

 

[Kieran]

Hey this Raonic match certainly sparked a firefight! :snicker

 

[the AntiPusher]

As I noted continually during the match, Novak was excellent in the big points. The first set was a masterclass in matchplay and containment of a determined and dangerous opponent. Rafa started well, so that put Novak under immediate pressure: he responded by breaking back immediately.

After this, he was threatened only once on his serve, in the 4-5 game where he saved set point. Other than this, I'm hard pressed to remember if Rafa got to deuce even once. In fact, the match was notable for how well Novak served after he dropped his first service game. He raced through his service games, generally, and was a constant feature in Rafa's service games. The stats don't tell the tale. It's like Verdasco in Oz, he hit 90 UFE's against Rafa but it's generally reviewed as him playing the right way to get the result. Allow stats to wander out alone without a guide and they'll end up in a bar saying drunken things which aren't exactly accurate.

After Novak contained the threat in the first, he relaxed and swung freely, and Rafa lost heart somewhat, and his intensity and focus dipped.

It was a strong and competitive performance by Rafa for about a set and a half, even though the writing was in the wall once Novak closed the door at 5-5 in the first set tiebreak. Generally for the last two seasons Novak has faced such a sub-standard version of Rafa that maybe his fans are thinking that this is actually the real gap between them. It isn't. When Rafa gets stuck in, it forces Novak to go for more, and this time he missed a few.

But not when it mattered...

Kieran.. I have to rewatch the match again but I recall that Rafa was able ot go deep into several of Novak's service games in the first set but dont quote me because I watch a lot of matches this week..

To add closure to this. some Rafa purists will think this was a good week however his usual suspects of naysayers(See herios, riotbeard, front and fiero I didnt mention your names:snicker) will say that hsi opponents played down to Rafa current level of decline.

 

[Riotbeard]

As I noted continually during the match, Novak was excellent in the big points. The first set was a masterclass in matchplay and containment of a determined and dangerous opponent. Rafa started well, so that put Novak under immediate pressure: he responded by breaking back immediately.

After this, he was threatened only once on his serve, in the 4-5 game where he saved set point. Other than this, I'm hard pressed to remember if Rafa got to deuce even once. In fact, the match was notable for how well Novak served after he dropped his first service game. He raced through his service games, generally, and was a constant feature in Rafa's service games. The stats don't tell the tale. It's like Verdasco in Oz, he hit 90 UFE's against Rafa but it's generally reviewed as him playing the right way to get the result. Allow stats to wander out alone without a guide and they'll end up in a bar saying drunken things which aren't exactly accurate.

After Novak contained the threat in the first, he relaxed and swung freely, and Rafa lost heart somewhat, and his intensity and focus dipped.

It was a strong and competitive performance by Rafa for about a set and a half, even though the writing was in the wall once Novak closed the door at 5-5 in the first set tiebreak. Generally for the last two seasons Novak has faced such a sub-standard version of Rafa that maybe his fans are thinking that this is actually the real gap between them. It isn't. When Rafa gets stuck in, it forces Novak to go for more, and this time he missed a few.

But not when it mattered...

Kieran.. I have to rewatch the match again but I recall that Rafa was able ot go deep into several of Novak's service games in the first set but dont quote me because I watch a lot of matches this week..

To add closure to this. some Rafa purists will think this was a good week however his usual suspects of naysayers(See herios, riotbeard, front and fiero I didnt mention your names:snicker) will say that hsi opponents played down to Rafa current level of decline.

I don't think I am quite in that camp, haha (no offense to the impressive names I am listed with). It's just my honest opinion. I wasn't that impressed with Novak's level for much of the first set.

 

[herios]

No. Rafa was forcing the play, and Novak was not playing mediocre. Rafa pushed Novak out of his lethargic sh*t tennis that he's been playing ever since the Australian Open. If Novak didn't step up, he would have lost. Rafa made him play at his best level.

You see, I am right. You just recognized that Novak was lethargic. If he was going to play well, it would have been something like 6-2, 6-2, Like in Doha.

I am on Herios's side. I think Novak played ok at best most of the first set. Rafa didn't push Novak into 21 unforced errors. Rafa was playing pretty well, but the answer to me seems somewhere in between. Novak allowed Rafa to get confident with poor play from the beginning, and it eventually forced Novak to wake up and play better. Rafa was at a level that required Novak to eventually play pretty well on the big points, but the reason the first set was so competitive was because Novak was not hitting the ball well. I think it is a move in the right direction that Rafa can even test a so-so Novak, but this was not a vintage match. Go back to 2011, and tell me this was those players playing anywhere near their best...

This! Well said, just exactly how I feel.

 

[nehmeth]

As I noted continually during the match, Novak was excellent in the big points. The first set was a masterclass in matchplay and containment of a determined and dangerous opponent. Rafa started well, so that put Novak under immediate pressure: he responded by breaking back immediately.

After this, he was threatened only once on his serve, in the 4-5 game where he saved set point. Other than this, I'm hard pressed to remember if Rafa got to deuce even once. In fact, the match was notable for how well Novak served after he dropped his first service game. He raced through his service games, generally, and was a constant feature in Rafa's service games. The stats don't tell the tale. It's like Verdasco in Oz, he hit 90 UFE's against Rafa but it's generally reviewed as him playing the right way to get the result. Allow stats to wander out alone without a guide and they'll end up in a bar saying drunken things which aren't exactly accurate.

After Novak contained the threat in the first, he relaxed and swung freely, and Rafa lost heart somewhat, and his intensity and focus dipped.

It was a strong and competitive performance by Rafa for about a set and a half, even though the writing was in the wall once Novak closed the door at 5-5 in the first set tiebreak. Generally for the last two seasons Novak has faced such a sub-standard version of Rafa that maybe his fans are thinking that this is actually the real gap between them. It isn't. When Rafa gets stuck in, it forces Novak to go for more, and this time he missed a few.

But not when it mattered...

We saw the match similarly. Other than the blip in that first service game, Nole served really well.

 

[Mile]

I thought Nole wouldnt put much into match. If Milos would do fine, because RG is his main goal, and puting much now wouldnt be good for reaching top in RG.

Now he won... maybe his B is too good. Whatever.

 

[Fiero425]

I thought Nole wouldnt put much into match. If Milos would do fine, because RG is his main goal, and puting much now wouldnt be good for reaching top in RG.

Now he won... maybe his B is too good. Whatever.

OCO, this is March; why save energy this early? Mon Deiu, the FO isn't for 3 months! He didn't need to use much to beat Raonic who wasn't ready for a Masters' final! This was worse than any women's final in the past and Martina and Steffi normally made mincemeat out of their competition in their primes! :nono :angel: :cover

 

[Mile]

I thought Nole wouldnt put much into match. If Milos would do fine, because RG is his main goal, and puting much now wouldnt be good for reaching top in RG.

Now he won... maybe his B is too good. Whatever.

OCO, this is March; why save energy this early? Mon Deiu, the FO isn't for 3 months! He didn't need to use much to beat Raonic who wasn't ready for a Masters' final! This was worse than any women's final in the past and Martina and Steffi normally made mincemeat out of their competition in their primes! :nono :angel: :cover

Its more about gaining prime momentum than saving energy,