Kyrgios is the polarizing figure tennis needs

[Tennis Fan]

The point here is what tennis "needs". The point for me is that tennis, right now, needs nothing. There are fantastically good players, we get to see fantastic matches, tournaments are held world wide, televised a lot etc and etc. My favorite player is not winning, ok, but as far as tennis goes, things are quite good. So, for me surely tennis does not "need" Kyrgios.

But I see that, for some, folks like him are a welcomed piece of news. So, it is not tennis that needs him, but some fans, as the one who opened the thread. It is fine for me.

I, personally, do not like him too much. And up till yesterday I thought he was just an ok player, another big server. People lauded him as someone with loads of talent, and I thought that it was absurd.

But, after the match, I see a bit of people's point. I still think there is too much hype around him, but the kid is good. Not that good, though.

However, if you want temper, you could look also to guys like Jerzy Janowicz. I see no reason why tennis "needs" Kyrgios more than someone like him, for example. But, again, is all a matter of taste.

I agree with you in regards to "needs." Tennis is/was doing just fine without him, IMO.

 

[Tennis Fan]

Oh Common. Like you don’t know. Nick is not playing fairly, tries to destruct his opponent. That is what he does.

I agree that's exactly what Nick is doing and it's not fair play. The things that he's doing are just juvenile and shows no respect for the game or his opponents. Nick is a no-go for me.

 

[Tennis Fan]

No Cali, dirty little secrets don’t deserve to be put out for all of us to hear, especially when they were not even his secrets. We all probably understand that male and female tennis players have always had their share of flings and relationships but most don’t talk about them publicly or not on the tennis court. Even if public wants to know. To me that is just plain common decency, not just between tennis players, but ordinary people as well. Do not kiss and tell, as the saying goes. Other than that, everybody can feel free to like who they want. There will always be people who strongly dislike one person and others that strongly like that same person. It would be boring if all people were the same.

I just don’t understand what is this masculine character about Nick?

I agree, Billie. Nick had no right to expose Donna Vekic's sex life on national TV. Who made him the boss of what consenting adults do in their bedrooms? I didn't know Donna that much as a tennis player, but no one deserved that kind of treatment. It's horrible when men disrespect women publicly. Nick needed to mind his own business. Would he like it if someone shared similar "news" to the world about his mom's sexual transgressions? I don't think so.

Imagine the humiliation and shame that girl has to go through; and for what? What did she do to Nick?

 

[Tennis Fan]

Nick clashed with the umpire again on Sunday. Thought he had a point this time though. Asking loudly for a towel and getting a violation for it seemed a bit harsh.

He barked at that kid like he was a darn dog. What gives him the right to treat others any way that he chooses? Nick is too full of himself and he's rude and nasty, to boot.

He was already on thin ice, but he keeps doing this stuff to bring attention to himself. Now he's on Twitter talking crazy to this one official who doesn't want him representing Australia. He's clueless if he doesn't understand why.

 

[Moxie]

I agree, Billie. Nick had no right to expose Donna Vekic's sex life on national TV. Who made him the boss of what consenting adults do in their bedrooms? I didn't know Donna that much as a tennis player, but no one deserved that kind of treatment. It's horrible when men disrespect women publicly. Nick needed to mind his own business. Would he like it if someone shared similar "news" to the world about his mom's sexual transgressions? I don't think so.

Imagine the humiliation and shame that girl has to go through; and for what? What did she do to Nick?

By the same token, neither did he have the right to expose Kokkinakis's sex life. If you believe that the "shame" of being exposed as having a sex life reflects poorly only on the woman, then you're as guilty of sexism as anyone. Frankly, if you think it reflects poorly on anyone other than Kyrgios, you're a bit behind the times. Donna and Kokk were in a relationship. No shame there. I think it was known. However, Nick's comment was playing into the hands of that exact kind of sexism. He did impune Donna, and called Stan a "cuckhold", for all intents and purposes. That was his intent. It's a very antique idea, and you shouldn't buy into it. It was right that he was sanctioned for it, of course. It was crude and sexist, and wrong on so many levels. But to buy into the notion that it shamed Donna, above anyone else, is to buy into an out-dated notion. I'm not naive about this, and I think the WTA was right to call Nick out, too. But let's remember who is at fault here....Kyrgios.

 

[mrzz]

then you're as guilty of sexism as anyone.

People are guilty of crimes, Moxie. You are right that there should not be no shame related to former relationships, but people can not be forced into a given way of thinking. There are people, who are not "sexists", who honestly believe that men and women perceive sexual relations in a different way, and are not comfortable with some information coming out in the open. It is their call. If you say that they should, as an obligation, be okay with it, than you´re playing the role of a moral police, which is exactly what bothers a lot of people.

Look, I understand your point, and you spotted very well the difference in perception. But you can only invite the others to you´re way of thinking. Having discussed with you a lot about similar subjects, I am sure that´s exactly what you want, but this is not the way you are sounding.

 

[Moxie]

OK, mrzz, I appreciate your cautioning me on the semantics, and I also appreciate that you get my point. Not to split hairs, but people can be guilty of misconceptions, as well as crimes. However, it would have been more generous of me to lay out my own perspective, and leave off censoring others for not seeing it the way I did. (I really can be a bullying pain in the ass, sometimes. )

If I could restate my point more gracefully, I would say that Nick used a lot of stereotypical tropes to get at Stan. In a single phrase, he implied that the girlfriend was "easy," and that he was "bested/cuckholded" by Kokkinakis. But both Thanasi and Donna are innocent in that exchange. To the same extent. They were used as pawns, shamelessly, IMO, by Kyrgios, to get at Stan, in a blatant display of gamesmanship, even though Stan didn't hear it at the moment. So my point would be not to buy into the Kyrgios view of women and men, at least in this instance. To see Donna as being portrayed as a "woman of easy virtue" is to buy into the gambit, even as people defend her against it. Kokkinakis shouldn't come off easier by being the "cuckolder." They were both wronged, and likely were embarrassed by what Nick said. Who wants their old relationships dragged out in public, unbidden, anyway? Ick.

 

[Tennis Fan]

By the same token, neither did he have the right to expose Kokkinakis's sex life. If you believe that the "shame" of being exposed as having a sex life reflects poorly only on the woman, then you're as guilty of sexism as anyone. Frankly, if you think it reflects poorly on anyone other than Kyrgios, you're a bit behind the times. Donna and Kokk were in a relationship. No shame there. I think it was known. However, Nick's comment was playing into the hands of that exact kind of sexism. He did impune Donna, and called Stan a "cuckhold", for all intents and purposes. That was his intent. It's a very antique idea, and you shouldn't buy into it. It was right that he was sanctioned for it, of course. It was crude and sexist, and wrong on so many levels. But to buy into the notion that it shamed Donna, above anyone else, is to buy into an out-dated notion. I'm not naive about this, and I think the WTA was right to call Nick out, too. But let's remember who is at fault here....Kyrgios.

Then I guess I'm behind the times then, because I don't think that Donna should've been included in Nick's spat with Wawrinka. If Nick had a problem with Stan, it should have been between him and Stan ONLY. For Donna, to be on the sidelines, have no issue with Nick and Nick takes it upon himself to include her is flat out wrong.

Maybe it wouldn't bother you if someone put you on blast, but if I'm sitting at home, or in the stands, and Nick would've "exposed" what I did in my personal life I would be bothered by it.

Different strokes I guess, but I definitely don't think that I'm behind the times. I think that Donna had nothing to do with Nick's spat and he inserted her anyway. That's foul. Anytime you include someone in your spat, IMO, you're flat out wrong.

 

[Moxie]

Then I guess I'm behind the times then, because I don't think that Donna should've been included in Nick's spat with Wawrinka. If Nick had a problem with Stan, it should have been between him and Stan ONLY. For Donna, to be on the sidelines, have no issue with Nick and Nick takes it upon himself to include her is flat out wrong.

Maybe it wouldn't bother you if someone put you on blast, but if I'm sitting at home, or in the stands, and Nick would've "exposed" what I did in my personal life I would be bothered by it.

Different strokes I guess, but I definitely don't think that I'm behind the times. I think that Donna had nothing to do with Nick's spat and he inserted her anyway. That's foul. Anytime you include someone in your spat, IMO, you're flat out wrong.

We agree on everything, except that you forget to mention that Kokkinakis was fouled, as well.

 

[Tennis Fan]

We agree on everything, except that you forget to mention that Kokkinakis was fouled, as well.

Oh for sure, but I only saw and heard what Nick did, so that's all I was speaking on. Nick can share his sex life with the world, but it's not his place to share others,' IMO. What Kokkinakis did was between him, Donna and Stan. I just don't see what Nick had to do with it, that's what makes it foul to me. It wasn't his concern. He should've minded his own business.

 

[Denis]

He's likely to be one of Djokovic's biggest problems next year. You might want to remember the name.

Sure hope so! I'll take him over prime Nadal and prime Federer.

(Not really of course, but you get what I'm saying)

 

[mrzz]

OK, mrzz, I appreciate your cautioning me on the semantics, and I also appreciate that you get my point. Not to split hairs, but people can be guilty of misconceptions, as well as crimes. However, it would have been more generous of me to lay out my own perspective, and leave off censoring others for not seeing it the way I did. (I really can be a bullying pain in the ass, sometimes. )

If I could restate my point more gracefully, I would say that Nick used a lot of stereotypical tropes to get at Stan. In a single phrase, he implied that the girlfriend was "easy," and that he was "bested/cuckholded" by Kokkinakis. But both Thanasi and Donna are innocent in that exchange. To the same extent. They were used as pawns, shamelessly, IMO, by Kyrgios, to get at Stan, in a blatant display of gamesmanship, even though Stan didn't hear it at the moment. So my point would be not to buy into the Kyrgios view of women and men, at least in this instance. To see Donna as being portrayed as a "woman of easy virtue" is to buy into the gambit, even as people defend her against it. Kokkinakis shouldn't come off easier by being the "cuckolder." They were both wronged, and likely were embarrassed by what Nick said. Who wants their old relationships dragged out in public, unbidden, anyway? Ick.

I would not try to tell you anything on semantics (but the other way around is very welcomed). I just wanted to call attention to the fact that guilt is quite a strong word. And, yes, your point is indeed much more graceful now.

 

[Ricardo]

Sure hope so! I'll take him over prime Nadal and prime Federer.

(Not really of course, but you get what I'm saying)

Prime Novak isn't really facing prime Fedal, in fact he probably won't even see them much from now on.

 

[Ricardo]

OK, mrzz, I appreciate your cautioning me on the semantics, and I also appreciate that you get my point. Not to split hairs, but people can be guilty of misconceptions, as well as crimes. However, it would have been more generous of me to lay out my own perspective, and leave off censoring others for not seeing it the way I did. (I really can be a bullying pain in the ass, sometimes. )

If I could restate my point more gracefully, I would say that Nick used a lot of stereotypical tropes to get at Stan. In a single phrase, he implied that the girlfriend was "easy," and that he was "bested/cuckholded" by Kokkinakis. But both Thanasi and Donna are innocent in that exchange. To the same extent. They were used as pawns, shamelessly, IMO, by Kyrgios, to get at Stan, in a blatant display of gamesmanship, even though Stan didn't hear it at the moment. So my point would be not to buy into the Kyrgios view of women and men, at least in this instance. To see Donna as being portrayed as a "woman of easy virtue" is to buy into the gambit, even as people defend her against it. Kokkinakis shouldn't come off easier by being the "cuckolder." They were both wronged, and likely were embarrassed by what Nick said. Who wants their old relationships dragged out in public, unbidden, anyway? Ick.

actually you can't call it misconception just because you think differently. most people still perceive sexuality of males and females to be 'different', who are you to say they are 'out-dated' while you self-claim to be 'updated'? you are right that both Kokk and Donna were wronged, however you don't hand down judgement whether Kokk 'should' or shouldn't come off easier.... you are not in position to teach people about how they 'should' perceive sex moralities of men and women. You buy into the fashionable 'equality' concepts, it's your choice. To many it's bs and cheap thinking.

it's also ridiculously stupid to say that Nick is a sexist based on what he said. His intention was clear, he had bad blood with Stan and he was willing to say anything to upset him. Not the first time he mouths off and won't be his last, it's his character and that makes him colourful... for good or for bad, a lot of people find his careless demeanour interesting. He is the type who shows little to no respect to authority or his opponents or other things in general, but that may also be what makes him fearless on the big stages or against big names. Sure you can be 'polite' and still be fearless, that's just not him.

 

[Moxie]

actually you can't call it misconception just because you think differently. most people still perceive sexuality of males and females to be 'different', who are you to say they are 'out-dated' while you self-claim to be 'updated'? you are right that both Kokk and Donna were wronged, however you don't hand down judgement whether Kokk 'should' or shouldn't come off easier.... you are not in position to teach people about how they 'should' perceive sex moralities of men and women. You buy into the fashionable 'equality' concepts, it's your choice. To many it's bs and cheap thinking.

My point is that both were wronged, and you agree with that. I don't think that my position is "fashionable," but simply fair. I'm not sure how that's "cheap thinking," especially when you concur.

My version is a suggestion. But are you saying that yours, where the woman's morals are more in question, is "better" because it's more conventional?

 

[Denis]

Prime Novak isn't really facing prime Fedal, in fact he probably won't even see them much from now on.

Really? You wouldn't say.

 

[Tennis Fan]

actually you can't call it misconception just because you think differently. most people still perceive sexuality of males and females to be 'different', who are you to say they are 'out-dated' while you self-claim to be 'updated'? you are right that both Kokk and Donna were wronged, however you don't hand down judgement whether Kokk 'should' or shouldn't come off easier.... you are not in position to teach people about how they 'should' perceive sex moralities of men and women. You buy into the fashionable 'equality' concepts, it's your choice. To many it's bs and cheap thinking.

it's also ridiculously stupid to say that Nick is a sexist based on what he said. His intention was clear, he had bad blood with Stan and he was willing to say anything to upset him. Not the first time he mouths off and won't be his last, it's his character and that makes him colourful... for good or for bad, a lot of people find his careless demeanour interesting. He is the type who shows little to no respect to authority or his opponents or other things in general, but that may also be what makes him fearless on the big stages or against big names. Sure you can be 'polite' and still be fearless, that's just not him.

Great post. That's a slippery slope to take any stance and then chastise someone else who views the situation differently. The moment you start with "You're behind the times, and I'm ______." All communication tends to break down. IMO.

I also agree with your statement about "equality" concepts. I do find that much of the thinking on the subject is BS and cheap.

 

[britbox]

Nick Kyrgios’ controversial call out of Australian fans

Asked what advice he’d give to his 17-year-old opponent as he continued in the tournament with increased attention from his homeland, Kyrgios used the question to stick it to everyone who has (or hasn’t) supported him in Australia.

“I think the Canadians support their athletes a little better than the Australians do,” Kyrgios said. “So, I think he’s going to do great.”

Asked if he’d like to expand on his comment, the 21-year-old said: “I think it speaks for itself.”


http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...s/news-story/708a89e3a753262e3ba97be9bb9f127d

 

[Tennis Fan]

Nick Kyrgios’ controversial call out of Australian fans

Asked what advice he’d give to his 17-year-old opponent as he continued in the tournament with increased attention from his homeland, Kyrgios used the question to stick it to everyone who has (or hasn’t) supported him in Australia.

“I think the Canadians support their athletes a little better than the Australians do,” Kyrgios said. “So, I think he’s going to do great.”

Asked if he’d like to expand on his comment, the 21-year-old said: “I think it speaks for itself.”


http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...s/news-story/708a89e3a753262e3ba97be9bb9f127d

LOL, just play tennis Nick. At this age he has so much to be excited about, but all he does is moan and groan. I can't imagine what his attitude will be like when he hits his late twenties. Why is this guy so strange?

 

[britbox]

Nick goes ballistic in the match v Coric in Cinci.