Is Rafa in Decline?

[Kieran]

Thanks you, brother... :hug

 

[herios]

Bumping this up because there were a few hints to this subject today.
Rafa had not been ranked 7 since May2, 2005, so exactly 10 years since he was ranked top 5 non stop.

In the next few weeks we may see more swings as far as his ranking in concerned, before he starts to pull back up. Will this year turn out for him as it was for Roger 2013?
It will be interesting to see if we can draw a parallel between them.

 

[Kirijax]

Despite everything, I'm still not ready to write Nadal off. If he loses before the QF of the French Open then we can start predicting when Nadal will retire. I don't see him middling around Hewitt-style.

 

[Riotbeard]

Despite everything, I'm still not ready to write Nadal off. If he loses before the QF of the French Open then we can start predicting when Nadal will retire. I don't see him middling around Hewitt-style.

I agree. In decline is not the same as done. See Federer.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal isn't retiring any time soon.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I personally think we need to wait till Rafa has a season in which he loses more matches than he wins to be able to claim he's past his prime.

 

[herios]

I personally think we need to wait till Rafa has a season in which he loses more matches than he wins to be able to claim he's past his prime.

Equal number of wins and loses are usually recorded by average players who are not even in the top 20 or 30. That would be very poor for his standards.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I personally think we need to wait till Rafa has a season in which he loses more matches than he wins to be able to claim he's past his prime.

Equal number of wins and loses are usually recorded by average players who are not even in the top 20 or 30. That would be very poor for his standards.

I agree with your remark and I was about to say the same thing. If Rafa cannot win one of the
14 prime tourneys this year, it is safe to say he is in decline, independent of his win-loss record.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Wow, nobody got the sarcasm? Lord.

 

[Kirijax]

Wow, nobody got the sarcasm? Lord.

Some other Nadal fans have broken my Nadal-sarcasm meter. I was trying to think of a way to break it to you gently.

 

[nehmeth]

from Tignor's article: http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/05/magic-man/54864/#.VVAz0tNViko

"Nadal said that his wonky backhand sapped his confidence in his game as a whole, and that his slow starts in each set never let him build it back up. A slow start to a big match isn’t unusual for Rafa—he lost the first set 6-1 to Murray in Rome last spring. But doing it again to open the second set was weird and uncharacteristic. Just when he seemed to have worked himself into competent form, worked out the early nerves, and given the crowd a few winners to cheer, he became tentative all over again.

As for his shots themselves, it seemed to me that many of Nadal’s ugliest shanks came when he was trying to transition from a defensive position to an offensive one, when he was trying to go from blocking the ball back to taking a full swing. On a lot of those full swings, he caught the ball late."
----

Could Rafa have "the yips"? It's a term more commonly heard in golf, almost always with regard to a more "mature" player.

" Yips or the yips is the loss of fine motor skills without apparent explanation, in one of a number of different sports. Athletes affected by the yips demonstrate a sudden, unexplained loss of previous skills. Athletes affected by the yips sometimes recover their ability, sometimes compensate by changing technique, or may be forced to abandon their sport at the highest level." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips

"In some people, the yips are a type of focal dystonia, a condition that causes involuntary muscle contractions during a specific task. It's most likely related to overuse of a certain set of muscles, similar to writer's cramp. Anxiety worsens the effect.

Some athletes become so anxious and self-focused — overthinking to the point of distraction — that their ability to execute a skill, like putting, is impaired."
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/yips/basics/causes/con-20031359

What made me think of this? It was something that my father said when we were watching Fed a few years ago. One of arguably the greatest forehands in history began (inexplicably) to go awry. During a match Roger shanked a shot into the cheap seats and my father said he had "the yips". He went on to tell me about Ben Hogan, Arnold Palmer and a few others.

I had never heard of it used in conjunction with tennis before. But I read up on it a bit and it's not implausible. While watching Rafa Sunday, and even more so after reading Tignor's words, it brought to mind what my Dad had said about Roger that day.

 

[herios]

from Tignor's article: http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/05/magic-man/54864/#.VVAz0tNViko

"Nadal said that his wonky backhand sapped his confidence in his game as a whole, and that his slow starts in each set never let him build it back up. A slow start to a big match isn’t unusual for Rafa—he lost the first set 6-1 to Murray in Rome last spring. But doing it again to open the second set was weird and uncharacteristic. Just when he seemed to have worked himself into competent form, worked out the early nerves, and given the crowd a few winners to cheer, he became tentative all over again.

As for his shots themselves, it seemed to me that many of Nadal’s ugliest shanks came when he was trying to transition from a defensive position to an offensive one, when he was trying to go from blocking the ball back to taking a full swing. On a lot of those full swings, he caught the ball late."
----

Could Rafa have "the yips"? It's a term more commonly heard in golf, almost always with regard to a more "mature" player.

" Yips or the yips is the loss of fine motor skills without apparent explanation, in one of a number of different sports. Athletes affected by the yips demonstrate a sudden, unexplained loss of previous skills. Athletes affected by the yips sometimes recover their ability, sometimes compensate by changing technique, or may be forced to abandon their sport at the highest level." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips

"In some people, the yips are a type of focal dystonia, a condition that causes involuntary muscle contractions during a specific task. It's most likely related to overuse of a certain set of muscles, similar to writer's cramp. Anxiety worsens the effect.

Some athletes become so anxious and self-focused — overthinking to the point of distraction — that their ability to execute a skill, like putting, is impaired."
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/yips/basics/causes/con-20031359

What made me think of this? It was something that my father said when we were watching Fed a few years ago. One of arguably the greatest forehands in history began (inexplicably) to go awry. During a match Roger shanked a shot into the cheap seats and my father said he had "the yips" He went on to tell me about Ben Hogan, and Arnold Palmer and a few others.

I had never heard of it used in conjunction with tennis before. But I read up on it a bit and it's not implausible. While watching Rafa Sunday, and even more so after reading Tignor's words, it brought to mind what my Dad had said about Roger that day.

Interesting. thanks for sharing.

 

[Federberg]

It could be the yips. But for me, we still don't have enough data to confirm. It could simply be that it takes longer to recover the older you are. It could be loss of confidence. But the longer this goes on, the more likely it's the yips. In the interim, the rest of the tour will be circling like sharks. The advantage he used to get before the match had started may have evaporated already. Now he has to come out like a champion like Federer had to when this happened to him. There's still power in the Spanish bull yet. It might be less fun for Rafa-fans, but I'm betting there will be something even sweeter about the victories to come

 

[Kieran]

That's a great post, Nehmeth. At the risk of going pseud, I remember Sampras bunching his go-to forehand against Safin in Oz in 2002. They kinda get anxious and hurry the stroke. Age is certainly a factor, as is confidence. But Rafa was similarly outplayed by Nishi last year, so there's a general similarity, but not an exactness.

He's always about "the calm" but he also has to execute, and this is the troubling aspect. However, he executed Berdy just fine the day before. Nerves? Maybe. They get worse as you get older, too. Plus he's flirting with a precipitous ranking decline, which may make Rome a terrible place for him this week, no matter what his draw. Any draw was a good draw for Rafa on clay five years ago, but nowadays we don't know where the hits are coming from...

 

[Denis]

:exclamation:

from Tignor's article: http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/05/magic-man/54864/#.VVAz0tNViko

"Nadal said that his wonky backhand sapped his confidence in his game as a whole, and that his slow starts in each set never let him build it back up. A slow start to a big match isn’t unusual for Rafa—he lost the first set 6-1 to Murray in Rome last spring. But doing it again to open the second set was weird and uncharacteristic. Just when he seemed to have worked himself into competent form, worked out the early nerves, and given the crowd a few winners to cheer, he became tentative all over again.

As for his shots themselves, it seemed to me that many of Nadal’s ugliest shanks came when he was trying to transition from a defensive position to an offensive one, when he was trying to go from blocking the ball back to taking a full swing. On a lot of those full swings, he caught the ball late."
----

Could Rafa have "the yips"? It's a term more commonly heard in golf, almost always with regard to a more "mature" player.

" Yips or the yips is the loss of fine motor skills without apparent explanation, in one of a number of different sports. Athletes affected by the yips demonstrate a sudden, unexplained loss of previous skills. Athletes affected by the yips sometimes recover their ability, sometimes compensate by changing technique, or may be forced to abandon their sport at the highest level." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips

"In some people, the yips are a type of focal dystonia, a condition that causes involuntary muscle contractions during a specific task. It's most likely related to overuse of a certain set of muscles, similar to writer's cramp. Anxiety worsens the effect.

Some athletes become so anxious and self-focused — overthinking to the point of distraction — that their ability to execute a skill, like putting, is impaired."
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/yips/basics/causes/con-20031359

What made me think of this? It was something that my father said when we were watching Fed a few years ago. One of arguably the greatest forehands in history began (inexplicably) to go awry. During a match Roger shanked a shot into the cheap seats and my father said he had "the yips" He went on to tell me about Ben Hogan, and Arnold Palmer and a few others.

I had never heard of it used in conjunction with tennis before. But I read up on it a bit and it's not implausible. While watching Rafa Sunday, and even more so after reading Tignor's words, it brought to mind what my Dad had said about Roger that day.

Interesting. thanks for sharing.

Coria suffered from it. Ended his career. Remember the serves?

 

[Federberg]

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-In-Paris-Rafael-Nadal-will-have-a-mental-advantage-articolo23851.html

 

[nehmeth]

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-In-Paris-Rafael-Nadal-will-have-a-mental-advantage-articolo23851.html

"Rafa's level last year in Madrid was worse than it is now." Toni Nadal.

uzzled

Did he sleep through that final?

 

[Federberg]

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-In-Paris-Rafael-Nadal-will-have-a-mental-advantage-articolo23851.html

"Rafa's level last year in Madrid was worse than it is now." Toni Nadal.

uzzled

Did he sleep through that final?

I think he's trying to convince Rafa!

 

[Denis]

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-In-Paris-Rafael-Nadal-will-have-a-mental-advantage-articolo23851.html

"Rafa's level last year in Madrid was worse than it is now." Toni Nadal.

uzzled

Did he sleep through that final?

He sounds desperate. What was all that racket changing about? They changed in the winter, after Miami, before Madrid and will do so again after Wimbledon?

Why doesn't he try to convince rafa to play with his right hand while he is at it?

 

[herios]

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-In-Paris-Rafael-Nadal-will-have-a-mental-advantage-articolo23851.html

"Rafa's level last year in Madrid was worse than it is now." Toni Nadal.

uzzled

Did he sleep through that final?

He sounds desperate. What was all that racket changing about? They changed in the winter, after Miami, before Madrid and will do so again after Wimbledon?

Why doesn't he try to convince rafa to play with his right hand while he is at it?

Desperate measures at desperate times:blush: