Is Rafa going to win RG 2020?

[GameSetAndMath]

Novak apparently has arm, shoulder and neck issues. Even when he is fully fit, it ain't going to be easy to beat Ralph on dirt. Now, all of a sudden his chances go way way down.

I would rather see Tits (play final in that case).

 

[Bonaca]

Novak apparently has arm, shoulder and neck issues. Even when he is fully fit, it ain't going to be easy to beat Ralph on dirt. Now, all of a sudden his chances go way way down.

I would rather see Tits (play final in that case).

In both cases (injured Novak or Steffi) F would be waste of time. Both will lose in easy straight sets.
Sissyfuzz has zero chance, Bob would pound his BH like Maestros in the past, and Greeks BH isn’t near to Rogers.

We should both hope Novak isn’t seriously injured. Than we will at least see another classic, regardless of the result. Only a healthy Novak can prevent No 20.


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[GameSetAndMath]

In both cases (injured Novak or Steffi) F would be waste of time. Both will lose in easy straight sets.
Sissyfuzz has zero chance, Bob would pound his BH like Maestros in the past, and Greeks BH isn’t near to Rogers.

We should both hope Novak isn’t seriously injured. Than we will at least see another classic, regardless of the result. Only a healthy Novak can prevent No 20.


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Are you saying Tits is injured? AFAIK, he is in fine shape, health and fitness wise at the moment.

The looming question is only over Novak. Isn't that true?

 

[Jelenafan]

Novak apparently has arm, shoulder and neck issues. Even when he is fully fit, it ain't going to be easy to beat Ralph on dirt. Now, all of a sudden his chances go way way down.

I would rather see Tits (play final in that case).

However, Novak noticeably improved as the Busta match went on, and he said that was feeling fine at the end. So hard to gauge these cold conditions, but yes, if it takes him an hour to warm up and get up to speed in the SF's or finals that doesn't bode well.

 

[Moxie]

No, you simply don’t understand or don’t want to, same result.
I don’t mind what other say, my point is no excuse.
Everytime Nadal won he was better, happened 26 times.
My point is a theoretical one, saint moxie, when both play their best possible, Novak will win. He is more talented, better server and returner, better BH. So when everything would be perfect , Nadal would go down , simple as that.
Now you got it?

Be happy what Bob achieved in their h2h, looking at this he is better than everyone else, but still no2.

Saint Bonaca, it is you who is being a stubborn fanboy. Just because you prefer to believe that Novak has played less than he best when he's been beaten by Rafa does not make it true. There was certainly nothing wrong with his form at RG in '12 or '13, for sure. (I won't get into the USO, because we're talking about RG here.) He played his very best. He got beaten by a better player. Full stop.

It is your opinion that Novak is more "talented." (Very subjective word.) He's currently a better server, but he has had the yips on it in the past, and his second serve is much more vulnerable now, since his surgery. He has the better BH, because that is his big weapon. But Rafa has the better FH. As to ROS, Jim Courier has talked about it a couple of times over this RG...he says by the "eye test," we all think that Novak's is better, but statistically Rafa's is better, year after year. The numbers show it. Then there is Novak's junior tennis overhead smash. Compare that to Rafa's, which is the best there is.

You like to tear down Rafa as being "workmanlike." It suits you to do that because it's painful for Novak's fans that he got off to such a (relatively) late start, and has missed some big opportunities.

 

[10isfan]

It looks like Nadal will be holding the trophy unless Diego stops him because Tsitsi with his one hander or an injured Djoke can’t beat him.
I wonder what Djoke will do about the pinched nerve. It may very well be a chronic condition if not medically addressed.

 

[Bonaca]

Saint Bonaca, it is you who is being a stubborn fanboy. Just because you prefer to believe that Novak has played less than he best when he's been beaten by Rafa does not make it true. There was certainly nothing wrong with his form at RG in '12 or '13, for sure. (I won't get into the USO, because we're talking about RG here.) He played his very best. He got beaten by a better player. Full stop.

It is your opinion that Novak is more "talented." (Very subjective word.) He's currently a better server, but he has had the yips on it in the past, and his second serve is much more vulnerable now, since his surgery. He has the better BH, because that is his big weapon. But Rafa has the better FH. As to ROS, Jim Courier has talked about it a couple of times over this RG...he says by the "eye test," we all think that Novak's is better, but statistically Rafa's is better, year after year. The numbers show it. Then there is Novak's junior tennis overhead smash. Compare that to Rafa's, which is the best there is.

You like to tear down Rafa as being "workmanlike." It suits you to do that because it's painful for Novak's fans that he got off to such a (relatively) late start, and has missed some big opportunities.

So , holy moxie, you say he played his very best in these matches, that not subjective and „just“ your opinion? Of course he lost to a better player, that’s what I wrote.
When you meet a rival 55 times and lose 29, that proofs what to you?

Are you writing down your own opinion or just thoughts from Jim courier?
So you really think, when playing their very best, Nadal is the better returner or server?? Ok , but you will allow me to laugh on this one.

Are you arguing, that the overhead is making the difference in any of their matches? Important like Serve or ROS?

Come on mighty moxie.

Novak is clearly more talented and overall technically better than Nadal, full stop.
You can take that to the bank.


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[Bonaca]

Are you saying Tits is injured? AFAIK, he is in fine shape, health and fitness wise at the moment.

The looming question is only over Novak. Isn't that true?

Yes just Novak is handicapped.

I didn’t meant Greek is injured, just not good enough. No way he beats Nadal here.

Read that Novak has still issues with his neck, if so we can stop talking about who will win this.


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[Moxie]

So , holy moxie, you say he played his very best in these matches, that not subjective and „just“ your opinion? Of course he lost to a better player, that’s what I wrote.
When you meet a rival 55 times and lose 29, that proofs what to you?

Are you writing down your own opinion or just thoughts from Jim courier?
So you really think, when playing their very best, Nadal is the better returner or server?? Ok , but you will allow me to laugh on this one.

Are you arguing, that the overhead is making the difference in any of their matches? Important like Serve or ROS?

Come on mighty moxie.

Novak is clearly more talented and overall technically better than Nadal, full stop.
You can take that to the bank.


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What I'm saying is that there is nothing to say that he wasn't playing his best tennis, and I mean "peak" in those matches. He played well in those tournaments and on those years, leading up. You can't cherry-pick a match when your guy lost to the best in the game at RG, and say, "Oh, sigh, sadly he didn't play well that day." If he's peak, he's peak, and if he can't beat the guy whose best on the surface, he, at his peak, can't beat him at his peak. That's clear.

The difference in the h2h v the 2 of them is 3 matches. How much does that prove? And surface matters. I'm quoting Courier because he has the stats. You may not like it, but there it is. I didn't say that Rafa has a better serve, but he does have the better return of serve. Year after year. And at least Rafa doesn't have a horrible weakness, like Novak's smash. Or his head. Novak is not more talented than Nadal. He's differently talented, same with Federer. You don't get 19+ Majors without a huge talent. I'm sure that's apparent, even to a person with your prejudices.

 

[Bonaca]

What I'm saying is that there is nothing to say that he wasn't playing his best tennis, and I mean "peak" in those matches. He played well in those tournaments and on those years, leading up. You can't cherry-pick a match when your guy lost to the best in the game at RG, and say, "Oh, sigh, sadly he didn't play well that day." If he's peak, he's peak, and if he can't beat the guy whose best on the surface, he, at his peak, can't beat him at his peak. That's clear.

The difference in the h2h v the 2 of them is 3 matches. How much does that prove? And surface matters. I'm quoting Courier because he has the stats. You may not like it, but there it is. I didn't say that Rafa has a better serve, but he does have the better return of serve. Year after year. And at least Rafa doesn't have a horrible weakness, like Novak's smash. Or his head. Novak is not more talented than Nadal. He's differently talented, same with Federer. You don't get 19+ Majors without a huge talent. I'm sure that's apparent, even to a person with your prejudices.

Haha the best is your second sentence: So playing well means peak performance to you? Jesus, no one said Novak didn’t play very well, but clearly not peak. You still mix peak and prime.

Listen to what Nadal said about that by himself, about level of tennis, it will probably help you to accept.

The difference in h2h says a lot. It isn’t a average stat between average player. You have also take into Novak turned pro 2 years later than Nadal, this lifts the significance even more.

Surface matters, on dirt it is most important for Novak to play best possible because of bobs abilities on that surface. my thesis is still peak level Novak beats Bob even on clay in bo5.

When both play their best possible , Novak wins, simply because he is better in more parts of game/competion that matters for winning.

Do the numbers Courier uses, take into account the timeline since both play most succsseful? And no, Nadal isn’t the better returner on their highest levels.
What exactly is this stat about? Bring back more serves while standing far behind baseline? That is not what I meant by better returner. He has more problems with the best servers or fast surfaces. Why??

What about Nadals head when facing Novak?


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[Moxie]

You are impossibly dedicated to your man. No amount of logic and actual tennis results will change your mind. You are convinced that if Novak didn't win the match, he must not have been playing to his peak best. Same as the Fed fans who say that about Roger. I'm sorry, but sometimes they play their best, and get bested. Hard truth.

Here's a stat on serve and ROS:

Rafael Nadal Edges Past Novak Djokovic and Roger Federer in Serve and Return Stats

The three most accomplished players Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic are the strongest in the serve and return stats since 1990.

www.essentiallysports.com

 

[Bonaca]

You are impossibly dedicated to your man. No amount of logic and actual tennis results will change your mind. You are convinced that if Novak didn't win the match, he must not have been playing to his peak best. Same as the Fed fans who say that about Roger. I'm sorry, but sometimes they play their best, and get bested. Hard truth.

Here's a stat on serve and ROS:

Rafael Nadal Edges Past Novak Djokovic and Roger Federer in Serve and Return Stats

The three most accomplished players Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic are the strongest in the serve and return stats since 1990.

www.essentiallysports.com

That’s all from you? To all of my points?

Are you kidding me? You talk about LOGIC and ACTUAL RESULTS???? We did not start to talk about the near present, I was answering to your past dreams from 2010-13.
you are the irrational one.

The stat link is pure bullshit. So now you want to tell me Nadal have better serve than Novak AND Roger? Almighty Lord and you talk about logic.

Again, number of returned serves, due to standing far far far behind the baseline isn’t the same as quality of ROS in terms of direct winners and getting the opportunity to immediately dictate points! You really want to keep saying that Nadal is a better returner?

Wow.


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[tented]

Yes.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Yes.

clairvoyant.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

GOATdal

20 slams
10-4 vs Federer
10-6 vs Djokovic

 

[Kieran]

Is? Was. Done.