Is Nadal Hurting Himself on Hard Courts or...?

[monfed]

Have you counted how many GS Nadal has missed because his injuries?

He missed them because he didn't want to get his ass kicked.

 

[Moxie]

He missed them because he didn't want to get his ass kicked.

Oh, that's a realistic thought.

 

[Mastoor]

It could be you are forgetting how Nadal plays. Nadal can return shots that would be winners against most other players. What does that tell you? It tells you that he does more running than the opponent, to remain in a rally which he would otherwise lose. His opponents have to do more running than what they are used to, but they hardly cover more distance than Nadal. With the slower playing conditions on most surfaces, he has an advantage. If Nadal had a better serve, then he would surely make opponents run more than he does.

The best players, including Nadal, get to more balls than the others not because they run more, but because they are faster than the others and their running shots are also better than the others. Just look at the running stats of Big 3 when they play each other, if they show it on tv. I am yet to see Nadal's stats showing much more running than the other two.

Nadal does look more impressive than the others when he is running, so perhaps that is what makes people believe he puts more effort into something that Federer for example achieves with less effort. Federer often looks like it is completely effortless when he hits a missile through the court, but that is only the difference in image. Just look at their relevant stats and you'll see that there is no big difference in running between the two.

What if Nadal had a better serve? You think "If Nadal had a better serve, then he would surely make opponents run more than he does." No, mate. He'd finish all the points on his serve in one or two shots, there wouldn't be much running on either side.

 

[Fiero425]

The best players, including Nadal, get to more balls than the others not because they run more, but because they are faster than the others and their running shots are also better than the others. Just look at the running stats of Big 3 when they play each other, if they show it on tv. I am yet to see Nadal's stats showing much more running than the other two.

Nadal does look more impressive than the others when he is running, so perhaps that is what makes people believe he puts more effort into something that Federer for example achieves with less effort. Federer often looks like it is completely effortless when he hits a missile through the court, but that is only the difference in image. Just look at their relevant stats and you'll see that there is no big difference in running between the two.

What if Nadal had a better serve? You think "If Nadal had a better serve, then he would surely make opponents run more than he does." No, mate. He'd finish all the points on his serve in one or two shots, there wouldn't be much running on either side.

You say impressive, I say he looks like an idiot; him and Andy just running "suicides" back and forth along the baseline! It's no wonder Andy is ready for a wheel Chair and Nadal's already reserved the doctors to replace his hips! Make no mistake, Rafa runs more mainly due to him allowing no names, qualifiers, "has-beens," and WC's to stretch him to 3-5 hour matches! Nole should pay respect and maybe send gifts to Khachanov, Thiem, & Basilashvili who ran Nadal's arse to death for at least 4 long sets! He was done by the time he got to Del Po and tapped out, "NO MAS!" What top player do you know just defaults SF matches in 2 majors in 1 season? It's absolutely unprecedented to have so many brittle players at the same time! Nole doesn't exert himself half as much and Roger even less than that with his style of play! No top player runs as much as Nadal these days and it's just one hideous game to watch!

 

[Moxie]

You say impressive, I say he looks like an idiot; him and Andy just running "suicides" back and forth along the baseline! It's no wonder Andy is ready for a wheel Chair and Nadal's already reserved the doctors to replace his hips! Make no mistake, Rafa's run more mainly due to him allowing no names, qualifiers, "has-beens," and WC's to stretch him to 3-5 hour matches! Nole should pay respect and maybe send gifts to Khachanov, Thiem, & Basilashvili who ran Nadal's arse to death for at least 4 long sets! He was done by the time he got to Del Po and tapped out, "NO MAS!" What top player do you know just defaults SF matches in 2 majors in 1 season? It's absolutely unprecedented to have so many brittle players at the same time! Nole doesn't exert himself half as much and Roger even less than that with his style of play! No top player runs as much as Nadal these days and it's just one hideous game to watch!

That "idiot" has won 17 Majors. And it's not his hips, it's his knees. He was injured during each of those SFs, not before. I don't know why you have to make this such a moral judgement against him. It's sport. It happens. At least Mastoor is trying to be fair.

 

[atttomole]

The best players, including Nadal, get to more balls than the others not because they run more, but because they are faster than the others and their running shots are also better than the others. Just look at the running stats of Big 3 when they play each other, if they show it on tv. I am yet to see Nadal's stats showing much more running than the other two.

Nadal does look more impressive than the others when he is running, so perhaps that is what makes people believe he puts more effort into something that Federer for example achieves with less effort. Federer often looks like it is completely effortless when he hits a missile through the court, but that is only the difference in image. Just look at their relevant stats and you'll see that there is no big difference in running between the two.

What if Nadal had a better serve? You think "If Nadal had a better serve, then he would surely make opponents run more than he does." No, mate. He'd finish all the points on his serve in one or two shots, there wouldn't be much running on either side.

Seriously, are you implying that Federer covers as much ground as Nadal? I do not have the statistics either, but it looks evident that he covers more. Without even going to the big 3, Rafa must have covered more ground than Khachanov in that match because Khachanov was hitting the ball hard, with Nadal doing the chasing to keep the ball in play. Without Nadal's doggedness, that match could have ended in 3 sets for Khachanov.

You want us to believe that Nadal's intensity makes it look like he covers more ground than he actually does. What you see with your eyes is exactly what it is my friend.

If he had a better serve, Nadal would finish the points quicker than he does. However, I don't think he would finish in two or three shots because the playing conditions are slower. Some of the best servers like Federer need more shots to finish points nowadays.

 

[Fiero425]

That "idiot" has won 17 Majors. And it's not his hips, it's his knees. He was injured during each of those SFs, not before. I don't know why you have to make this such a moral judgement against him. It's sport. It happens. At least Mastoor is trying to be fair.

I call him an idiot because he has the game to approach the net and close out these points before they get to 20+ strokes! He does it enough when it gets into the crunch of a match late in the 4th and 5th set, but the fool should be able to avoid that by winning more efficiently! That's trying to win thru attrition and entropy hoping they'll give him the match; that's just plain ugly and boring tennis! I wasn't happy with Borg doing it, but he grew knowing he wasn't going to win multiple Wimbledons hanging on the baseline! He did enough of that at the FO win 6, dropping only 2 matches to 1 person; A. Panatta! He started serving and volleying with the best of them and would attack the net on any short ball! Nadal still scurries back to the baseline as if he's afraid of it! :whistle: :cuckoo:

 

[Carol]

You say impressive, I say he looks like an idiot; him and Andy just running "suicides" back and forth along the baseline! It's no wonder Andy is ready for a wheel Chair and Nadal's already reserved the doctors to replace his hips! Make no mistake, Rafa runs more mainly due to him allowing no names, qualifiers, "has-beens," and WC's to stretch him to 3-5 hour matches! Nole should pay respect and maybe send gifts to Khachanov, Thiem, & Basilashvili who ran Nadal's arse to death for at least 4 long sets! He was done by the time he got to Del Po and tapped out, "NO MAS!" What top player do you know just defaults SF matches in 2 majors in 1 season? It's absolutely unprecedented to have so many brittle players at the same time! Nole doesn't exert himself half as much and Roger even less than that with his style of play! No top player runs as much as Nadal these days and it's just one hideous game to watch!

Are you and monfed the same poster? if not I'm impressed the two of you so much alike or f you are different poster obviously have the same "brilliant brain" what a *******

 

[Front242]

Are you and monfed the same poster? if not I'm impressed the two of you so much alike or f you are different poster obviously have the same "brilliant brain" what a *******

His post actually makes perfect sense. He's not saying Nadal is useless but that he's actually pretty good at the net but for some reason stays away from it 90% of the time so it's own fault he plays very long matches and ends up injuring himself. The uneducated will say he's unlucky but that's nonsense and, in reality, it's his own fault. Shorter matches are better in the long term.

 

[Carol]

His post actually makes perfect sense. He's not saying Nadal is useless but that he's actually pretty good at the net but for some reason stays away from it 90% of the time so it's own fault he plays very long matches and ends up injuring himself. The uneducated will say he's unlucky but that's nonsense and, in reality, it's his own fault. Shorter matches are better in the long term.

His comments as usually are completely useless same like monfed. If Rafa would have a good serve he would be more often at the net and of course making more free points but I don't want to explain again and one more time what doesn't help and allow him to have a better serve

 

[Front242]

His comments as usually are completely useless same like monfed. If Rafa would have a good serve he would be more often at the net and of course making more free points but I don't want to explain again and one more time what doesn't help and allow him to have a better serve

Not true really. The courts are so damn slow that S&V just isn't an option for anyone anymore except maybe the faster AO last 2 years, Halle or Newport and possibly Dubai. Even the usually fast Cinci was slower this year. The USO was a disgrace this year. No chance you could S&V there. Guys with big serves were barely getting any aces.

But even without S&V or not having a better serve, there's no reason not to try and shorten points with an approach shot to the net and then attempt to finish it off. Nadal rarely does this which is strange considering his touch at the net is decent. That was Fiero's point.

 

[Fiero425]

Not true really. The courts are so damn slow that S&V just isn't an option for anyone anymore except maybe the faster AO last 2 years, Halle or Newport and possibly Dubai. Even the usually fast Cinci was slower this year. The USO was a disgrace this year. No chance you could S&V there. Guys with big serves were barely getting any aces.

I'm hardly suggesting S & V all the time, but even Nole does it "sometimes!" Becker's influence in that respect is still there and Nole does move to the net a lot more than Rafa! Just put a good serve in, then follow up on a weak return; Rafa just doesn't do it enough! :whistle:

 

[Front242]

I'm hardly suggesting S & V all the time, but even Nole does it "sometimes!" Becker's influence in that respect is still there and Nole does move to the net a lot more than Rafa! Just put a good serve in, then follow up on a weak return; Rafa just doesn't do it enough! :whistle:

Yeah, I had edited my post to point out I didn't mean S&V all the time either and that Nadal never even uses approach shots much even when the opportunity arises.

 

[Carol]

Novak does move to the net a lot more than Nadal? really? tell me when because I haven't seen that yet
Anyway talking about the return......

https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/infosys-race-to-40-september-2018

 

[Moxie]

Not true really. The courts are so damn slow that S&V just isn't an option for anyone anymore except maybe the faster AO last 2 years, Halle or Newport and possibly Dubai. Even the usually fast Cinci was slower this year. The USO was a disgrace this year. No chance you could S&V there. Guys with big serves were barely getting any aces.

But even without S&V or not having a better serve, there's no reason not to try and shorten points with an approach shot to the net and then attempt to finish it off. Nadal rarely does this which is strange considering his touch at the net is decent. That was Fiero's point.

Nadal often finishes at the net. You haven't been watching.

 

[Fiero425]

Nadal often finishes at the net. You haven't been watching.

Yeah, to take pictures, shake hands, & to leer over the net before challenging a call so ridiculous, he should lose 2 challenges! :whistle:

 

[Front242]

Nadal often finishes at the net. You haven't been watching.

Not often enough. Instead of plugging away for almost 5 hours against nobodies he should be attempting to end matches faster. You know it, and he knows it. Why he doesn't do it though is anyone's guess as he's pretty good at the net and I say that even though I can't stand him or his game. It would, however, be less vomit inducing to watch if he didn't just stand out there running back and forth non stop and then going all passive when he's getting his arse kicked and instead try something different, eg. approach the net and end the damn point before we all fall asleep. And to top it all off, he probably wouldn't be sitting on the sidelines as a spectator either or back home fishing in Mallorca.

 

[Fiero425]

Not often enough. Instead of plugging away for almost 5 hours against nobodies he should be attempting to end matches faster. You know it, and he knows it. Why he doesn't do it though is anyone's guess as he's pretty good at the net and I say that even though I can't stand him or his game. It would, however, be less vomit inducing to watch if he didn't just stand out there running back and forth non stop and then going all passive when he's getting his arse kicked and instead try something different, eg. approach the net and end the damn point before we all fall asleep. And to top it all off, he probably wouldn't be sitting on the sidelines as a spectator either or back home fishing in Mallorca.

...and more than likely would already be ahead of Roger in MAJORS if not breaking down so much early on! His USO record is abysmal in comparison to the status people want to give! Nole's been like Lendl from a past era; made final after final; won only 3, but competed well! Nadal stinks there and "down under!" This is why people with true historic values will look at how his record is inflated by winning so many FO's as apposed to Fedovic who have more balance to their careers; not to mention added gravy of so many YEC's! That's another event truly lacking on a potential "GOAT" resume! :whistle:

 

[Moxie]

...and more than likely would already be ahead of Roger in MAJORS if not breaking down so much early on! His USO record is abysmal in comparison to the status people want to give! Nole's been like Lendl from a past era; made final after final; won only 3, but competed well! Nadal stinks there and "down under!" This is why people with true historic values will look at how his record is inflated by winning so many FO's as apposed to Fedovic who have more balance to their careers; not to mention added gravy of so many YEC's! That's another event truly lacking on a potential "GOAT" resume! :whistle:

Good point. He'd probably be above Roger if he weren't so often injured. He's just that much better, when he actually plays. And funny that you say he has an abysmal record at the USO. Some would say he's over-shot the mark, but I agree with you. He'd have had more USO's, if not for injury. And he doesn't "stink" at the AO, but for injury. I don't know how you think his career is "inflated," however, by wins at RG. They are actual wins. They buff up his legacy. No one has ever been better on the terre battue. Neither Roger nor Nole can claim that kind of dominance. It's not a small notation in his legacy. It's huge.

 

[Moxie]

Not often enough. Instead of plugging away for almost 5 hours against nobodies he should be attempting to end matches faster. You know it, and he knows it. Why he doesn't do it though is anyone's guess as he's pretty good at the net and I say that even though I can't stand him or his game. It would, however, be less vomit inducing to watch if he didn't just stand out there running back and forth non stop and then going all passive when he's getting his arse kicked and instead try something different, eg. approach the net and end the damn point before we all fall asleep. And to top it all off, he probably wouldn't be sitting on the sidelines as a spectator either or back home fishing in Mallorca.

When you win 17 Majors, you can judge Nadal and his game.