Is Federer becoming the new Ferrer?

[Front242]

Well that's true - although I disagree about Roger beating Nole at Wimbo. Unless Nole has an off-day and Roger catches fire again. Maybe it'd happen if he knew Ralphy wasn't waiting, sharpening his blades for finals day... :snigger

I'd still make Federer a favourite against Nole on grass.

That makes 4 of us so far. So far more than those who don't in this thread.

 

[Kieran]

Well that's true - although I disagree about Roger beating Nole at Wimbo. Unless Nole has an off-day and Roger catches fire again. Maybe it'd happen if he knew Ralphy wasn't waiting, sharpening his blades for finals day... :snigger

I'd still make Federer a favourite against Nole on grass.

That makes 4 of us so far. So far more than those who don't in this thread.

That maybe true, brother, but let's wait and see. Federer is going to be almost 33 come Wimbledon. It's a tall ask for him to turn back that much time. As I said twice now (got to cover myself somehow :snigger ), "he's still Federer," but I don't see it happening...

 

[Front242]

^ Sure, anyone can win a set by a single break playing average tennis. It can be one point on deuce deciding it. A netcord could be the determining factor over the set scoreline rather than good play

OK let me repeat this sentence you just said by inserting an important caveat:

Anyone can win a set by a single break against an IN FORM RAFAEL NADAL AT THE FRENCH OPEN playing average tennis.

There, now you know how improbable that suggestion is.

Nadal wasn't really that in form the whole tournament though was he besides the semi and final in RG 2013.

So, Rafa was "inform" in the final, and Nole was off - and it went to 9-7 in the fifth. Now, you see how improbable THAT suggestion is! :lolz:

Not in the slightest. He destroyed Ferrer in the final. In the semi final you're referring to, Novak wasn't great as I said till the last 2 sets. He played better to take set 2 obviously but I personally didn't think he played that well till sets 4 and 5. Both were very tentative and passive in rallies the first two sets because of the wind, which thankfully had died down a lot towards the end. The wind definitely had an impact at the start but either way, I've seen him play a lot better than he did till sets 4 and 5.

 

[Front242]

Well that's true - although I disagree about Roger beating Nole at Wimbo. Unless Nole has an off-day and Roger catches fire again. Maybe it'd happen if he knew Ralphy wasn't waiting, sharpening his blades for finals day... :snigger

I'd still make Federer a favourite against Nole on grass.

That makes 4 of us so far. So far more than those who don't in this thread.

That maybe true, brother, but let's wait and see. Federer is going to be almost 33 come Wimbledon. It's a tall ask for him to turn back that much time. As I said twice now (got to cover myself somehow :snigger ), "he's still Federer," but I don't see it happening...

Not saying I see it happening either. He may not even make it far enough to play him. All I meant was if they did meet I certainly don't think Novak has to be off for Roger to win because for Roger to get far enough to meet Novak he'd have to be playing very well to reach the latter stages. And clearly he's very dangerous if he makes it that far against anyone not named Nadal, although I reckon Roger would destroy Toni Nadal and Sebastian Nadal even if they played him at once

 

[DarthFed]

Roger would have a good chance vs. Nole on grass, no question about it. Nole struggles a lot more on grass and if Roger is serving well and playing even remotely clean Nole would be in trouble.

Kieran's memory of the 2012 match is understandably a bit blurry, in the pivotal 3rd set Roger played amazing and there was no way Nole was winning that set. It was set 4 where Nole was very disappointing, barely putting up any resistance and allowed Roger to coast to victory. Both were lackluster in the 1st set which Roger won.

 

[Kieran]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

 

[Haelfix]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

Well lets just say I think it would be a close match (like all Fed-Novak affairs), however gun to my head i'd still pick Roger.

Having said that, the 2012 match was more a testament to Roger out suaving Novak on grass and less of an outright domination like it sometimes can be on fast courts. I felt that Novak held up surprisingly well and really was able to dictate during a few moments in the 2nd set (which no one has ever really done to Roger on grass other than Berdych and Murray at the olympics).

 

[DarthFed]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

It would have been a total steal for Nole to win that set. Nole saved quite a few break points earlier that set and was generally up against it. And I seem to remember a lot worse overhead blooper last year when Nole was supposedly "heroic" at RG.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Also keeping in mind, grass tennis can be very quick. Roger breaks Nole just once and the set can be over in 25 minutes, with much shorter rallies than hard courts. So, it might not even come to who is physically fitter or how old Roger is...That's why if Roger is going to win another slam, Wimbledon is the most likely candidate in my opinion.

 

[Kieran]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

Well lets just say I think it would be a close match (like all Fed-Novak affairs), however gun to my head i'd still pick Roger.

Having said that, the 2012 match was more a testament to Roger out suaving Novak on grass and less of an outright domination like it sometimes can be on fast courts. I felt that Novak held up surprisingly well and really was able to dictate during a few moments in the 2nd set (which no one has ever really done to Roger on grass other than Berdych and Murray at the olympics).

[cough] Rafa...

 

[Haelfix]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

Well lets just say I think it would be a close match (like all Fed-Novak affairs), however gun to my head i'd still pick Roger.

Having said that, the 2012 match was more a testament to Roger out suaving Novak on grass and less of an outright domination like it sometimes can be on fast courts. I felt that Novak held up surprisingly well and really was able to dictate during a few moments in the 2nd set (which no one has ever really done to Roger on grass other than Berdych and Murray at the olympics).

[cough] Rafa...

Fedal matches rarely has Rafa dictating play (a few times like at RG08 and some of the recent slow hardcourt matches notwithstanding) for the most part its usually Federer dictating and Rafa simply being a wall and eventually getting him to implode.

I mean the type of play where a guy is simply blown off the court by pace/angles or something of that nature. Really the only time i've ever seen that on grass was Berdych.

 

[Front242]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

It would have been a total steal for Nole to win that set. Nole saved quite a few break points earlier that set and was generally up against it. And I seem to remember a lot worse overhead blooper last year when Nole was supposedly "heroic" at RG.

You beat me to it with the dig on the botched RG overhead. Gee, I wonder which was worse. :s

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

[attachment=88]i can still see Federer winning a major or two.

 

[TsarMatt]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

Well lets just say I think it would be a close match (like all Fed-Novak affairs), however gun to my head i'd still pick Roger.

Having said that, the 2012 match was more a testament to Roger out suaving Novak on grass and less of an outright domination like it sometimes can be on fast courts. I felt that Novak held up surprisingly well and really was able to dictate during a few moments in the 2nd set (which no one has ever really done to Roger on grass other than Berdych and Murray at the olympics).

[cough] Rafa...

Fedal matches rarely has Rafa dictating play (a few times like at RG08 and some of the recent slow hardcourt matches notwithstanding) for the most part its usually Federer dictating and Rafa simply being a wall and eventually getting him to implode.

I mean the type of play where a guy is simply blown off the court by pace/angles or something of that nature. Really the only time i've ever seen that on grass was Berdych.

Really? Have you not seen their previous, like, 4 encounters? Federer looks so vulnerable and weaponless on the backhand wing due to Nadal's heavy groundstrokes. To say Fed dictates play in their encounters is pretty bewildering.

I mean, look at the AO this year. Roger was killing it against Tsonga and Murray, playing clean, orgasmic and aggressive tennis. Once he came up against Nadal, he just looked like a different player, seldom dictating play and creating chances.

 

[Riotbeard]

Nole had break point at 4-4 in the third, and only lost it when he tightened in the tenth game, after Roger kept his nerve. This game contains a Novak blooper-reel howler of an over-head. Good mugging by Roger though. Roger was mentally stronger and hitting cleaner in the indoor setting, but it's a stretch to say there's "no way Nole was winning that set." Roger was better - but it was 6-4, and a lousy final game by Nole.

Totally agree with you on the 4th set...

Well lets just say I think it would be a close match (like all Fed-Novak affairs), however gun to my head i'd still pick Roger.

Having said that, the 2012 match was more a testament to Roger out suaving Novak on grass and less of an outright domination like it sometimes can be on fast courts. I felt that Novak held up surprisingly well and really was able to dictate during a few moments in the 2nd set (which no one has ever really done to Roger on grass other than Berdych and Murray at the olympics).

[cough] Rafa...

Fedal matches rarely has Rafa dictating play (a few times like at RG08 and some of the recent slow hardcourt matches notwithstanding) for the most part its usually Federer dictating and Rafa simply being a wall and eventually getting him to implode.

I mean the type of play where a guy is simply blown off the court by pace/angles or something of that nature. Really the only time i've ever seen that on grass was Berdych.

Are you saying Fed dictates rallies with Rafa using his one handed backhand, because it's pretty much undisputed that Rafa has successfully been enacting the strategy pin Roger in his backhand corner, until he makes an error for a decade. To me that is the definition of dictating play. I would hazard to say that nobody dictates the terms of any single matchup more than Rafa against Fed.

 

[Haelfix]

Yea I mean I suppose its a matter of definition. I would say Rafa pins or neutralizes Federer rather than dictates play. The prototype of the type of play that I have in mind, is someone like Agassi who takes the center of the court and moves the opponent left and right like a pendulum. I mean if you go through Fedal matches, I think it would probably be Rafa who has had to do the most running if you averaged it out.

But yes, the last few slow hardcourt meetings involved more of what I would call dictating rather than older Fedal matches where it was more aggressor vs defender. Anyway, my post was more about the grass matchup.

 

[Kieran]

On grass, Rafa dictated to Roger fairly usefully in the fourth set of Wimbledon in 2007, and in the first two sets of 2008. That one was close to being a wash-out, and not through counter-punching defensive stuff, but by sheer will and aggression...

 

[Front242]

^ You could call it that but most even non Federer fans would call it 2 very passive first sets by Roger at Wimbledon 2008 before he woke up and played as he should have from the start. No intensity, same as Djokovic the last 2 years. At least Fed's intensity came back eventually.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ You could call it that but most even non Federer fans would call it 2 very passive first sets by Roger at Wimbledon 2008 before he woke up and played as he should have from the start. No intensity, same as Djokovic the last 2 years. At least Fed's intensity came back eventually.

It's not what he "could" call it. It's what it was: Federer was outplayed from the baseline for much of the 2007 and 2008. I agree with Haelfix that "dominated" is a bit of a stretch in the sense of moving a player around with pure aggression, but that was never Rafa's style of domination, at least not against Federer (he's more about handcuffing him on his backhand side). It's important to note that even when Roger woke up and played "as he should have from the start" he was still mostly second best from the baseline. Though admittedly, he was much better off the forehand side as that shot really came to life in the last 3 sets, which turned the match into the epic it was.

 

[Federberg]

^ I have to agree with BS. I was at the final in 2007, and I remember walking up Church Road at the end of the match with a friend who watched the final with me. It was only when we were discussing the match afterwards that we realised that Rafa had never been ahead at any point in the match. From where we were sitting it always felt like a rearguard action on Rogers part. Rafa absolutely battered him from the baseline, and it was extremely stressful for us Fedfans watching! Extraordinary match. Roger lost his cool in the 4th? set because he didn't trust hawkeye, and to be fair the decisions seemed to go against him. And it was only after he managed to hold against some break points in the 5th set, that Rafa seemed to have a mental lapse for a few points, allowing Roger to break. As my buddy said.."That Federer was a stone cold assassin!". The point is... Roger was really hanging in there. And it was his serve that kept him in the match. He got a load of cheapos that kept his service games ticking, but anytime it got into a baseline rally he was in trouble. But Rafa's tactic was very clear.. he kept it away from Rogers forehand. It was actually the first time I changed my view on that tactic. I always thought - before that - that Rafa targetted Rogers backhand as a weakness. But in that match I understood that it was a matter of survival for Rafa. Anytime Roger managed to get the ball on his forehand the point would end almost immediately on that one shot. Exceptional!