Is Djokovic a threat to Federer's 17?

[DarthFed]

That "old" Federer is still #2 therefore better than anyone in the world except for one guy. He says himself that he is playing better than ever, his coaches say so, many commentators say so and I don't see why anyone else would say otherwise except to play down competition of today.

Lol, just seeing this now. What's Federer supposed to say, "I'm badly washed up" He has to talk himself up like that to keep a competitive edge. As for the commentators saying it I think I've only heard the hyperbolic commentators such as Johnny Mac and Mary Carillo saying stuff like that. If he was playing as well as ever he'd be in every single slam final like he was back in the day, unless you're going to argue that guys like Murray or Stan would stop him aside from the legends that have stopped him in recent years such as Seppi, Stakhovsky, Robredo, Gulbis, Tsonga, etc.

Roger can't move to his forehand at all anymore and that's made the shot unrecognizable for the past handful of years. He serves great and has gotten even better at net in recent years, plays a very aggressive game even if it does lead to a lot of errors and that's enough to put him in the top 3. His level gets greatly overstated, truth is he didn't age that great but he came down from a high mountain. I can't think of one reason that a 34 year old Federer shouldn't be way above Murray for the past 1.5 years (yes he has been injured now) but he isn't. But for the weird people expecting he wouldn't be in the top 10 in his 30's that was just wishful thinking.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

lets just remember how difficult winning a major actually is..fans often get caught up in the present,

we can look back in history and see loads of cases of players winning clumps of major's and then that slows to a trickle or stops. laver, borg, McEnroe, Sampras, Federer, nadal, even jim courier lol..

I see Wimbledon and usopen as being wide open, as newer or new players are improving and its also other players more preferred surface's.

 

[EdbergsGhost]

Sampras fans were the big naysayers when Federer was approaching the record. Then it was broken. If Wimbledon is wide open, it's because Roger is a question mark and Nadal probably won't even play. My guess is, without a Kyrgios or a McEnroe coached Raonic upsetting one of the top seeds, we are probably going to see the same two players in the Wimbledon finals.

While I realize winning one major is a big achievement, right now, Novak's 'b' game is better than the best of most of the rest. I think there is a real possibility he at least ties Fed at 17.

 

[Billie]

I am still grasping at the historic feat Nole achieved today: he is the only man to hold all 4 slams on 3 different surfaces:

 

[Moxie]

I am still grasping at the historic feat Nole achieved today: he is the only man to hold all 4 slams on 3 different surfaces:

Forgot about the aspect of it being on 3 surfaces. Nice bonus. In any case, a historic achievement.

 

[Tennis Fan]

Hey, Cali! Nice to have a new start here, eh? No need to dig over old bones, or assume you know people's minds...or, not? Look, I'm not interested in Djokovic passing Nadal, that is true, but it's not "wishful thinking" on my part, what I posted. It's a counter-argument to the notion that there is nothing to stop Novak. A lack of imagination is the reason we never see the next season's surprises coming. Like Wawrinka. You tip your own hand to say how much Djokovic is going to get at Nadal's records...which is what you hope. Or by saying that Rafa "weaseled" some Major victories over Nole. (3 since the annus mirabilis of 2011. That's some "weaseling", eh? Surely couldn't be his tennis.) You're doing your own wishful thinking, mate. Everyone keeps saying that Novak at 28 is a different animal. That may be so, but isn't that wishful thinking, of a sort, based on statistics? Everyone sees the unblocked path to glory, until it gets blocked. Djokovic got the Nadal "monkey" off his back, (which was a bit like swatting a fly this year,) only to get thwarted by Stan. Roger had a clear path to #18 last year at the USO, with Novak out, and then Cilic happened to him. Even an 18-wheeler barreling down the road can blow a tire or hit a pot-hole. I'm not wishing for it, I'm just saying it happens often enough. Just ask Serena.

Roger is just waiting Rafa and Nole out ...

Ha ha ha!

 

[Mastoor]

Lol, just seeing this now. What's Federer supposed to say, "I'm badly washed up" He has to talk himself up like that to keep a competitive edge. As for the commentators saying it I think I've only heard the hyperbolic commentators such as Johnny Mac and Mary Carillo saying stuff like that. If he was playing as well as ever he'd be in every single slam final like he was back in the day, unless you're going to argue that guys like Murray or Stan would stop him aside from the legends that have stopped him in recent years such as Seppi, Stakhovsky, Robredo, Gulbis, Tsonga, etc.

Roger can't move to his forehand at all anymore and that's made the shot unrecognizable for the past handful of years. He serves great and has gotten even better at net in recent years, plays a very aggressive game even if it does lead to a lot of errors and that's enough to put him in the top 3. His level gets greatly overstated, truth is he didn't age that great but he came down from a high mountain. I can't think of one reason that a 34 year old Federer shouldn't be way above Murray for the past 1.5 years (yes he has been injured now) but he isn't. But for the weird people expecting he wouldn't be in the top 10 in his 30's that was just wishful thinking.

Not only that Federer can move to his forehand, he is still the fastest mover of them all, I watched USO final again couple of months ago and noticed that Federer was often in recovery position even before the ball was coming to No1e, from there he often didn't have to move after the ball came back just to adjust his position, funny enough more often than not to his forehand.

I also don't see what is weird about people expecting him to be in top 10 in his 30's, he IS ranked 3 just 2 months short of the age of 35.

I think Federer has been depressed since the AO loss but I hope he will come back soon so No1e can better their h2h

 

[DarthFed]

He is not even close to being the fastest mover anymore. Roger's movement is a relative weakness compared to the other top players and that is to be expected at his age. And I said that people seemed surprised that he is top 5 or even top 10 in his 30's and I always found that laughable as though the guy has no talent. If you're 3 times better than 99.9% of players when you're in your 20's and half the player you were when you reach you're 30's that means you are still a little better than the vast majority of players. Being #3 in the current game isn't that impressive when you consider the player who is directly ahead of him.

 

[Mastoor]

He is not even close to being the fastest mover anymore. Roger's movement is a relative weakness compared to the other top players and that is to be expected at his age. And I said that people seemed surprised that he is top 5 or even top 10 in his 30's and I always found that laughable as though the guy has no talent. If you're 3 times better than 99.9% of players when you're in your 20's and half the player you were when you reach you're 30's that means you are still a little better than the vast majority of players. Being #3 in the current game isn't that impressive when you consider the player who is directly ahead of him.

Find USO final, watch how he moves after he hits the ball and just with sieds of your eyes when Novak hits the ball back while still focusing where Federer is, when the ball comes back and how he adjust to the shot, Federer IS STILL the fastest of them all.

 

[DarthFed]

Brother, I've watched him plenty and he is no longer in the same realm when it comes to moving as Nole, Rafa and Murray. There'd be something wrong if he did move that well still!

What you're getting at is anticipation and yes he anticipates great still but if you get him on the run the decline in movement is clear and he can no longer transition well from defense to offense which is a big reason why he hasn't had a good year since 2012.

 

[Mastoor]

Everyone watches him, but hardly anyone sees what he does. Try to watch the way I said, it will give you completely different perspective.

How otherwise you can explain, that most time you see him in pretty much one place hardly ever struggling to get to the ball along baseline and in the end of the match you read he ran more than his opponent?

As for "if you get him on the run the decline in movement is clear", if you get him in that situation, you'd probably get everyone else.

 

[Ricardo]

Everyone watches him, but hardly anyone sees what he does. Try to watch the way I said, it will give you completely different perspective.

How otherwise you can explain, that most time you see him in pretty much one place hardly ever struggling to get to the ball along baseline and in the end of the match you read he ran more than his opponent?

As for "if you get him on the run the decline in movement is clear", if you get him in that situation, you'd probably get everyone else.

You get Djoker and Murray on the run they'd do just fine. Stop getting delusional about a mid 30s player being the fastest of them all. It's simply stupid and a silly attempt to validate Djoker's wins against him. This is a player at an age where 95% of the players would've retired, and no, he is not as good as he used to be.

Surely someone will do the same when Novak becomes 35 yo and loses to somebody, and say he is still at his peak and fast as ever.

 

[DarthFed]

Everyone watches him, but hardly anyone sees what he does. Try to watch the way I said, it will give you completely different perspective.

How otherwise you can explain, that most time you see him in pretty much one place hardly ever struggling to get to the ball along baseline and in the end of the match you read he ran more than his opponent?

As for "if you get him on the run the decline in movement is clear", if you get him in that situation, you'd probably get everyone else.

Roger rarely runs more than his opponent. Usually it's only against Djokovic where he might move more than Novak. If he does that's a bad sign. The bottom line is he isn't as fast as before or close to it and he isn't as good as before or close to it. If the eye test isn't good enough just look at the results. After winning his last slam there have been 15 slams, he has won 0 and only made 3 finals. And many of those slam losses were to nobodies.

 

[Ricardo]

Roger rarely runs more than his opponent. Usually it's only against Djokovic where he might move more than Novak. If he does that's a bad sign. The bottom line is he isn't as fast as before or close to it and he isn't as good as before or close to it. If the eye test isn't good enough just look at the results. After winning his last slam there have been 15 slams, he has won 0 and only made 3 finals. And many of those slam losses were to nobodies.

you know, by pointing out facts it would invalidate his claim that one of Djoker's main rivals is at his peak thus taking off the shines of his wins. So yeah, Fedal are all at their absolute best..... thus one retired in 3rd round and the other didn't even show up.

 

[DarthFed]

^ Yes, we all know what game he is trying to play here. I honestly think the competition kind of evened out if we are comparing Roger and Nole. Nole had it tougher than Roger in his early to mid 20's and Roger had it tougher than Nole in his late 20's and barring something drastic he will have had it tougher in his 30's too. Pointing out that Roger and Rafa have declined is just a fact, it doesn't take away from what Nole has done. By winning yesterday he reached a level of tour dominance that hasn't been seen in nearly 50 years.

 

[Billie]

^ Yes, we all know what game he is trying to play here. I honestly think the competition kind of evened out if we are comparing Roger and Nole. Nole had it tougher than Roger in his early to mid 20's and Roger had it tougher than Nole in his late 20's and barring something drastic he will have had it tougher in his 30's too. Pointing out that Roger and Rafa have declined is just a fact, it doesn't take away from what Nole has done. By winning yesterday he reached a level of tour dominance that hasn't been seen in nearly 50 years.

I agree about the competition. Naturally that Fed is slower now, it is inevitable for everybody. He can still string some number of great matches and win a tournament. This year he's been injured, but before this year. These 3 are so good that they make their competition look weak.

 

[Ricardo]

I agree about the competition. Naturally that Fed is slower now, it is inevitable for everybody. He can still string some number of great matches and win a tournament. This year he's been injured, but before this year. These 3 are so good that they make their competition look weak.

tell that to your fellow Djoker fan Mastoor, he still insists the old guy is fast as ever and 'the fastest of them all'

 

[Federberg]

That "old" Federer is still #2 therefore better than anyone in the world except for one guy. He says himself that he is playing better than ever, his coaches say so, many commentators say so and I don't see why anyone else would say otherwise except to play down competition of today.

he might be playing smarter than he ever did, but better? No way no how. Commentators have an agenda which makes it easy to understand why they would make that comment. I guarantee you if you pull one of them aside and talk to them privately they would say something different. I'm not even going to discuss the obvious reasons why Federer or his coaches (don't recall any of his coaches making comparisons between his current play and the past by the way... might have made comments about specific shots), those are far too obvious, I wouldn't want to patronise you. Anyway all you have to do is look at the guys movement now versus in his peak years. It's painfully clear he is not the same, which is I suppose why he needed to play smarter. The guy is raging against the dying of the light, a true great

 

[shawnbm]

Yes, he is. I find it very hard to believe he does not win one more major this year, and then he is merely one behind Pete and Rafa on the list. Can anybody here (barring injury) see him not snapping up at least one major next year, likely in Melbourne for the 7th time? Once you are within 3 of the record, you are within striking distance. So, yes, I think Novak is a threat now that he won the first two this year (which I did not expect to happen).

 

[britbox]

Yes, he is. I find it very hard to believe he does not win one more major this year, and then he is merely one behind Pete and Rafa on the list. Can anybody here (barring injury) see him not snapping up at least one major next year, likely in Melbourne for the 7th time? Once you are within 3 of the record, you are within striking distance. So, yes, I think Novak is a threat now that he won the first two this year (which I did not expect to happen).

Well he's won 2 of 2 since this thread started and if looking at the landscape then it's pretty hard to see him not approaching it at least.

Another Question is, could he even win the Calendar Year Grand Slam this year? or even the Golden Calendar Year Grand Slam? I think the former would propel him to the top of the pile in my eyes and the latter... well - they'll be talking about it in 100 years time.