Internazionali BNL d'Italia - ATP 1000 - May 11th to May 18th

[the AntiPusher]

Exciting match but probably not a happy night's viewing for Nadal fans.

Are you Nuts! That was phoenomal tennis by Rafa and Murray.. the best match I seen by far.. Rafa is back.. If Rafa can regain his legs he will crush Grigor.. Finally , My top dawg is Back. Thank you Andy Murray for producing that type of tennis out of Rafa..

Eh, did you see the first set? .... uzzled

Nope. but I did see the 2nd and 3rd! What's your point.. its how you finish not how you begin

All the hard work was for nothing.

I would get banned for what I would really like to say to you. I hope Iona empty her "Trash can" on your absolutely thoughtless post. This comes from a person who admires Soderling as a tennis player. Nuff Said!:laydownlaughing

Seems like you're contradicting yourself...

I dont get your post

 

[Denis]

Compare Rafa now, with the way he mooched about the court in MC.

Compare him now with the first week in Paris last year.

I see only positive signs, especially in how he raised his level. The guy must be knackered! He's played nine hours of gruelling tennis in three days, but he's determined and grimly sticking to the task. He was appalling against Ferrer and Almagro. Woeful. Neither of them would have beaten him tonight...

Scoreboard-posting. If Rafa loses, he's aweful. If he wins, all positive signs.

As I said before: really curious about how Nadal will play against Dimitrov. Also because Im curious if Dimitrov finally has the goods to live up to his promise. He's been making inroads lately. Tomorrow will be a nice test for both of them, and definitely more so than today.

Well, up until about an hour ago you had Grigor as favourite to win RG ahead of Rafa so I'm obviously very nervous about him now...

Nah, not my favorite. My favorite would have to be Djokovic.

Too bad I can't see the match tomorrow, should be a good one!

 

[Kirijax]

All the hard work was for nothing.

That's going a bit far IMO but if Murray was ever going to beat Nadal on clay, this was his chance but not to be. This is all we've seen from Murray since January, no matter what the surface or opponent. I'll reserve my thoughts on where he is heading until after the grass court season but it's been the same thing time and time again since he came back. So many three set matches and he falls at the end.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Broken, compare Rafa v Ferrer in MC and Rafa in the last two sets tonight, and the last two sets last night, and tell me there's no improvement. There's a huge improvement. And it isn't just "being competitve" because that's no use if your shots are landing on the service line like timid rabbits, like they were against Daveed.

If he played like this in MC, he'd have won that QF and maybe he takes the title. His intensity is up, he served very well in parts tonight, and after a wayward ( :snigger ) opening set, he grew in energy levels and intensity. He's much improved tonight, even on last night, especially if we take into account his lethargic start...

Ah, OK. So compared to his worst clay court career performance, a match in which he made 44 unforced errors in two sets, he played better. In that case I agree.

Unfortunately, that doesn't say much at all. See my point again, re: Improvement. His average level this clay season (which is higher than the level he displayed against Ferrer) isn't that far below what he displayed tonight until the final set, and that's NOT good.

I don't know why Rafa fans are the only fans in the world who are so sensitive about someone being critical of Nadal's game, especially when that someone is a Nadal fan himself. I talked about this back at Indian Wells, and was accused (not by you) of being too negative. I talked about it in Miami, and I was assured that Nadal was serving well and playing great because he crushed a bunch of overmatched opponents. Maybe I, like anyone who was watching his game closely, was on to something?

No, I don't mind you being critical, because you're objective, and in general I agree: he's been off his game since Flushing Meadows, and I believe that's understandable, given how driven he was after Wimbledon. And he's not playing his best here, obviously, if he's having to go deep in the third against Andy, and dropping sets against Simon and Youzhney.

But by the same token, he's definitely upped his level since MC. And he looks more engaged with the task now, than he did in Miami, or MC. He looks like he's waking up. We've seen it before, his level looks shy even in Paris. Forget even about last year, where he was dodgy for four rounds: Remember 2010, when you and I were a little concerned about his level before the Soderling final, and then he won that with a great display?

I think he may not win Rome, because I think he's working too hard out there, but it's been a much more encouraging event than Madrid, and Madrid was even better than MC...

Well yeah, he's played better in some stretches this tournament (though you could have said the same after the Berdych match in Madrid, and Rafa has yet to match the level he displayed in that match). But the problem is the improvement is still minute compared to where his level needs to be at this stage of the clay court season.

So if he reaches the final and loses to Novak, that's a HUGE problem given that he's already admitted to struggling with confidence. That's why I can't be encouraged at all by this slight improvement, as it's really nowhere near enough. Let's face it, we know what the real goal is (RG), and we know who he has to beat to win that tournament. He's not beating him playing like this, we'll both agree.

 

[Denis]

Are you Nuts! That was phoenomal tennis by Rafa and Murray.. the best match I seen by far.. Rafa is back.. If Rafa can regain his legs he will crush Grigor.. Finally , My top dawg is Back. Thank you Andy Murray for producing that type of tennis out of Rafa..

Eh, did you see the first set? .... uzzled

Nope. but I did see the 2nd and 3rd! What's your point.. its how you finish not how you begin

All the hard work was for nothing.

I would get banned for what I would really like to say to you. I hope Iona empty her "Trash can" on your absolutely thoughtless post. This comes from a person who admires Soderling as a tennis player. Nuff Said!:laydownlaughing

Seems like you're contradicting yourself...

I dont get your post

Well, as you said: its about how you do at the end. Murray totally imploded at the end. So fronts criticism is more than fair, and actually is in line with that point. Still you are trashtalking him. I dont get it.

 

[Kieran]

Compare Rafa now, with the way he mooched about the court in MC.

Compare him now with the first week in Paris last year.

I see only positive signs, especially in how he raised his level. The guy must be knackered! He's played nine hours of gruelling tennis in three days, but he's determined and grimly sticking to the task. He was appalling against Ferrer and Almagro. Woeful. Neither of them would have beaten him tonight...

Scoreboard-posting. If Rafa loses, he's aweful. If he wins, all positive signs.

As I said before: really curious about how Nadal will play against Dimitrov. Also because Im curious if Dimitrov finally has the goods to live up to his promise. He's been making inroads lately. Tomorrow will be a nice test for both of them, and definitely more so than today.

Well, up until about an hour ago you had Grigor as favourite to win RG ahead of Rafa so I'm obviously very nervous about him now...

Nah, not my favorite. My favorite would have to be Djokovic.

Too bad I can't see the match tomorrow, should be a good one!

You had him favourite ahead of Rafa, though, which made me chuckle. But yeah, I like Grigor, if Rafa jacked it in tomorrow and retired, I would probably find something in me to cheer for someone else and it would possibly be Grigor...

 

[Kieran]

Broken, compare Rafa v Ferrer in MC and Rafa in the last two sets tonight, and the last two sets last night, and tell me there's no improvement. There's a huge improvement. And it isn't just "being competitve" because that's no use if your shots are landing on the service line like timid rabbits, like they were against Daveed.

If he played like this in MC, he'd have won that QF and maybe he takes the title. His intensity is up, he served very well in parts tonight, and after a wayward ( :snigger ) opening set, he grew in energy levels and intensity. He's much improved tonight, even on last night, especially if we take into account his lethargic start...

Ah, OK. So compared to his worst clay court career performance, a match in which he made 44 unforced errors in two sets, he played better. In that case I agree.

Unfortunately, that doesn't say much at all. See my point again, re: Improvement. His average level this clay season (which is higher than the level he displayed against Ferrer) isn't that far below what he displayed tonight until the final set, and that's NOT good.

I don't know why Rafa fans are the only fans in the world who are so sensitive about someone being critical of Nadal's game, especially when that someone is a Nadal fan himself. I talked about this back at Indian Wells, and was accused (not by you) of being too negative. I talked about it in Miami, and I was assured that Nadal was serving well and playing great because he crushed a bunch of overmatched opponents. Maybe I, like anyone who was watching his game closely, was on to something?

No, I don't mind you being critical, because you're objective, and in general I agree: he's been off his game since Flushing Meadows, and I believe that's understandable, given how driven he was after Wimbledon. And he's not playing his best here, obviously, if he's having to go deep in the third against Andy, and dropping sets against Simon and Youzhney.

But by the same token, he's definitely upped his level since MC. And he looks more engaged with the task now, than he did in Miami, or MC. He looks like he's waking up. We've seen it before, his level looks shy even in Paris. Forget even about last year, where he was dodgy for four rounds: Remember 2010, when you and I were a little concerned about his level before the Soderling final, and then he won that with a great display?

I think he may not win Rome, because I think he's working too hard out there, but it's been a much more encouraging event than Madrid, and Madrid was even better than MC...

Well yeah, he's played better in some stretches this tournament (though you could have said the same after the Berdych match in Madrid, and Rafa has yet to match the level he displayed in that match). But the problem is the improvement is still minute compared to where his level needs to be at this stage of the clay court season.

So if he reaches the final and loses to Novak, that's a HUGE problem given that he's already admitted to struggling with confidence. That's why I can't be encouraged at all by this slight improvement, as it's really nowhere near enough. Let's face it, we know what the real goal is (RG), and we know who he has to beat to win that tournament. He's not beating him playing like this, we'll both agree.

Oh, I agree, but his level now is rarely the same as the second week in Paris. He knows what he has to do to get there. At least now he doesn't look as abject as he did for the last couple of months, where there was even speculation about darling Xisca. :heart:

Nice to see her there tonight, her eyes like cherubs eyes... :heart:

 

[the AntiPusher]

Eh, did you see the first set? .... uzzled

Nope. but I did see the 2nd and 3rd! What's your point.. its how you finish not how you begin

All the hard work was for nothing.

I would get banned for what I would really like to say to you. I hope Iona empty her "Trash can" on your absolutely thoughtless post. This comes from a person who admires Soderling as a tennis player. Nuff Said!:laydownlaughing

Seems like you're contradicting yourself...

I dont get your post

Well, as you said: its about how you do at the end. Murray totally imploded at the end. So fronts criticism is more than fair, and actually is in line with that point. Still you are trashtalking him. I dont get it.

Rafa ran his legs into the dirt\clay.. Murray gave it everything he had.. Just like a boxer in the ring against an opponent, Rafa took his legs

 

[brokenshoelace]

Broken, compare Rafa v Ferrer in MC and Rafa in the last two sets tonight, and the last two sets last night, and tell me there's no improvement. There's a huge improvement. And it isn't just "being competitve" because that's no use if your shots are landing on the service line like timid rabbits, like they were against Daveed.

If he played like this in MC, he'd have won that QF and maybe he takes the title. His intensity is up, he served very well in parts tonight, and after a wayward ( :snigger ) opening set, he grew in energy levels and intensity. He's much improved tonight, even on last night, especially if we take into account his lethargic start...

Ah, OK. So compared to his worst clay court career performance, a match in which he made 44 unforced errors in two sets, he played better. In that case I agree.

Unfortunately, that doesn't say much at all. See my point again, re: Improvement. His average level this clay season (which is higher than the level he displayed against Ferrer) isn't that far below what he displayed tonight until the final set, and that's NOT good.

I don't know why Rafa fans are the only fans in the world who are so sensitive about someone being critical of Nadal's game, especially when that someone is a Nadal fan himself. I talked about this back at Indian Wells, and was accused (not by you) of being too negative. I talked about it in Miami, and I was assured that Nadal was serving well and playing great because he crushed a bunch of overmatched opponents. Maybe I, like anyone who was watching his game closely, was on to something?

No, I don't mind you being critical, because you're objective, and in general I agree: he's been off his game since Flushing Meadows, and I believe that's understandable, given how driven he was after Wimbledon. And he's not playing his best here, obviously, if he's having to go deep in the third against Andy, and dropping sets against Simon and Youzhney.

But by the same token, he's definitely upped his level since MC. And he looks more engaged with the task now, than he did in Miami, or MC. He looks like he's waking up. We've seen it before, his level looks shy even in Paris. Forget even about last year, where he was dodgy for four rounds: Remember 2010, when you and I were a little concerned about his level before the Soderling final, and then he won that with a great display?

I think he may not win Rome, because I think he's working too hard out there, but it's been a much more encouraging event than Madrid, and Madrid was even better than MC...

Well yeah, he's played better in some stretches this tournament (though you could have said the same after the Berdych match in Madrid, and Rafa has yet to match the level he displayed in that match). But the problem is the improvement is still minute compared to where his level needs to be at this stage of the clay court season.

So if he reaches the final and loses to Novak, that's a HUGE problem given that he's already admitted to struggling with confidence. That's why I can't be encouraged at all by this slight improvement, as it's really nowhere near enough. Let's face it, we know what the real goal is (RG), and we know who he has to beat to win that tournament. He's not beating him playing like this, we'll both agree.

Oh, I agree, but his level now is rarely the same as the second week in Paris. He knows what he has to do to get there. At least now he doesn't look as abject as he did for the last couple of months, where there was even speculation about darling Xisca. :heart:

Nice to see her there tonight, her eyes like cherubs eyes... :heart:

Jim Courrier approves of your post.

 

[Kieran]

Yeah, old Jim made an eejit of himself in Oz over Xisca... :cover

 

[Front242]

All the hard work was for nothing.

How? He fought hard and played well, and his level has improved. It's a step forward for both players...

How? Because if you're gonna have a melt down like that at the end, the most important part of the match, what's the point. He played great against Novak here in 2011 too and also lost. He was up a break in the 3rd set today and should've capitalized on the weakest version of Nadal he's played on clay to date.

 

[britbox]

Both players live for matches like this
.. it could light a fire under both of them going forward.

 

[Kieran]

What meltdown? Rafa played very strong at the end and Andy wore out. He didn't melt down. The guy moved along nicely from his recent matches on clay...

 

[Front242]

^ Yeah right.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The only "meltdown" from Andy was that double fault at break point, but he was down 0-40 anyway. Not saying he was perfect late, but I don't think "meltdown" is what I would use to describe what happened. I think Nadal upped his game, had more intensity and was more physically ready. There's a reason he keeps winning these sort of matches and non-Nadal fans keep talking about his opponents "melting down"...

 

[Kieran]

^ Yeah right.

You're only wishing too hard that Rafa would lose. I told you after the first set ended that Rafa would win...

 

[nehmeth]

On clay, if someone is gong to beat Rafa in three, chances are it will come down to a Serbian ex-pat living in Monaco. Nishikori might have gotten him, but his body gave out. Andy, whether from fatigue, rust, or lost resolve, definitely flagged as Rafa upped his game at the end.

 

[Iona16]

Man, Sky Sports are so annoyingly biased towards Murray. Certainly appreciate of Nadal, but they're clearly going for Andy.

You haven't experienced the BBC during Wimbledon yet then.... :snigger

Eh I should blooming think so. I've always found Sky Sports and the BBC fair when it comes to Andy's opponents. I pay a licence to watch the BBC so I'd expect them to be behind the British no. 1. Same with the subscription to Sky Sports. They had better be behind Andy.

Still gutted about the result. I'm off to bed to sulk.

 

[Front242]

^ Yeah right.

You're only wishing too hard that Rafa would lose. I told you after the first set ended that Rafa would win...

I'm no fan of either guy but simply saying it as it is as a neutral fan, Murray folded like a cheap tent at the end. He was up 4-2 and running away with it, Nadal got back on level terms but towards the very end Murray's level really dropped and his game deserted him. Hence why I said it was all for nothing. Obviously it's good to win a set against Nadal on clay, better still 6-1 but if you ultimately lose the match 'cos of your own stupid tennis at the end it was clearly all for nothing.

 

[Kieran]

Federer fans are never neutral when Rafa plays, and we know that you sure as monkeys aren't!