Indian Wells, BNP Paribas Open, Masters 1000

[El Dude]

not sure why you keep Zverev in that list. Has he made a slam quarter final yet? I mean seriously... at what point does that start to matter? If you're talking winning more Masters then maybe..

Simply because I think he'll get over the hurdle and do better at Slams. He's too good not to. The discrepancy between his Masters and Slam performances is rather unusual, I think, at least in someone so young. There are guys like Davydenko or Rios who had strong records at Masters but never did much at Slams, but very few young players. Actually, the one that comes to mind is Lendl: he was possibly the best player off Slams in the early 80s and didn't win his first Slam until he was 24. Maybe Zverev is taking a similar route.

 

[Federberg]

I was thinking of similarities between Thiem and Wawrinka, superficially, at least, (very strong guys, one-handers, best on clay,) and wondering how poorly Stan has done v. Roger, including just the other day, and yet Thiem just got him on hard courts (finally.) Any insights?

you have to think that Stan is carrying a heck of a lot of mental baggage with him. Besides he beat him in all but name at the ATP semis in 14

 

[mrzz]

I was thinking of similarities between Thiem and Wawrinka, superficially, at least, (very strong guys, one-handers, best on clay,) and wondering how poorly Stan has done v. Roger, including just the other day, and yet Thiem just got him on hard courts (finally.) Any insights?

Wawrinka's form oscillates much more wildly than Thiem's. Not every day is Stanimal's day. Also, Thiem moves much, much, much better than Wawrinka, and hits with a bit more top spin. In the FH side, with way more top spin, in fact. I guess those two factors are the central ones to explain the difference against Federer (not to mention what Federberg just put).

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Stan's got Roger again in Miami. Not nice.

 

[DarthFed]

I was thinking of similarities between Thiem and Wawrinka, superficially, at least, (very strong guys, one-handers, best on clay,) and wondering how poorly Stan has done v. Roger, including just the other day, and yet Thiem just got him on hard courts (finally.) Any insights?

Small sample size. Stan of now vs pre-injury is still far off the pace. But certainly Roger after 2018 AO is consistently at a weaker level than anything we've seen aside from 2013. I guess it is to be expected but it's a factor. Most of Stan's damage from Roger was 2017 and before.

 

[tented]

you have to think that Stan is carrying a heck of a lot of mental baggage with him. Besides he beat him in all but name at the ATP semis in 14

A day which will live in infamy.

 

[Fiero425]

A day which will live in infamy.

That has to be hard to forget and forgive regardless of their friendship! Not sure I could have gone thru with DC comp. the following week! I guess I must be rather small, but friends don't treat each other like that! Protect your wife if you like, but don't justify it by pointing out other players' infractions against yourself! It's one of the reasons I get ticked off with people making out Roger's this living saint or GOD! He can get as obnoxious as any player, once heard giving the "do you know who I am" admonishment to an umpire years ago! His challenges bother me too; esp. when the ball's more than a foot out! It's like "I hit the ball and it must have fallen in for me!" He's hitting Jimmy Connors territory with just being more an annoyance than really being competitive! These losses with MP's or opportunities to close out matches is happening a lot more frequently of late! That's not unexpected, but he's not seeing it yet I guess!

 

[DarthFed]

That has to be hard to forget and forgive regardless of their friendship! Not sure I could have gone thru with DC comp. the following week! I guess I must be rather small, but friends don't treat each other like that! Protect your wife if you like, but don't justify it by pointing out other players' infractions against yourself! It's one of the reasons I get ticked off with people making out Roger's this living saint or GOD! He can get as obnoxious as any player, once heard giving the "do you know who I am" admonishment to an umpire years ago! His challenges bother me too; esp. when the ball's more than a foot out! It's like "I hit the ball and it must have fallen in for me!" He's hitting Jimmy Connors territory with just being more an annoyance than really being competitive! These losses with MP's or opportunities to close out matches is happening a lot more frequently of late! That's not unexpected, but he's not seeing it yet I guess!

Did you expect Roger was going to take Stan's side in a battle vs Mirka? Come on, let's not be ridiculous.

 

[Ricardo]

That has to be hard to forget and forgive regardless of their friendship! Not sure I could have gone thru with DC comp. the following week! I guess I must be rather small, but friends don't treat each other like that! Protect your wife if you like, but don't justify it by pointing out other players' infractions against yourself! It's one of the reasons I get ticked off with people making out Roger's this living saint or GOD! He can get as obnoxious as any player, once heard giving the "do you know who I am" admonishment to an umpire years ago! His challenges bother me too; esp. when the ball's more than a foot out! It's like "I hit the ball and it must have fallen in for me!" He's hitting Jimmy Connors territory with just being more an annoyance than really being competitive! These losses with MP's or opportunities to close out matches is happening a lot more frequently of late! That's not unexpected, but he's not seeing it yet I guess!

Agreed you are small, probably very. Now I have not seen any evidence that Fed defended Mirka over the incident, one cannot deny the possibility that Roger may well have offered an apology to Stan and promised that Mirka would not provoke during a match again (so far she hasn’t done it again) .......you don’t just write a narrative and make it up about Rogers justifying it.

 

[Ricardo]

Did you expect Roger was going to take Stan's side in a battle vs Mirka? Come on, let's not be ridiculous.

He might have even, but we don’t know.....Mirka was wrong, let’s not forget that.

 

[Moxie]

you have to think that Stan is carrying a heck of a lot of mental baggage with him. Besides he beat him in all but name at the ATP semis in 14

Agreed, but I always think that he'd have gotten beyond that. Guess not.

Wawrinka's form oscillates much more wildly than Thiem's. Not every day is Stanimal's day. Also, Thiem moves much, much, much better than Wawrinka, and hits with a bit more top spin. In the FH side, with way more top spin, in fact. I guess those two factors are the central ones to explain the difference against Federer (not to mention what Federberg just put).

Good point about his inconsistency. I did think about Thiem being a better mover. Thanks for the intel about spin, esp. on FH side.

Small sample size. Stan of now vs pre-injury is still far off the pace. But certainly Roger after 2018 AO is consistently at a weaker level than anything we've seen aside from 2013. I guess it is to be expected but it's a factor. Most of Stan's damage from Roger was 2017 and before.

I did think Wawrinka had improved a lot since his surgery, of late, and Roger's is level is down, as you say. Thanks for the replies, guys. Helpful.

 

[DarthFed]

He might have even, but we don’t know.....Mirka was wrong, let’s not forget that.

She was definitely in the wrong and Roger knows that. But there is a difference between Roger agreeing that she was wrong and taking Stan's side in that context. We know things got heated in the locker room and it's safe to say Stan wasn't just saying "Mirka wasn't nice to me Roger". We don't know what was said but im sure Stan was using choice language in regards to Mirka and I don't blame him.

 

[Moxie]

She was definitely in the wrong and Roger knows that. But there is a difference between Roger agreeing that she was wrong and taking Stan's side in that context. We know things got heated in the locker room and it's safe to say Stan wasn't just saying "Mirka wasn't nice to me Roger". We don't know what was said but im sure Stan was using choice language in regards to Mirka and I don't blame him.

Stan was complaining that he was mouthing off when he was serving near the players box, and that she'd done it at the previous Wimbledon. Competitive people can get irritated with each other. They've both said they put it behind them, and won DC. As was pointed out, she's never done it again. If they can get over it, I'm sure we can.

 

[DarthFed]

Stan was complaining that he was mouthing off when he was serving near the players box, and that she'd done it at the previous Wimbledon. Competitive people can get irritated with each other. They've both said they put it behind them, and won DC. As was pointed out, she's never done it again. If they can get over it, I'm sure we can.

Yeah but the point is I'm sure it wasn't just Stan calmly airing his grievances as they were apparently close to blows with Roger being more heated. Yes I'm sure Stan used the B or C word. I would have

 

[Moxie]

Yeah but the point is I'm sure it wasn't just Stan calmly airing his grievances as they were apparently close to blows with Roger being more heated. Yes I'm sure Stan used the B or C word. I would have

IIRC, some of the anger was about Roger fighting so hard to beat him that he risked his back and the DC title, too. Look, I'm sure it got ugly. They both had a lot on the line, at that point. The YEC, which they were fighting each other for, and the DC, which they both wanted for Switzerland. If Stan had some ugly things to say about Mirka in the locker room, and, like you, I suspect he did, sure Roger would have been angry. Stan had to be separated from Kyrgios when he learned what Nick said about his GF on court in another infamous match. But Stan and Roger had, in the moment, and in general, more reasons to kiss and make up.

 

[Ricardo]

Yeah but the point is I'm sure it wasn't just Stan calmly airing his grievances as they were apparently close to blows with Roger being more heated. Yes I'm sure Stan used the B or C word. I would have

Baseless, how can you be sure they were close to blows? Also show me where Stan said the B/C word. This is funny, quite a few posters here tend to say they are SURE of something when it’s just speculation......like el dude, call it wheelchair fan syndrome?

 

[Ricardo]

She was definitely in the wrong and Roger knows that. But there is a difference between Roger agreeing that she was wrong and taking Stan's side in that context. We know things got heated in the locker room and it's safe to say Stan wasn't just saying "Mirka wasn't nice to me Roger". We don't know what was said but im sure Stan was using choice language in regards to Mirka and I don't blame him.

What is taking Stan’s side? If he agreed that Mirka was wrong, offered apology and promised Stan that she wouldn’t do it again, seems the right thing to do imo, is that taking Stan’s side? What do you mean by taking Stan’s side?

 

[El Dude]

Baseless, how can you be sure they were close to blows? Also show me where Stan said the B/C word. This is funny, quite a few posters here tend to say they are SURE of something when it’s just speculation......like el dude, call it wheelchair fan syndrome?

What do I say that I am "sure" of, Ricardo? Nothing. I am always very clear that my speculations are just that, that my rankings are just my own opinions. I can't tell if you willfully misinterpret me or if you are just that thick-skulled. Call it Arrogant Dumbass Syndrome.

 

[DarthFed]

Baseless, how can you be sure they were close to blows? Also show me where Stan said the B/C word. This is funny, quite a few posters here tend to say they are SURE of something when it’s just speculation......like el dude, call it wheelchair fan syndrome?

Many articles state that it was a long heated argument and they even got forced into a separate room by tournament officials. Yes, I'm speculating that Stan was saying some not so nice things about Mirka. It's a fucking message board and speculation is part of it.

Are we really supposed to think Stan just went up whining to Roger and just told him that Mirka isn't being nice? If that was the case I highly doubt things would get so heated. Or was it more like "Roger, how about you control your bitch. She's fucking with me even right as I'm serving". What's more likely to cause a long and heated argument, one in which Roger was apparently more assertive.

 

[DarthFed]

What is taking Stan’s side? If he agreed that Mirka was wrong, offered apology and promised Stan that she wouldn’t do it again, seems the right thing to do imo, is that taking Stan’s side? What do you mean by taking Stan’s side?

It's quite simple. He could agree Mirka was in the wrong but still "defend her honor" if Stan was saying some not so nice things after the match (speculation I know). Remember I was initially replying to Fiero who found it annoying that Roger would defend Mirka after the match.