I’m teasing you brother, that 6+3 is better than 0+0, right?On this site and others, Novak haters kvetch about him making so many USO finals, but having only 3 titles! He's just been unlucky w/ injury, a Disq., then stress of trying to complete his CYGS! He was even on a list of underachieving b/c of it! He at least has 3, unlike BORG w/ none! His 6?
But this is the point, we can’t assume that Novak would have been #1 again at all. It’s like if I said, “we can assume that Rafa would have been #1 again if he’d been fully fit at Wimbledon and the rest of the season too.”
I’m teasing you brother, that 6+3 is better than 0+0, right?
I just find the notion that Novak was somehow a victim last year of his choices absurd. Rafa is a better prospect at the USO and he similarly made a choice in 2020…
Six seconds on Google told him no. Then a fraction of the money he spent on a flotilla of Johnny Cochranes would have also told him no if he’d asked them first.Well he was definitely victimized "down under!" Of the 3 governing bodies, someone told him to "fly over babe! We gotcha covered!"
What a load of BS LOL!.....Kieean was correct in saying...he lied and cheated....Cheats Never Prosper btw.Well he was definitely victimized "down under!" Of the 3 governing bodies, someone told him to "fly over babe! We gotcha covered!"
He outperformed the next best guy by +100 Elo. Novak was, by a solid margin, the best pound-for-pound player in 2022. He played half of all Slams and Masters, 2 and 3 fewer than Alcaraz and 11 tournaments to Alcaraz's 17. You don't think that Novak playing the AO, the USO and even just two more Masters would have made up the 2000 point difference in the ATP rankings? He wouldn't even had to win one of the Slams - just go deep and maybe win another Masters. Or two Slam SFs (720 each) and one Masters final (600) gets him past Alcaraz.
Honestly we can. No one was saying he'd have won the events he wasn't allowed play due to unscientific bs but the amount of points he lost was massive and he'd definitely have still been number 1 if not for that. Again though, Alcaraz is indeed very good but no way would he have taken over number one otherwise.
And there’s me thinking ELO was a band. Other than that, I don’t know what it stands for. I don’t measure year end rankings that way, and neither did the tour. And yes, Novak chose not to get vaccinated. He was put in that position and he chose. Not only that, he then tried to lie and cheat his way into Australia. Rafa chose in 2020 not to go to the US, but we didn’t have discussions like this one about it.
So you begin by saying [1] then contradict it by saying [2].
Well straight away he lost 2000 points for the AO and 1200 for the USO final. That's 3200 which is already massive and that's before any of the US hard court masters which I'm not in the mood for looking up but maybe El Dude or someone else has already posted the total of points he was unable to defend but it was huge. There's not much that's hard to understand for the 2 slam points losses alone which would already be more than enough to drop multiple rankings.
I was going to try to extract the Covid vaccine talk and bring it to the other thread, for the sake of the Admins and their time over the holidays, in particular, but it's a lost cause. We've not also got rankings talk, Djokovic's Covid legal woes and all kinds of stuff mixed it. Going back to the OP, I see it's kind of a fannish thread, anyway, and has been talked out for what it was ever worth, IMO. Hopefully, @kskate2 and @tented will just let us battle it all out here, since it's the end of the year, anyway, and we may as well keep it to one thread??
I'm getting well-tired of everyone misusing the term "woke." Wimbledon's position as to excluding Russian and Belarusian players is not about "woke-ness" or even political correctness, (they are not the same thing.) It was politics, pure and simple. The UK government pressured the tournament. That's about policy towards Putin and Russia.
Well it's about tennis not covid so there's no need to move it. Covid and the moronic decisions globally impacted tennis and the number 1 player in the world. It was a huge deal. Before any of the visa issues/messed up paperwork etc, he was advised he could play there and then they messed him around along with his own mess but if it wasn't for the unscientific bs (they don't stop transmission) then none of this would have mattered and he should always have been allowed play based on that. They didn't even test vaxxed players giving everyone covid at many tournaments this year and anywhere full stop despite tons of factual data showing vaxxed people were super spreaders. The whole thing reeked and he was massively screwed over but I very much admire him for his principles and not jeopardizing his health. Rafa doesn't run like a maniac as much these days but he used to. Tons of videos online back that up and this will of course put more wear and tear on the joints. It actually ISN'T my opinion, it's a FACT those vaccines are utterly useless and the mandate regarding sports was cluelessly unscientific. They should have let everybody play and test everybody daily even though the PCR tests are beyond pathetic but at least everyone could and indeed should have been allowed play then. And you can continue to be tired of everyone using the term woke and this is not being misused here. Society is a woke, corrupt mess right now. It was a joke to ban players from Belarus and Russia seeing as they never banned their own players or US players when they blew the shit out of Iraq and many other countries. Many of the same people who are happy to take 52 boosters have a Ukrainian flag in their front window or as their avatar. It's no coincidence. Oh and in Pfizer we trust. Yeah right.I was going to try to extract the Covid vaccine talk and bring it to the other thread, for the sake of the Admins and their time over the holidays, in particular, but it's a lost cause. We've not also got rankings talk, Djokovic's Covid legal woes and all kinds of stuff mixed it. Going back to the OP, I see it's kind of a fannish thread, anyway, and has been talked out for what it was ever worth, IMO. Hopefully, @kskate2 and @tented will just let us battle it all out here, since it's the end of the year, anyway, and we may as well keep it to one thread??
That caveat applied, Front, you and others love to blame Rafa for his injuries. Nadal doesn't "run like a maniac." He runs like a tennis player, and a very competitive and talented one, at that. Plenty of players can be the human backboard, including Novak. Injuries have to do with physical make-up, too. You blame Rafa for his injuries, but you refuse to give personal responsibility to Novak for a choice that he had control over. It's not just your opinion about Covid and the vaccination that matters. State governments made their own decisions. Tennis players (and others) can choose to conform, or to stay away. It IS/was a choice, and even Novak finally copped to that, (though not initially.)
I'm getting well-tired of everyone misusing the term "woke." Wimbledon's position as to excluding Russian and Belarusian players is not about "woke-ness" or even political correctness, (they are not the same thing.) It was politics, pure and simple. The UK government pressured the tournament. That's about policy towards Putin and Russia.
And to that point, and while it serves me not at all to say this, it should be remembered that Novak won Wimbledon and got no points for it.
To be clear, this is your opinion about those policies, and the science, vis-a-vis Covid. As to Wimbledon, I think most around here agree that the choice to keep Russians out was useless and an over-step. The ATP/WTA decision to withdraw points was an effort by players' councils to force Wimbledon's hand...and it didn't work. We have all said, I think, that it was a weird year for rankings, for many reasons.
First of all, I think you make this argument in your own favor. We didn't say "if only Rafa were healthy...." We're saying that no one makes provisions for alternate realities when Rafa has been absent due to injury. Read back. This is what Kieran is arguing, and @rafanoy1992 has pointed out in the past. Trying to put an asterisk (I know you didn't say that) presumes a lot on Novak's performance, had he played a full schedule.
Again, this is your opinion, and it is your choice to state it so dramatically. (Jab in the arm v. bullet to the head? Seriously?) The rules of admission were established. You may not agree with them, but that is a separate issue. Everyone else (nearly) conformed to the rules. Disagreeing with the rules doesn't change them. It's still a choice, whereas injury is not.
I'll let El Dude reply to this himself obviously but, regarding the bolded, no matter how many times you keep trying to tell people claiming faulty science or unscientific bs as I called it that this is our opinions, it's NOT our opinions, it's FACTUAL. The media said people like me would be dead. Well, guess what, I'm not....
They start the season on zero points. I know they also defend last seasons points but in the race to be number one, they start the season on zero. I’m surprised at all the speculation about what coulda - we tend to frown on that stuff around here when it gets applied to other players…
For the race to the WTF, yes, but then why all the articles saying Djokovic would be unable to defend his points unless that's more mainstream media lies ?!
Sorry I have to interrupt your run-on sentences. As I have said before, your opinion about Covid and the vaccine for it don't really matter. Public health policies are and were what they are and were. And we are not privy to what Novak was told and by whom before he went to Australia this past January, but as @Kieran points out, a simple google search could have told him he was in the wrong on his supposed "medical exemption." He clearly has access to lawyers, but he chose to go on a wing and likely corrupt prayer, that he'd just be let in because he was Novak. Even you have said that's no way to treat world #1, but why should he be treated differently? In the end, he wasn't.
That's fine, if it's what you believe. But if you're going to back his choice, then you have to understand it comes with consequences, as he seems to, now.
This is a nonsensical point. Tennis players run a lot...side-to-side, back-to-front, in a stop/start motion that is perilous to joints and ligaments. Sure, Rafa has put a lot of miles on, but blaming his playing style for his injuries is not for you to say. You're no sports medicine doctor. Plus, how much has Juan Martin del Potro been blamed for his own injury woes? No, everyone just feels sorry for him. Why? Because he's no longer a threat to anyone's legacy.
Again...you say they should have tested, and then you declare tests useless. You've contradicted yourself. You're sure of your version of the science but I am not.
This is just a word and gripe salad. Now you're conflating support for Ukraine with faith in boosters? Does that mean that I should assume that you're all-in on Putin because you're against the Covid vaccine? The world is not that binary in its opinions. I think you need to get a grip.
Well, YE #1 is one thing, and #1 based on rolling points is another, right? But still, as you say, we don't normally trade a lot in the "woulda/couldas" around here, or you get sneered at. Surely this year was odd, but mainly only because of Djokovic and his choices. If you take that out, only Wimbledon was an anomaly. Yes, Novak is the elephant in the room, but to pretend we know what he "woulda" done is a bit breaking the rules.
