General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[the AntiPusher]

You are catching on the straws here. Novak did not break the rules, he could give the samples before or after the match, those are the rules, despite what this cyclist is saying.

Read Kieran post earlier..the time lapse between when the sample was requested and when he later provided his sample afterwards may alter the results..IDK

 

[don_fabio]

Read Kieran post earlier..the time lapse between when the sample was requested and when he later provided his sample afterwards may alter the results..IDK

I don't think it's relevant for the rules of tennis. Novak was within rules when he chose the test after the match.

Speaking of these substances that could flush from the body in a matter of hours, then all tennis players could be doping knowing when they test after the match, they would be clean. I don't think majority of the players would be willing to risk that and I don't see Novak willing to put that stuff in his body.

 

[Kieran]

You are catching on the straws here. Novak did not break the rules, he could give the samples before or after the match, those are the rules, despite what this cyclist is saying.

I think the complaint is that he refused to take it when requested and delayed it to until after the match, when some short term drugs may no longer be detectable. I think this story may grow, given his previous attacks on dope testers in his foolish defence of Triocki, and the suggestions that his bottles might contain something that he isn’t being transparent about…

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I don't think it's relevant for the rules of tennis. Novak was within rules when he chose the test after the match.

Speaking of these substances that could flush from the body in a matter of hours, then all tennis players could be doping knowing when they test after the match, they would be clean. I don't think majority of the players would be willing to risk that and I don't see Novak willing to put that stuff in his body.

Yes all players could be doping with the same strategy but somehow only Djokovic is unbeatable despite being a grandpa in the Top 10. Makes sense.

 

[don_fabio]

I think the complaint is that he refused to take it when requested and delayed it to until after the match, when some short term drugs may no longer be detectable.

In such case any player could be suspicious. Who knows how many of them choose a test after the match, but I don't see their names in the news.

I think this story may grow, given his previous attacks on dope testers in his foolish defence of Triocki, and the suggestions that his bottles might contain something that he isn’t being transparent about…

Maybe there is a story. They might look into when they test the players and make it more rigorous and possibly without player's choices, but then they would need to change the rules, as for now players choose when they want a test.

Why Novak's test refusal even made the news if it is within the rules?

 

[Kieran]

In such case any player could be suspicious. Who knows how many of them choose a test after the match, but I don't see their names in the news.

If they refused a test, that’s true. And I’d be ecumenical in this regard, if it was Rafa.

Maybe there is a story. They might look into when they test the players and make it more rigorous and possibly without player's choices, but then they would need to change the rules, as for now players choose when they want a test.

I think so. A player should never be angry at dope testers. They should be happy to comply and show they have nothing to hide.

Why Novak's test refusal even made the news if it is within the rules?

I think because he refused, even if it’s within the rules. There’s something about how Novak protests his innocence. It’s always extremely aggressive and self-pitying, never showing understanding for the other side of the situation, as if he thinks being loud about it somehow makes his complaints more credible.

It’s not only the lady doth protest too much, the shady doth protest too much, also!

 

[don_fabio]

I think because he refused, even if it’s within the rules. There’s something about how Novak protests his innocence. It’s always extremely aggressive and self-pitying, never showing understanding for the other side of the situation, as if he thinks being loud about it somehow makes his complaints more credible.

The whole reason why Novak had to refuse a test is because the guy came too late. Novak said it right after, that in his 20 year career he never had a test guy coming 1 hour before the match. I assume if the test is done before the match it has to be a few hours before at least, so why there should be understanding from Novak's side if the guy was late.

You and I both know there are other events when he was guilty as charged, but I just feel that Novak is not wrong in this one.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The whole reason why Novak had to refuse a test is because the guy came too late. Novak said it right after, that in his 20 year career he never had a test guy coming 1 hour before the match. I assume if the test is done before the match it has to be a few hours before at least, so why there should be understanding from Novak's side if the guy was late.

You and I both know there are other events when he was guilty as charged, but I just feel that Novak is not wrong in this one.

An hour before the match... interesting

 

[atttomole]

Who is suspected of taking PEDs?

 

[Kieran]

The whole reason why Novak had to refuse a test is because the guy came too late. Novak said it right after, that in his 20 year career he never had a test guy coming 1 hour before the match. I assume if the test is done before the match it has to be a few hours before at least, so why there should be understanding from Novak's side if the guy was late.

You and I both know there are other events when he was guilty as charged, but I just feel that Novak is not wrong in this one.

I think it was 90 minutes before, and Novak refused because he was going through his preparations for the match? The ITIA say he had to comply as soon as it was possible for him to, but it’s his refusal then his complains about the drug testers which is newsworthy, given that they provide a necessary service to the sport.

It’s true though, you have been the most critical of him among Novak fans for his most egregious actions through the last few years. I’m trying to remember what you said about people from that region, from your experience, who think everyone is against them and would do anything to succeed? Something like that. It certainly applies to Novak, whatever it was…

 

[don_fabio]

I’m trying to remember what you said about people from that region, from your experience, who think everyone is against them and would do anything to succeed? Something like that. It certainly applies to Novak, whatever it was…

When Novak shows his bad side, that's a "Balkanac" in him saying: You can't get rid of me. I'll always be here no matter how hard you try. I'm part of your DNA man.

 

[Kieran]

When Novak shows his bad side, that's a "Balkanac" in him saying: You can't get rid of me. I'll always be here no matter how hard you try. I'm part of your DNA man.

Yeah, that’s it, more fully here in the post:

Novak is famous for all that he has achieved, but he has this what we call "balkan mentality" (refering to the area he comes from) in him and it never went away, despite all the years spent abroad and him trying to act nice and all. It always comes out on the surface. It's rooted in him deeply due to all reasons that I mentioned above. There is always me/us against the world in the balkans, we are fighting for our cause whatever others might say. I might also cheat and break some rules to gain advantage. We also have a saying you play by the book, you be a good guy and then you eat a shit.

 

[Moxie]

The whole reason why Novak had to refuse a test is because the guy came too late. Novak said it right after, that in his 20 year career he never had a test guy coming 1 hour before the match. I assume if the test is done before the match it has to be a few hours before at least, so why there should be understanding from Novak's side if the guy was late.

You and I both know there are other events when he was guilty as charged, but I just feel that Novak is not wrong in this one.

As @Kieran says, it was 90 minutes before the match, not 60 minutes, but it's reasonable to assume that was within his "match prep" time. The tester wasn't "late." I've been looking into the rules, (which are not easy to discern,) and there are a couple of things, and some vagaries. There is no requirement to advise ahead of time that there will be a test. In fact, the rules state that, except in extraordinary circumstances, the player will not be advised ahead of time. There are subject to testing from the day before the "event" begins, and until it ends, in the case of a team event, which this was.

What Novak objected to, it seems, was the close proximity to the start of the match. And if Novak acted angrily, well, he is #1. The rules are clear on refusing a test, but not on putting one off until after the match. It also says that the player, with good reason, may put off a test. It could be deemed that he had good reason.

Now, we know that doping methods change, and often ahead of the rules, so, if it is true that banned substances can deteriorate in the body during the match, then the rules should be changed. Not saying that Novak is guilty of anything, just discussing what's on the table right now.

 

[Moxie]

When Novak shows his bad side, that's a "Balkanac" in him saying: You can't get rid of me. I'll always be here no matter how hard you try. I'm part of your DNA man.

We do not want to get rid of you!

Yeah, that’s it, more fully here in the post:

I remember that post, too, and it was illuminating. I can understand a Balkan attitude of "us against the world." Also, of the notion that, if you comply with the rules, you're a sucker. That's called "cynicism," and is not unique to the Balkans. I was thinking of my years living in Italy. (Close your ears, Margaret!) When a system is corrupt, (in Italy, most especially but not exclusively by the Mafia,) and rules/laws are routinely bent/broken, perfectly normal people think nothing of operating outside of the system. This could be an old notion of Italy, but not from the very distant past, and I think it still holds. I have no idea if the systems in the Balkans feel "corrupt" to their citizens, but I recognize the notion of "good guys finish last." (And not to absolve my own people: NYers and New Jerseyians are cynical for similar reasons, as are Louisianans, to name a few.)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

We do not want to get rid of you!

I remember that post, too, and it was illuminating. I can understand a Balkan attitude of "us against the world." Also, of the notion that, if you comply with the rules, you're a sucker. That's called "cynicism," and is not unique to the Balkans. I was thinking of my years living in Italy. (Close your ears, Margaret!) When a system is corrupt, (in Italy, most especially but not exclusively by the Mafia,) and rules/laws are routinely bent/broken, perfectly normal people think nothing of operating outside of the system. This could be an old notion of Italy, but not from the very distant past, and I think it still holds. I have no idea if the systems in the Balkans feel "corrupt" to their citizens, but I recognize the notion of "good guys finish last." (And not to absolve my own people: NYers and New Jerseyians are cynical for similar reasons, as are Louisianans, to name a few.)

Hey I was born in Sicily nothing surprises me

 

[Moxie]

I read the other day source Tennis Majors, that Djokovic reportedly is set to launch 'New Sports Hydrating" drink in 2024 while playing in Australia, as yet there hasnt been a confirmed date.Novak is starting up a new business consisting of a lot of Wellness Products.

Here's my question about this "New Sports Hydrating" drink: if it's shelf-stable enough to sell to the general market, why does his team need to mix it for him in the moment? Why can't he just have 3 or 4 in the bag, at the ready? Are they just inept at preparation? And why so much secrecy? I get protecting intellectual property, but it's not like the packets they pour in are labeled "protein powder," "turmeric," and (say) "ground horn of unicorn," in big letters. Even if it has human growth hormone in it, whose to detect that from the sidelines?

And what ever happened to the huffing into the bottle? Did it go the way of the magnet on the chest? He did promise to illuminate us on all of this, and we're still waiting.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Here's my question about this "New Sports Hydrating" drink: if it's shelf-stable enough to sell to the general market, why does his team need to mix it for him in the moment? Why can't he just have 3 or 4 in the bag, at the ready? Are they just inept at preparation? And why so much secrecy? I get protecting intellectual property, but it's not like the packets they pour in are labeled "protein powder," "turmeric," and (say) "ground horn of unicorn," in big letters. Even if it has human growth hormone in it, whose to detect that from the sidelines?

And what ever happened to the huffing into the bottle? Did it go the way of the magnet on the chest? He did promise to illuminate us on all of this, and we're still waiting.

Agree the sports drink etc was to be in a documentary we are still waiting for? my questions are, is it the same ingredients that he has his team mix for him,? or a different mixture all together., I have a feeling it is a different mixture, which he wont disclose, lets see how the promotion goes during the Australian Open and his other Wellness products, whatever they are.

 

[the AntiPusher]

As @Kieran says, it was 90 minutes before the match, not 60 minutes, but it's reasonable to assume that was within his "match prep" time. The tester wasn't "late." I've been looking into the rules, (which are not easy to discern,) and there are a couple of things, and some vagaries. There is no requirement to advise ahead of time that there will be a test. In fact, the rules state that, except in extraordinary circumstances, the player will not be advised ahead of time. There are subject to testing from the day before the "event" begins, and until it ends, in the case of a team event, which this was.

What Novak objected to, it seems, was the close proximity to the start of the match. And if Novak acted angrily, well, he is #1. The rules are clear on refusing a test, but not on putting one off until after the match. It also says that the player, with good reason, may put off a test. It could be deemed that he had good reason.

Now, we know that doping methods change, and often ahead of the rules, so, if it is true that banned substances can deteriorate in the body during the match, then the rules should be changed. Not saying that Novak is guilty of anything, just discussing what's on the table right now.

I would be curious to see have Novak receive drug testors agents that close to match time previously.. I would be very surprised if this request is the only time it has ever occurred.

 

[Moxie]

Agree the sports drink etc was to be in a documentary we are still waiting for? my questions are, is it the same ingredients that he has his team mix for him,? or a different mixture all together., I have a feeling it is a different mixture, which he wont disclose, lets see how the promotion goes during the Australian Open and his other Wellness products, whatever they are.

This is what I'm thinking...Novak gets a finely calculated series of things to get his metabolites, electrolytes, etc, working just right. Fully herbal or WADA approved, or whatever. But what will get sold to the consumer will be a fancy Gatorade. If you ask me. And what has taken so long?!

 

[Moxie]

I would be curious to see have Novak receive drug testors agents that close to match time previously.. I would be very surprised if this request is the only time it has ever occurred.

If you take him at his word, that's why he was so bothered...that they've never done that to him before. Which might be a fair point.