Fedalovic Wars

PhiEaglesfan712

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Interestingly, it was Roger who retired first, although five years and six years old and the other two, due to knee problems and surgery. I would have thought that with his first strike tennis and fluid movement with seemingly less physical exertion and the other two, he would outlasted them even though he was older! LOL
I'd like to believe that Federer was a victim of unlucky timing at the end. He was going strong as late as the 2020 Australian Open, until he suffered the injury in the QF. He barely won that match, but the injury made him uncompetitive against Novak in the SF. Then, the pandemic hits (the lockdowns and everything), which most likely messed up Roger's recovery schedule. Roger came back in 2021 and wasn't the same player. He played his last match at Wimbledon just weeks before his 40th birthday, and was bageled in the final set.

To be honest, I thought Rafa was going to retire in 2021, after he missed Wimbledon and the Olympics due to injury, as well as his subsequent lost to Lloyd Harris at the Citi Open that August. That Rafa looked like a shell of the player that bageled Sinner and was competitive against Djokovic at the French Open just two months earlier. I would have never thought he would come back from that, much less win the next 2 slams.
 
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the AntiPusher

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You're kind to ask. Personally, I've been very "in my feelings" about Rafa in the last many months, and watching him play. You have a favorite player over such a long time, as you know, and it's hard when you can see that the end is coming.

With Rafa, we're lived through the struggles with injury, and even confidence, and we've seen him come back. But it's getting harder to believe in. I'd love it if he can pull it together for one more resurgence, and yes, another win at RG would be a dream. (I will remind you and others of when we Rafa fans just hoped he'd come back, after a fallow period, and finally get #15 to pass Pete. So dreams do come true.)

That said, to the other part of your question, and citing Fiero, by which you mean, how much do we fear he'll limp towards the end? I read Wertheim's recent Mailbag to this effect: he says that every player has a right to play as long as they like, and it in no way affects their legacy. Fans love the romance of seeing someone go out on a high note, or hoping they will. But that's hard to time perfectly. I'll support Rafa as long as he plays. The decision of when to quit is up to him.
I fully concur with lil sis Moxie!
 

atttomole

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Safedalovic wars should be the title of this thread. We should include Sampras!! No??
 

shawnbm

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Safedalovic wars should be the title of this thread. We should include Sampras!! No??
Pistol Pete is always in the conversation especially if talking fast grass and hard courts. He had an iron will and feared no one.
 

Fiero425

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P QF!istol Pete is always in the conversation, esp. if talking fast grass and hard courts. He had an iron will and feared no one.

True enuf! Thru his tenure at the top, Pete was 2nd to none, even w/o playing in a FO final! At his best, he could only make 2 good runs in Paris before the eventual champ. took him out in the QF & SF resp.! Even Agassi embarrassed him in an early round on the Terre Battue of RG! It was a different story on faster courts where he excelled; esp. indoors & on grass! He still had some "Kryptonite" players that beat him on his fave surfaces; 1 being Richard Krajicek who stopped his Wimbledon runs right down the middle by upsetting Pete in the '96 QF! Krajicek caught him on HC's as well, but overall, Pete was the man w/ nerves of steel! Fed doesn't come close IMO! :astonished-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth::fearful-face::yawningface::anxious-face-with-sweat:
 
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Ricardo

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Fiero talking bs again, Federer is better than Sampras....put simply.
 

El Dude

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True enuf! Thru his tenure at the top, Pete was 2nd to none, even w/o playing in a FO final! At his best, he could only make 2 good runs in Paris before the eventual champ. took him out in the QF & SF resp.! Even Agassi embarrassed him in an early round on the Terre Battue of RG! It was a different story on faster courts where he excelled; esp. indoors & on grass! He still had some "Kryptonite" players that beat him on his fave surfaces; 1 being Richard Krajicek who stopped his Wimbledon runs right down the middle by upsetting Pete in the '96 QF! Krajicek caught him on HC's as well, but overall, Pete was the man w/ nerves of steel! Fed doesn't come close IMO! :astonished-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth::fearful-face::yawningface::anxious-face-with-sweat:
I'm pretty sure you're talking about nerves, which I think you're right about: Pete was better than Roger in high pressure moments. But overall, at best (for Pete) they were roughly equal on grass, Roger was a bit better on hards, and much better on clay. Therefore, Roger > Pete -- and it isn't particularly close.
 

Front242

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I'm pretty sure you're talking about nerves, which I think you're right about: Pete was better than Roger in high pressure moments. But overall, at best (for Pete) they were roughly equal on grass, Roger was a bit better on hards, and much better on clay. Therefore, Roger > Pete -- and it isn't particularly close.
Yeah if Roger only had Pete's clutch serve he'd have ended up with many more slams. Obviously Roger's serve was one of the best but it broke down at times when he needed it most. All those 40-15 blown match points must still haunt him. Doubt very much that Pete would have lost that many with 2 match points and 40-15 on his own serve. The serve on the first MP at Wimbledon 2019 was absolute dog shit. Weak asf and right into the hitting zone for Djokovic.
 
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Nadalfan2013

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In terms of peak level and true greatness:

Nadal > Federer > Sampras > Djokovic

In terms peak luck with draws, timing and injuries:

Djokovic > Federer > Sampras > Nadal
 
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atttomole

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What are we gong to call this Alcaraz Sinner rivalry? Someone has to come with a good name and start a new thread on it. Suggestions suggestions!!
 
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PhiEaglesfan712

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Yeah if Roger only had Pete's clutch serve he'd have ended up with many more slams. Obviously Roger's serve was one of the best but it broke down at times when he needed it most. All those 40-15 blown match points must still haunt him. Doubt very much that Pete would have lost that many with 2 match points and 40-15 on his own serve. The serve on the first MP at Wimbledon 2019 was absolute dog shit. Weak asf and right into the hitting zone for Djokovic.
The 2009 US Open final was another good example. I couldn't believe that a prime Federer blew 2 tiebreakers and wilted in the 5th set. With a reliable serve, he wins at least one of those tiebreakers, and a 6th straight US Open title.
 
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Moxie

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Who said that? Did I? I don't recall! He does own many records; that's for sure! Nadal owns Paris! Fed used to own Wimbl.! Novak owns the rest! :yes:
Somehow, I took it that he was talking about someone he talks to face-to-face. I don't know what the response is, though, as you say, he doesn't own it all, and he didn't really own it this year. Does anyone "own" tennis? Surely, Novak is king of the hill, for now, and the foreseeable future. If a person wants to crow that much, I'm not sure there is a response for someone that committed to it, and ignoring all nuance. There is and was a Big 3 for a reason, and a lot of Novak's passing Rafa and Roger isn't by much. Or not at all, or not yet, as with RG and Wimbledon. He had to win 23 Majors before he was ever top of that pile. It's not really a one-man conversation, for anyone paying attention.
 

Fiero425

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Somehow, I took it that he was talking about someone he talks to face-to-face. IDK what the response is, though, as you say, he doesn't own it all, and he didn't really own it this year. Does anyone "own" tennis? Surely, Novak is king of the hill, for now, and the foreseeable future. If a person wants to crow that much, I'm not sure there is a response for someone that committed to it, and ignoring all nuance. There is and was a Big 3 for a reason, and a lot of Novak's passing Rafa and Roger isn't by much. Or not at all, or not yet, as with RG and Wimbledon. He had to win 23 Majors before he was ever top of that pile. It's not really a one-man conversation, for anyone paying attention.

Of course it's a one man convo! Djokovic only had to overtake Fedal by "1" to OWN a record (which are plentiful as you well know)! He's done a lot > that; 7-0 in YEC's alone in comparison to Nadal! As for this past season, Djokovic was being rather single-minded w/ a GOAL of winning an OGM in Paris! It seems as if TCC is spending an exhorbanent amt. of time highlighting his losses in the past ('13 FO SF) & all of 2024! Just surfed by his loss to Nardi at IW's! I still haven't seen the Olympic final in Paris! I'm sure it's played sometime, somewhere over these past months, but probably not as much as they enjoy telecasting him going down in flames! I think he'll be motivated to come back strong in 2025 to take at least 1 MAJOR & a couple Masters! I doubt he'll embarrass himself as some have done in the past! :face-with-tears-of-joy::fearful-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth::yawningface::astonished-face:
 

Moxie

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Of course it's a one man convo! Djokovic only had to overtake Fedal by "1" to OWN a record (which are plentiful as you well know)! He's done a lot > that; 7-0 in YEC's alone in comparison to Nadal! As for this past season, Djokovic was being rather single-minded w/ a GOAL of winning an OGM in Paris! It seems as if TCC is spending an exhorbanent amt. of time highlighting his losses in the past ('13 FO SF) & all of 2024! Just surfed by his loss to Nardi at IW's! I still haven't seen the Olympic final in Paris! I'm sure it's played sometime, somewhere over these past months, but probably not as much as they enjoy telecasting him going down in flames! I think he'll be motivated to come back strong in 2025 to take at least 1 MAJOR & a couple Masters! I doubt he'll embarrass himself as some have done in the past! :face-with-tears-of-joy::fearful-face::face-with-hand-over-mouth::yawningface::astonished-face:
If you think Novak got to 24 Majors without the competition in front of him, I don't know what to say to you. 3 men passed Pete's record of 14 Majors by 6, and 6+. This doesn't happen in a vacuum, so, no, it's not a one-man conversation. Funny you're so sure that Djokovic won't "embarrass" himself, in your estimation, by hanging around too long, when you basically accused everyone else of it. You're blinkered. And I don't know what to say about the whining about what they're showing on TC. For one who says he's not really a fan of Djokovic, you sure have the shoulder-chip of one.
 

Fiero425

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If you think Novak got to 24 Majors without the competition in front of him, I don't know what to say to you. 3 men passed Pete's record of 14 Majors by 6, and 6+. This doesn't happen in a vacuum, so, no, it's not a one-man conversation. Funny you're so sure that Djokovic won't "embarrass" himself, in your estimation, by hanging around too long, when you basically accused everyone else of it. You're blinkered. And I don't know what to say about the whining about what they're showing on TC. For one who says he's not really a fan of Djokovic, you sure have the shoulder-chip of one.

I guess I'm thinking more about the future where no one cares about who's in 2nd place! Thirty or 40 yrs. from now, who knows how they'll feel about Federer & Nadal! Sampras became KING 22 yrs. ago, but no one cared about Emerson even then! I just toot Djokovic's horn since few do, thinking "tennis begins & ends w/ Fedal!" Just keeping things in perspective! :fearful-face::yawningface::angry-face::astonished-face:
 
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Kieran

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I guess I'm thinking more about the future where no one cares about who's in 2nd place! Thirty or 40 yrs. from now, who knows how they'll feel about Federer & Nadal! Sampras became KING 22 yrs. ago, but no one cared about Emerson even then! I just toot Djokovic's horn since few do, thinking "tennis begins & ends w/ Fedal!" Just keeping things in perspective! :fearful-face::yawningface::angry-face::astonished-face:
Gimme a well earned rest, brother. Perspective? The Fjokolytes were crying into their carwash lattes when the Djoker was sent packing from Australia for attempting to scam the system. Their whole discussion was about just how big the asterisk need to be, that was to be applied to the winner there. Novak meanwhile was a civil rights hero on a par with Rosa Parks, and your woman who fell under the horse a hundred years ago. Or a thousand years ago. People forget things.

But when Rafa had to skip a half-career worth of slams, more or less, through injury, the Djokolytes are in the gym working out - working out how to scan this so it doesn’t look like Novak actually benefited from it. He got a whole career slam gratis since Rafa was last fit. It took him from 2 behind to 2 ahead in the numbers.

That’s not perspective at all, is it? :popcorn
 
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