Fearless Predictions

[Iona16]

Juan Martin Del Potro will retire (or be irrelevant) before he turns 30. Think about it. Del Potro is 25, 26 later this year. Do you really see him playing at a top 10 level or 4-5 more years? I just can't see it - he seems to have an old man's body. Maybe he'll have bursts here and there, but I think we've seen the best of JMDP.

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

What absolute nonsense.

 

[Moxie]

Juan Martin Del Potro will retire (or be irrelevant) before he turns 30. Think about it. Del Potro is 25, 26 later this year. Do you really see him playing at a top 10 level or 4-5 more years? I just can't see it - he seems to have an old man's body. Maybe he'll have bursts here and there, but I think we've seen the best of JMDP.

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

What absolute nonsense.

You're absolutely right, Iona. I was going to ignore it, but since you didn't….there's almost nothing about Cali's statement that is true or backed up by evidence.

Murray has a famously committed fitness regime, and Delpotro admits he didn't work out at all on his long injury lay-off.

Everyone knows that Murray has more weapons than Juan Martín, whose are big and potent, though limited, including his movement.

Murray has addressed his back issue, and JMDP is still in the great ether about his wrists.

Complete nonsense, as you say. Now he's just making it up.

 

[calitennis127]

^ For me your wrists are more important body parts than legs or knees for tennis. Tomic strained his groin and couldn't run to balls in his AO match against Nadal and still managed to only lose the set 6-4 with the ability to hit winners from a static position. How are you supposed to properly hit balls with a bad wrist? His right one is supposedly ok and only his left now but his whole backhand side is severely compromised. The same can't be said for any player with leg or knee issues. Leg/knee problems are more easily fixed with keyhole surgery than wrist surgery too.

Seeing as the right wrist surgery was successful I think he's wasting his time right now playing through pain and retiring from matches/tournaments and Del Potro should just bite the bullet and go for the surgery on his left wrist too at this stage.

You may be right that surgery would be the best route for him, Front. I haven't followed it closely enough to know.

That said, I don't think the injury is insurmountable.

 

[calitennis127]

Juan Martin Del Potro will retire (or be irrelevant) before he turns 30. Think about it. Del Potro is 25, 26 later this year. Do you really see him playing at a top 10 level or 4-5 more years? I just can't see it - he seems to have an old man's body. Maybe he'll have bursts here and there, but I think we've seen the best of JMDP.

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

What absolute nonsense.

You're absolutely right, Iona. I was going to ignore it, but since you didn't….there's almost nothing about Cali's statement that is true or backed up by evidence.

Murray has a famously committed fitness regime, and Delpotro admits he didn't work out at all on his long injury lay-off.

Everyone knows that Murray has more weapons than Juan Martín, whose are big and potent, though limited, including his movement.

Murray has addressed his back issue, and JMDP is still in the great ether about his wrists.

Complete nonsense, as you say. Now he's just making it up.

As usual, Moxie has no idea what she is talking about when it comes to sports. She doesn't relate to the mentality of the actual athletes at all.

Murray has a famously committed fitness regime,

The issue is not whether it was "committed". The issue is whether it is a good routine.

No one has ever doubted Murray's passion for the game and his devotion to improving himself. He has undoubtedly been one of the hardest workers on tour. But as someone who has read about his workout routine, I am fully aware that it is terribly ill-advised and it constitutes serious overtraining. Among many other errors, he eats worthless protein bars (something that the best scientists will tell you is a total waste) and runs to immense excess, in a manner that causes great wear-and-tear.

We have all seen him repeatedly huff and puff over the years during intense matches, and his excuse could never be the same as Djokovic's, because he doesn't have a breathing disorder. Murray has also been one to limp gingerly in between points and cock his head back as if he is a) very tired, or b) in pain.

I have read plenty about Murray's much-celebrated workout routine and frankly it is in large part stupid.

and Delpotro admits he didn't work out at all on his long injury lay-off.

That is better than working out in a manner that constitutes destructive overtraining.

Everyone knows that Murray has more weapons than Juan Martín, whose are big and potent, though limited, including his movement.

:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing

lolz:

Thanks for bestowing your tremendous wisdom on us with that one, Moxie. Care to explain that?

Murray has more weapons than Del Potro? Lol. That is one for the ages.

In terms of forehand, this isn't even close. In terms of serve, it is a bit closer, but Del Potro is clearly a class above, aside from those occasional days when Murray hits a slew of aces. On the backhand side, I would generally give Murray an edge, but not by that much. Del Potro on his better days can do just as much damage with the backhand. And, either way, neither looks to be much of a shotmaker with the backhand, so it isn't all that big a deal.

Del Potro's forehand is clearly the best in the game when it is clicking. This is beyond question. It is no "limited" weapon. Delpo can do whatever he wants with it, and unlike Nadal, he can hit flat and finish points off in all directions with regularity and ease. He doesn't need to hit the ball 45 times with topspin and then, after 20 rally shots, finally get a short ball for a forehand put-away.

Also, regarding movement, your statement is laughable. Del Potro - contrary to conventional wisdom - is one of the most fluid movers on tour. I always find it funny when people talk about him like he is just an advanced version of Isner or Karlovic. That is ridiculous. There is no comparison. Del Potro is a very gifted athlete, with great quickness and agility side-to-side. This is why he has gone toe-to-toe in so many long rallies with the Top 4 throughout his career. You can't do that without great athleticism.

Why don't you watch the point at 0:10 right here from Del Potro's manhandling of Nadal in Shanghai? Watch that and then talk to me about "weapons" and movement. Good grief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh62meHwUHw

Murray has addressed his back issue, and JMDP is still in the great ether about his wrists.

:laydownlaughing:clap

Great argument - that proves it folks. Murray has fixed his back, but Del Potro has evidently failed to do enough wrist curls with his dumbbells to fix his wrist. Lazy bastard.

Del Potro's wrist problem has nothing to do with his lack of commitment to fitness. It is a peculiar injury that has nagged him. To fault his work ethic for not getting rid of the injury is preposterous. But what am I to expect of someone who speaks in nothing but vague generalities that feel good inside the tummy?

Complete nonsense, as you say. Now he's just making it up.

Yeah, just like I made up that argument that players don't "wither" by Nadal's horrifying glare.

 

[calitennis127]

Juan Martin Del Potro will retire (or be irrelevant) before he turns 30. Think about it. Del Potro is 25, 26 later this year. Do you really see him playing at a top 10 level or 4-5 more years? I just can't see it - he seems to have an old man's body. Maybe he'll have bursts here and there, but I think we've seen the best of JMDP.

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

What absolute nonsense.

I'm sorry if I touched on a sensitive chord for you, since Del Potro can actually beat Nadal in a big match while Murray almost always can't. Delpo didn't need Nadal to get hurt to win his first Slam like Murray did.

 

[I.Haychew]

Cali: If you were Murray's phitness trainer, what would have him do in order to maximize his fysical potential?

 

[Moxie]

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

What absolute nonsense.

You're absolutely right, Iona. I was going to ignore it, but since you didn't….there's almost nothing about Cali's statement that is true or backed up by evidence.

Murray has a famously committed fitness regime, and Delpotro admits he didn't work out at all on his long injury lay-off.

Everyone knows that Murray has more weapons than Juan Martín, whose are big and potent, though limited, including his movement.

Murray has addressed his back issue, and JMDP is still in the great ether about his wrists.

Complete nonsense, as you say. Now he's just making it up.

As usual, Moxie has no idea what she is talking about when it comes to sports. She doesn't relate to the mentality of the actual athletes at all.

Murray has a famously committed fitness regime,

The issue is not whether it was "committed". The issue is whether it is a good routine.

No one has ever doubted Murray's passion for the game and his devotion to improving himself. He has undoubtedly been one of the hardest workers on tour. But as someone who has read about his workout routine, I am fully aware that it is terribly ill-advised and it constitutes serious overtraining. Among many other errors, he eats worthless protein bars (something that the best scientists will tell you is a total waste) and runs to immense excess, in a manner that causes great wear-and-tear.

We have all seen him repeatedly huff and puff over the years during intense matches, and his excuse could never be the same as Djokovic's, because he doesn't have a breathing disorder. Murray has also been one to limp gingerly in between points and cock his head back as if he is a) very tired, or b) in pain.

I have read plenty about Murray's much-celebrated workout routine and frankly it is in large part stupid.

and Delpotro admits he didn't work out at all on his long injury lay-off.

That is better than working out in a manner that constitutes destructive overtraining.

Everyone knows that Murray has more weapons than Juan Martín, whose are big and potent, though limited, including his movement.

:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing

lolz:

Thanks for bestowing your tremendous wisdom on us with that one, Moxie. Care to explain that?

Murray has more weapons than Del Potro? Lol. That is one for the ages.

In terms of forehand, this isn't even close. In terms of serve, it is a bit closer, but Del Potro is clearly a class above, aside from those occasional days when Murray hits a slew of aces. On the backhand side, I would generally give Murray an edge, but not by that much. Del Potro on his better days can do just as much damage with the backhand. And, either way, neither looks to be much of a shotmaker with the backhand, so it isn't all that big a deal.

Del Potro's forehand is clearly the best in the game when it is clicking. This is beyond question. It is no "limited" weapon. Delpo can do whatever he wants with it, and unlike Nadal, he can hit flat and finish points off in all directions with regularity and ease. He doesn't need to hit the ball 45 times with topspin and then, after 20 rally shots, finally get a short ball for a forehand put-away.

Also, regarding movement, your statement is laughable. Del Potro - contrary to conventional wisdom - is one of the most fluid movers on tour. I always find it funny when people talk about him like he is just an advanced version of Isner or Karlovic. That is ridiculous. There is no comparison. Del Potro is a very gifted athlete, with great quickness and agility side-to-side. This is why he has gone toe-to-toe in so many long rallies with the Top 4 throughout his career. You can't do that without great athleticism.

Why don't you watch the point at 0:10 right here from Del Potro's manhandling of Nadal in Shanghai? Watch that and then talk to me about "weapons" and movement. Good grief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh62meHwUHw

Murray has addressed his back issue, and JMDP is still in the great ether about his wrists.

:laydownlaughing:clap

Great argument - that proves it folks. Murray has fixed his back, but Del Potro has evidently failed to do enough wrist curls with his dumbbells to fix his wrist. Lazy bastard.

Del Potro's wrist problem has nothing to do with his lack of commitment to fitness. It is a peculiar injury that has nagged him. To fault his work ethic for not getting rid of the injury is preposterous. But what am I to expect of someone who speaks in nothing but vague generalities that feel good inside the tummy?

Complete nonsense, as you say. Now he's just making it up.

Yeah, just like I made up that argument that players don't "wither" by Nadal's horrifying glare.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

^ This post is difficult to respond to, not just because you're so obtuse, but because it's structurally a mess. But I'll try. I'll opt for bolds in your above.

1) What the heck are you on about about protein bars, and where did you get it?

2) Murray DOES have more weapons than Juan Martin. The big Argentine has a big serve and huge flat FH. His BH is fine when his wrist is good, but he doesn't really have net skills, because he can't get himself there fast enough. Murray has quickness around the court, defensive skills to rival Nadal and Djokovic, soft hands at the net, and a better and more cleverly used slice, even when JM's wrist doesn't hurt. His BH is better, and so is his tennis IQ.

3) Murray's back v. Del Potro's other wrist: Both are still be TBD, and I'm not faulting one choice over the other, but you're the one stating which will have a longer career than the other. In that sense, you're just making a preferential prediction. General conventional wisdom is MUCH more worried about DP, however.

4) You always tell me I know nothing about sports. Insulting the poster is clearly a tactic when your arguments are weak. As is laughing, via emoticons, derisively, rather than straightforwardly having the convictions of your own opinions. If you felt them strongly, you wouldn't need to demean, or to illustrate your ideas with so many emoticons, the best use of which is to soften on-line comments, in the absence of face-to-face interaction, not to bully an already tenuous argument.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Juan Martin Del Potro will retire (or be irrelevant) before he turns 30. Think about it. Del Potro is 25, 26 later this year. Do you really see him playing at a top 10 level or 4-5 more years? I just can't see it - he seems to have an old man's body. Maybe he'll have bursts here and there, but I think we've seen the best of JMDP.

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

LMAO you really are clueless.

 

[calitennis127]

Juan Martin Del Potro will retire (or be irrelevant) before he turns 30. Think about it. Del Potro is 25, 26 later this year. Do you really see him playing at a top 10 level or 4-5 more years? I just can't see it - he seems to have an old man's body. Maybe he'll have bursts here and there, but I think we've seen the best of JMDP.

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

LMAO you really are clueless.

Agreed. Any time someone says something that isn't a cliche they are clueless.

And Broken - did you enjoy that sensational shotmaker and #1 player in the world Rafael Nadal having Dolgopolov double his winners the other night (36 to 17)? How about those flat forehands to Nadal's forehand? A beautiful thing to watch, isn't it?

 

[calitennis127]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

^ This post is difficult to respond to, not just because you're so obtuse, but because it's structurally a mess. But I'll try.

Oh, well thank you. That is so very appreciated Miss Moxie. Maybe I should make my posts a simple bullet list so that you can follow them better.

1) What the heck are you on about about protein bars, and where did you get it?

Take a look at just the title of this article from early 2013 on Murray's training regimen. Perhaps the detail of it will offend you, as any details do, but I am simply trying to make a point here: Andy Murray goes for the protein shakes.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/27/murray-musclesin-on-heavyweights

I am good friends with a doctor who is a brilliant expert on physiology and biochemistry. For a few years now, he has passed along a great deal of literature to me on the negative effects of typical protein-centered muscle-building workout regimens. It is common knowledge among biochemists that denatured whey protein does not enhance muscle, let alone improve athletic performance. All that protein shakes do is help you put on weight with all of the calories and sugar they have to offer.

I could pass this literature along to you, if you want, but again, I know that you don't like anything that is detailed. It certainly isn't something that Broken-Cliche-Lace - truly, the man of the masses - could ever stomach, because God forbid the majority wasn't right about something. Only a troll would argue a minority viewpoint on anything. That is rule #1 for BS-man.

2) Murray DOES have more weapons than Juan Martin. The big Argentine has a big serve and huge flat FH. His BH is fine when his wrist is good, but he doesn't really have net skills, because he can't get himself there fast enough.

Delpo doesn't have net skills? Huh? His hands and his touch are fine. Being as big as he is, it is tougher for him to handle low balls and cover the court when he is closer to the net, but his actual skills for volleying are just fine. I do agree that Murray's volleys are better overall because of his quickness advantage, but being that the modern game is played so heavily on the baseline, I really do not consider volleying to be a serious "weapon". It's an important skill in certain situations, but "weapon" is way too strong a word for it. The word "weapon" is inherently offensive and attack-oriented. Volleys only come after you've gained a clear advantage in the point with true "weapons" - namely, shots from the back of the court.

Would we really compare Llodra's volleys to Tsonga's forehand as "weapons"? That would be preposterous.

Murray has quickness around the court,

Yes he does. He is superior to Del Potro in that respect. But movement is not a "weapon". It helps you set up your "weapons", which are actual shots.

Ferrer is a fabulous mover. Not only he is blessed with great quickness and athletic ability, but his footwork is near perfect. Does this mean he has more weapons than Delpo or Tsonga? If you say yes, you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

"Movement" is not a weapon standing on its own. It helps to set up the weapons. But the word "weapon" is inherently offensive. Movement by definition cannot be a "weapon".

defensive skills to rival Nadal and Djokovic,

And how is this a "weapon"? Last I checked, a weapon was something used in warfare to offensively attack an enemy, like an AK-47 or a canon. A "weapon" is not a shield; a shield is a shield.

Counter-punching means being, in effect, an anti-weapon. Isn't that what Murray is known for? He takes the biggest hitters and neutralizes their shots with movement and defense. Well, that doesn't constitute having "weapons". That constitutes neutralizing weapons.

soft hands at the net

Delpo has soft hands at the net too. Like I said, his problems at the net derive from his size, not his racquet skills.

and a better and more cleverly used slice

A slice is used so little percentage wise out of total rallies that this is hardly a big deal. The only two players who have a slice that is actually significant are Federer and Nadal. But even Federer has said that so many of the new surfaces neutralize a slice, and it has been common talk on the ATP circuit in recent years that most players in the Top 100 gobble up the slice in addition to being much better at passing shots than in years past. So the significance of the slice really doesn't amount to much. It helps with a couple points here and there, but it is hardly a serious "weapon".

His BH is better, and so is his tennis IQ.

Better tennis IQ? I give you the floor to explain that one.

And I would agree that Murray's BH can be a serious weapon if he looks to make it one, but so often he doesn't.

Murray's back v. Del Potro's other wrist: Both are still be TBD, and I'm not faulting one choice over the other, but you're the one stating which will have a longer career than the other. In that sense, you're just making a preferential prediction. General conventional wisdom is MUCH more worried about DP, however.

That's because most people prefer Murray's game to Del Potro's and think that Del Potro's playing style isn't as sustainable as Murray's. These are the same people who predicted that Nadal was going to retire at 24 because his knees just wouldn't be able to take it, and that Federer could never win the French after 2008, and, like Broken, these are the same people who hilariously questioned "how far along" Nadal was back during the Golden Swing last year. People just weren't sure if Nadal was quite "back" yet. And how did those predictions and lines of thought turn out?

- Nadal had his best hardcourt run ever at age 27
- Federer won the French Open in 2009 and played his best match by far (a match he should have won) against Nadal at Roland Garros in the 2011 final, at age 29
- Nadal stormed through the clay season last year, starting with Acapulco, and that set him up to get back to #1. And only after Nadal's (somewhat lucky) win over Djokovic at Roland Garros did the likes of Broken finally feel convinced that "Nadal was back". Well, I'm glad they needed 30 matches to see it.

There's the conventional wisdom for you.

You always tell me I know nothing about sports. Insulting the poster is clearly a tactic when your arguments are weak. As is laughing, via emoticons, derisively, rather than straightforwardly having the convictions of your own opinions.

Oh trust me, I have strong convictions. I have been pretty consistent about them for a while and I have a reputation on this board for certain positions that I have maintained for years - as you know.

If you felt them strongly, you wouldn't need to demean, or to illustrate your ideas with so many emoticons, the best use of which is to soften on-line comments, in the absence of face-to-face interaction, not to bully an already tenuous argument.

Well I am happy to see that you have a problem with Galileo-like argumentative tactics. Does that mean you now agree with the Church's position in that saga? They said pretty much the same thing about Galilio that you are saying about me - the only difference being that I am right that Delpo has more in the way of offensive shots and I can fully justify my position, while Galileo could not win his argument with the knowledge available at his time.

As for emoticons - you all decided to include them in the new website. They are there. Dare I say they are a "weapon" of sorts?

Thank you. And have a wonderful evening.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Juan Martin Del Potro will retire (or be irrelevant) before he turns 30. Think about it. Del Potro is 25, 26 later this year. Do you really see him playing at a top 10 level or 4-5 more years? I just can't see it - he seems to have an old man's body. Maybe he'll have bursts here and there, but I think we've seen the best of JMDP.

Del Potro is much more likely to have longevity than Murray, in my opinion. Murray has one of the worst training regimens and fitness routines of any top player. And he still scrambles after balls like he is 8 years old. And he has a bad back. If anyone looks old or looks like he has an old body, it is him much more than Delpo.

Delpo has more in the way of weapons to win short points, and his legs and knees have not been problematic health-wise. I think he will last beyond 30. Murray is the most likely of the Top 4 to fall off the map, if I had to pick one.

LMAO you really are clueless.

Agreed. Any time someone says something that isn't a cliche they are clueless.

And Broken - did you enjoy that sensational shotmaker and #1 player in the world Rafael Nadal having Dolgopolov double his winners the other night (36 to 17)? How about those flat forehands to Nadal's forehand? A beautiful thing to watch, isn't it?

Indifferent. What do you feel about "the most talented player of all time" having an embarrassing career for someone who plays the highest level of tennis ever known to man?

 

[Front242]

Just read that link cali posted about Murray above. Can't see how what's he's eating is anywhere even close to 6000 calories. Not a hope. Those are very clean foods and he's not eating that much at all. 6000 cals my ass.