Early French Open Ruminations

Fiero425

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Front242 said:
Fiero425 said:
Sundaymorningguy said:
Crossing my fingers for Novak on this one! Do you think Novak accidentally on purpose tanks a tournament before the French to take the pressure off?

I feel anytime he doesn't win, he's letting it go to save himself; last season Masters' losses case in point against Federer and Murray at Canadian and Cincy! :angel: :dodgy:

LOL, dream on. Cinci is one he's been trying to win for years as it's the only one he hasn't won. Don't kid yourself. Roger is just better on the fastest hard courts and that's currently one of the fastest on tour.

So you think he'd risk his desire for another USO to take a simple Masters he has plenty of time to get later? :cover :nono
 

Front242

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Fiero425 said:
Front242 said:
Fiero425 said:
I feel anytime he doesn't win, he's letting it go to save himself; last season Masters' losses case in point against Federer and Murray at Canadian and Cincy! :angel: :dodgy:

LOL, dream on. Cinci is one he's been trying to win for years as it's the only one he hasn't won. Don't kid yourself. Roger is just better on the fastest hard courts and that's currently one of the fastest on tour.

So you think he'd risk his desire for another USO to take a simple Masters he has plenty of time to get later? :cover :nono

No, I don't think he'd risk anything. He was just outplayed. He's lost in Cinci everytime he's played it. Is he tanking the clay masters so to win Roland Garros? No. He's won some fair and square and lost the others just the same way and still never won the French. And that has nothing to do with the preceding events.
 

Fiero425

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Front242 said:
Fiero425 said:
Front242 said:
LOL, dream on. Cinci is one he's been trying to win for years as it's the only one he hasn't won. Don't kid yourself. Roger is just better on the fastest hard courts and that's currently one of the fastest on tour.

So you think he'd risk his desire for another USO to take a simple Masters he has plenty of time to get later? :cover :nono

No, I don't think he'd risk anything. He was just outplayed. He's lost in Cinci everytime he's played it. Is he tanking the clay masters so to win Roland Garros? No. He's won some fair and square and lost the others just the same way and still never won the French. And that has nothing to do with the preceding events.

It's all in the timing IMO! In the 2nd half of the season, he had to be tired and those weren't easy wins to make those finals in Canada and Cincy; that's all I was thinking of! He was more fresh to win those clay events before the FO where he was extended by Murray unnecessarily in the semi before losing final to Stan! Even when he won the 1st set, I thought he was in trouble and wasn't surprised he lost it in the end! He seems to have a mental block at the FO; even in command, it's just not over until it's over! :cover :nono :cry
 

Front242

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Fiero425 said:
Front242 said:
Fiero425 said:
So you think he'd risk his desire for another USO to take a simple Masters he has plenty of time to get later? :cover :nono

No, I don't think he'd risk anything. He was just outplayed. He's lost in Cinci everytime he's played it. Is he tanking the clay masters so to win Roland Garros? No. He's won some fair and square and lost the others just the same way and still never won the French. And that has nothing to do with the preceding events.

It's all in the timing IMO! In the 2nd half of the season, he had to be tired and those weren't easy wins to make those finals in Canada and Cincy; that's all I was thinking of! He was more fresh to win those clay events before the FO where he was extended by Murray unnecessarily in the semi before losing final to Stan! Even when he won the 1st set, I thought he was in trouble and wasn't surprised he lost it in the end! He seems to have a mental block at the FO; even in command, it's just not over until it's over! :cover :nono :cry

You want to talk about mental blocks....try watching Federer in finals or semis against Djokovic for the last 7 years save for a few here and there where he hasn't wimped out. If 34 year old Federer can beat Djokovic to win Cinci and still make the final of the 2015 USO I think that's a losing argument right there. Djokovic has his trusty CVAC in New Jersey just btw for the US open so that's a nonsense excuse and you know it. And he wasn't tired against Wawrinka at the French Open lol. The guy just played insanely well and deserves a lot more credit than that. Novak can't and doesn't win everything.
 

Fiero425

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Front242 said:
Fiero425 said:
Front242 said:
No, I don't think he'd risk anything. He was just outplayed. He's lost in Cinci everytime he's played it. Is he tanking the clay masters so to win Roland Garros? No. He's won some fair and square and lost the others just the same way and still never won the French. And that has nothing to do with the preceding events.

It's all in the timing IMO! In the 2nd half of the season, he had to be tired and those weren't easy wins to make those finals in Canada and Cincy; that's all I was thinking of! He was more fresh to win those clay events before the FO where he was extended by Murray unnecessarily in the semi before losing final to Stan! Even when he won the 1st set, I thought he was in trouble and wasn't surprised he lost it in the end! He seems to have a mental block at the FO; even in command, it's just not over until it's over! :cover :nono :cry

You want to talk about mental blocks....try watching Federer in finals or semis against Djokovic for the last 7 years save for a few here and there where he hasn't wimped out. If 34 year old Federer can beat Djokovic to win Cinci and still make the final of the 2015 USO I think that's a losing argument right there. Djokovic has his trusty CVAC in New Jersey just btw for the US open so that's a nonsense excuse and you know it. And he wasn't tired against Wawrinka at the French Open lol. The guy just played insanely well and deserves a lot more credit than that. Novak can't and doesn't win everything.

He's come the closest since the days of Laver and Rosewall; 6 of 8 Masters (all finals) and 3 of 4 majors and took his pet 500 in Beijing! His 2015 actually was better than 2011 where he lacked the YE Championship in London! He doesn't need all of those wins, but he seriously seems to be trying! :clap :angel: :dodgy:
 

Front242

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Exactly. You said he seriously seems to be trying. So if he fails to win the one he wants most, i.e. Cinci it's 'cos he lost and nothing more.
 

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When Cinci, RG and Olympics are prior, he tend Mardid. Not so good choice, or he might just put match or two.
 

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Great Hands said:
The fact that Novak will be going for the Nole slam as well gives the tournament some extra pressure that he really doesn't need - trying to finally complete the Career Grand Slam is enough! Now at RG he'll be going for:

Completing the Career Grand Slam
Completing the Nole Slam

I'm just hoping he stays injury free.

Watching Serena's meltdown in the USO, it's obvious that the "pressure" affects everyone. For Novak, getting the FO monkey off his back might be the biggest hurdle this year. One because it's the only one he hasn't won, even though he's come close. Secondly, by winning, he will hold all four slam titles at the same time, if not in the same calendar year. That's huge, and something neither of the other two will ever do.
 

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Hahahaha, I think Novak wants a FO title and the Olympic gold more than he wants a Cincy title. Nobody remembers the Cincy winner.
 

nehmeth

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Sundaymorningguy said:
Hahahaha, I think Novak wants a FO title and the Olympic gold more than he wants a Cincy title. Nobody remembers the Cincy winner.

Completely agree.

In fairness to the Cincinnati tournament, the value in winning means that he has won every Masters 1000 event at least once. No one has done that before. So while the FO and Gold medal hold greater significance, winning Cincy would be a career milestone of its own.
 

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I am sure he will win it eventually, but I don't think he is going to extend himself to do it.
 

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nehmeth said:
Sundaymorningguy said:
Hahahaha, I think Novak wants a FO title and the Olympic gold more than he wants a Cincy title. Nobody remembers the Cincy winner.

Completely agree.

In fairness to the Cincinnati tournament, the value in winning means that he has won every Masters 1000 event at least once. No one has done that before. So while the FO and Gold medal hold greater significance, winning Cincy would be a career milestone of its own.

I think Lendl's won all available Masters when he played, but with changes made after he retired it's just a different 9 of 9! :angel: :dodgy: :p
 

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It would be pretty impressive if Novak wins RG, the Olympics, and Cincinnati, becoming the only player to hold every significant title in the last 25+ years since the ATP tour consolidated in 1990. Might as well throw in the Calendar Slam while he's at it.
 

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El Dude said:
It would be pretty impressive if Novak wins RG, the Olympics, and Cincinnati, becoming the only player to hold every significant title in the last 25+ years since the ATP tour consolidated in 1990. Might as well throw in the Calendar Slam while he's at it.

It would be nice, but I'll have to wait until he takes Paris before musing about that kind of greatness! :angel: :dodgy: :p
 

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Djoke is merely showing good taste by not wanting to win that ugly vase at Cincy. It is an absolute eyesore.
 

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Sundaymorningguy said:
Hahahaha, I think Novak wants a FO title and the Olympic gold more than he wants a Cincy title. Nobody remembers the Cincy winner.

Agree with you Cincy isn't an important thing, a N°1 must have a gold medal in his pocket
 

Front242

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Winning all the masters would be much more historic than winning Olympic gold seeing as no player yet has done the former.
 

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isabelle said:
Sundaymorningguy said:
Hahahaha, I think Novak wants a FO title and the Olympic gold more than he wants a Cincy title. Nobody remembers the Cincy winner.

Agree with you Cincy isn't an important thing, a N°1 must have a gold medal in his pocket

This doesn't make any sense. Of those playing from 1984, when tennis returned to the Olympics, here is who has gold and who doesn't:

Gold: Stefan Edberg, Miroslav Mecir, Marc Rosset, Andre Agassi, Yevgeny Kafelnikov, Nicolas Massu, Rafael Nadal, Andy Murrya

No Gold: Jimmy Connors, John McEnroe, Ivan Lendl, Boris Becker, Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic (so far)
 

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El Dude said:
isabelle said:
Sundaymorningguy said:
Hahahaha, I think Novak wants a FO title and the Olympic gold more than he wants a Cincy title. Nobody remembers the Cincy winner.

Agree with you Cincy isn't an important thing, a N°1 must have a gold medal in his pocket

This doesn't make any sense. Of those playing from 1984, when tennis returned to the Olympics, here is who has gold and who doesn't:

Gold: Stefan Edberg, Miroslav Mecir, Marc Rosset, Andre Agassi, Yevgeny Kafelnikov, Nicolas Massu, Rafael Nadal, Andy Murrya

No Gold: Jimmy Connors, John McEnroe, Ivan Lendl, Boris Becker, Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic (so far)

But Olympic Gold has grown in stature over that time. Even in 2004 it didn't really mean too much, but since then it has become something that all the top players want really badly. If the Olympics had meant as much in 2004 as it does now, Roger would have won it in 2004 I'm sure. So whilst players in their prime before now are not expected to have an Olympic Gold in their resume, players in their prime now and going forward will see it as an important piece of their cv.

We can draw an almost identical analogy with the AO. For a long time it didn't really mean much cause not all the top players played it. But now all the top players do play it and really want to win it. Should it be considered any less of an achievement to win the AO now because it used to be that not all the top players played it? I don't think so. Players such as McEnroe and Borg didn't win the AO cause in their day it wasn't a priority. But does that mean that Novak's success at the AO now, against all the best players in the world, is less of an achievement? No, it does not, as that is clearly illogical.

The same is true with the Olympics. For a long time it didn't really mean much cause not all the top players played it, and it wasn't a top priority for most of them. But now all the top players do play it, and want to win it badly. Should it be considered any less of an achievement to win the Olympics now because it used to be that not all the top players played it? I don't think so.

I think some people need to catch up - the Olympics is a big deal now. It didn't used to be, but it is now.

Murray still says he regards it as his proudest achievement, above his Grand Slams. Del Potro said his Olympic bronze meant more to him than his USO title, because he was playing for his country. And he got the bronze! McEnroe, Lendl, Becker and others have all called the Olympics a 'major'. These are extreme views, but I regard the Olympics as the fifth biggest prize in tennis these days. I mean, if you asked any player: 'Would you rather win the WTFs or be Olympic champion?', I'm sure they'd all say Olympic Champion. I certainly would. In terms of gaining 'sporting immortality' and being remembered, it beats the WTFs. (But of course, as I say, this only applies to players who've been in their prime since it's become more prestigious, so it's no dent at all on Roger's record that he doesn't have it.)
 

nehmeth

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El Dude said:
It would be pretty impressive if Novak wins RG, the Olympics, and Cincinnati, becoming the only player to hold every significant title in the last 25+ years since the ATP tour consolidated in 1990. Might as well throw in the Calendar Slam while he's at it.

For me? I'd pass on the Olympics. Brasil is a mess, bad. Mrzzz probably could tell us more. I don't even know if they'll be ready on time. But I do appreciate how Nole values the Olympics so...

It would be nice to see him get the job done at RG; then he'll hold all the titles. Gravy would be Wimbo and the USO. Cinci can wait until next year. :-/