Do we have a Big 4 now?

[DarthFed]

It's a big 3 right now. Federer has been irrelevant the last 12 months and figures to only feature every once in awhile for the rest of his career. The rest of this discussion is silly, why compare Murray's level of play to guys 20+ years ago. Of course he is a better player (different racquets, nutrition, etc). 20 years from now guess what...people will be saying the #1 player is a hell of a lot better than Fed, Nadal, Djoker, etc. and chances are they'll be right.

Murray is a great player and should have been acknowledged as such after the USO last year. It will be interesting to see where he and Djokovic go from here. Djokovic has been crazy tough for most of the past 3 years but he went down without a whimper today in a GS final and generally has been poor against the other big boys the last year and a half. USO is going to be huge. This one was always going to be bigger for Murray and I think the USO is going to be biggest for Djokovic and Federer.

---

Yep, There is no denying.. Andy is bigtime now. Just like LBJ(basketball), he has to be considered as one of the top tennis players in the World. Now that he has his history, its time the all of them except Fed to continue to chase greatness(Federer has already achieve it). IMO

I wouldn't compare Murray to LBJ anytime soon AP, nor any tennis player at the moment...but different sport anyways.

 

[the AntiPusher]

It's a big 3 right now. Federer has been irrelevant the last 12 months and figures to only feature every once in awhile for the rest of his career. The rest of this discussion is silly, why compare Murray's level of play to guys 20+ years ago. Of course he is a better player (different racquets, nutrition, etc). 20 years from now guess what...people will be saying the #1 player is a hell of a lot better than Fed, Nadal, Djoker, etc. and chances are they'll be right.

Murray is a great player and should have been acknowledged as such after the USO last year. It will be interesting to see where he and Djokovic go from here. Djokovic has been crazy tough for most of the past 3 years but he went down without a whimper today in a GS final and generally has been poor against the other big boys the last year and a half. USO is going to be huge. This one was always going to be bigger for Murray and I think the USO is going to be biggest for Djokovic and Federer.

---

Yep, There is no denying.. Andy is bigtime now. Just like LBJ(basketball), he has to be considered as one of the top tennis players in the World. Now that he has his history, its time the all of them except Fed to continue to chase greatness(Federer has already achieve it). IMO

I wouldn't compare Murray to LBJ anytime soon AP, nor any tennis player at the moment...but different sport anyways.

---

DarthFed, I disagree. LBJ and Murray are twins as for as the expectations that is upon these two athletes is greater than anyone else in their generations. LBJ has the entire weight and promise of the NBA. Murray had the pressure of an entire country to win the most World's prestigious tennis tournament.

 

[DarthFed]

It's a big 3 right now. Federer has been irrelevant the last 12 months and figures to only feature every once in awhile for the rest of his career. The rest of this discussion is silly, why compare Murray's level of play to guys 20+ years ago. Of course he is a better player (different racquets, nutrition, etc). 20 years from now guess what...people will be saying the #1 player is a hell of a lot better than Fed, Nadal, Djoker, etc. and chances are they'll be right.

Murray is a great player and should have been acknowledged as such after the USO last year. It will be interesting to see where he and Djokovic go from here. Djokovic has been crazy tough for most of the past 3 years but he went down without a whimper today in a GS final and generally has been poor against the other big boys the last year and a half. USO is going to be huge. This one was always going to be bigger for Murray and I think the USO is going to be biggest for Djokovic and Federer.

---

Yep, There is no denying.. Andy is bigtime now. Just like LBJ(basketball), he has to be considered as one of the top tennis players in the World. Now that he has his history, its time the all of them except Fed to continue to chase greatness(Federer has already achieve it). IMO

I wouldn't compare Murray to LBJ anytime soon AP, nor any tennis player at the moment...but different sport anyways.

---

DarthFed, I disagree. LBJ and Murray are twins as for as the expectations that is upon these two athletes is greater than anyone else in their generations. LBJ has the entire weight and promise of the NBA. Murray had the pressure of an entire country to win the most World's prestigious tennis tournament.

---

The only similarity is that they had multiple bad failures on the big stage before they broke through. But different sports as there is only 1 big tournament in the NBA after an 82 game season. Tennis has many more chances throughout the year. Also the pressure Murray is under every Wimbledon is way more than 1 player on an NBA team is feeling during the playoffs where it is best of 7. And finally, Murray is not the best player in tennis just yet whereas Lebron is better than KD by a country mile. That was the main reason I said you can't compare them.

 

[Riotbeard]

Andy definitely proved something today. he is currently a great player. I am with Kieran, wait and see on the legacy. As far as the ahistorical arguments that he is better than more accomplished players from previous eras already, I don't buy it. He has to accomplish more. If modern fitness and groundstrokes are the mark of greatness you could argue that Berdych is a better player than mac. They were different games, and that type of contextless discussion is silly.

 

[the AntiPusher]

It's a big 3 right now. Federer has been irrelevant the last 12 months and figures to only feature every once in awhile for the rest of his career. The rest of this discussion is silly, why compare Murray's level of play to guys 20+ years ago. Of course he is a better player (different racquets, nutrition, etc). 20 years from now guess what...people will be saying the #1 player is a hell of a lot better than Fed, Nadal, Djoker, etc. and chances are they'll be right.

Murray is a great player and should have been acknowledged as such after the USO last year. It will be interesting to see where he and Djokovic go from here. Djokovic has been crazy tough for most of the past 3 years but he went down without a whimper today in a GS final and generally has been poor against the other big boys the last year and a half. USO is going to be huge. This one was always going to be bigger for Murray and I think the USO is going to be biggest for Djokovic and Federer.

---

Yep, There is no denying.. Andy is bigtime now. Just like LBJ(basketball), he has to be considered as one of the top tennis players in the World. Now that he has his history, its time the all of them except Fed to continue to chase greatness(Federer has already achieve it). IMO

I wouldn't compare Murray to LBJ anytime soon AP, nor any tennis player at the moment...but different sport anyways.

---

DarthFed, I disagree. LBJ and Murray are twins as for as the expectations that is upon these two athletes is greater than anyone else in their generations. LBJ has the entire weight and promise of the NBA. Murray had the pressure of an entire country to win the most World's prestigious tennis tournament.

---

The only similarity is that they had multiple bad failures on the big stage before they broke through. But different sports as there is only 1 big tournament in the NBA after an 82 game season. Tennis has many more chances throughout the year. Also the pressure Murray is under every Wimbledon is way more than 1 player on an NBA team is feeling during the playoffs where it is best of 7. And finally, Murray is not the best player in tennis just yet whereas Lebron is better than KD by a country mile. That was the main reason I said you can't compare them.

---

Nope.. Darth Fed.. there isn't going to be the enormous pressure on Murray to win next year.. Hell, the pressure is off his back for good and probably shifts to the ladies tour for a local champion. As for Lebron, yes he is the best player for now but if he doesn't win it again, he has 2 NBA titles and Murray has an Wimbledon championship that no one can take away from these two players. It was the pressure I was comparing not the talent level of the two individuals.

 

[DarthFed]

It's a big 3 right now. Federer has been irrelevant the last 12 months and figures to only feature every once in awhile for the rest of his career. The rest of this discussion is silly, why compare Murray's level of play to guys 20+ years ago. Of course he is a better player (different racquets, nutrition, etc). 20 years from now guess what...people will be saying the #1 player is a hell of a lot better than Fed, Nadal, Djoker, etc. and chances are they'll be right.

Murray is a great player and should have been acknowledged as such after the USO last year. It will be interesting to see where he and Djokovic go from here. Djokovic has been crazy tough for most of the past 3 years but he went down without a whimper today in a GS final and generally has been poor against the other big boys the last year and a half. USO is going to be huge. This one was always going to be bigger for Murray and I think the USO is going to be biggest for Djokovic and Federer.

---

Yep, There is no denying.. Andy is bigtime now. Just like LBJ(basketball), he has to be considered as one of the top tennis players in the World. Now that he has his history, its time the all of them except Fed to continue to chase greatness(Federer has already achieve it). IMO

I wouldn't compare Murray to LBJ anytime soon AP, nor any tennis player at the moment...but different sport anyways.

---

DarthFed, I disagree. LBJ and Murray are twins as for as the expectations that is upon these two athletes is greater than anyone else in their generations. LBJ has the entire weight and promise of the NBA. Murray had the pressure of an entire country to win the most World's prestigious tennis tournament.

---

The only similarity is that they had multiple bad failures on the big stage before they broke through. But different sports as there is only 1 big tournament in the NBA after an 82 game season. Tennis has many more chances throughout the year. Also the pressure Murray is under every Wimbledon is way more than 1 player on an NBA team is feeling during the playoffs where it is best of 7. And finally, Murray is not the best player in tennis just yet whereas Lebron is better than KD by a country mile. That was the main reason I said you can't compare them.

---

Nope.. Darth Fed.. there isn't going to be the enormous pressure on Murray to win next year.. Hell, the pressure is off his back for good and probably shifts to the ladies tour for a local champion. As for Lebron, yes he is the best player for now but if he doesn't win it again, he has 2 NBA titles and Murray has an Wimbledon championship that no one can take away from these two players. It was the pressure I was comparing not the talent level of the two individuals.

---

I see. I just think it is different kinds of pressure. I think Murray will always feel pressure at Wimbledon that is different than he feels at any other slam, actually different than any elite player feels at any of the slams. Murray won't feel as much pressure now that he won it but he will still feel a lot of pressure every year he plays there. Lebron is already chasing history, trying to build a legacy comparable to the legends before him. That is a different kind of pressure.

 

[the AntiPusher]

It's a big 3 right now. Federer has been irrelevant the last 12 months and figures to only feature every once in awhile for the rest of his career. The rest of this discussion is silly, why compare Murray's level of play to guys 20+ years ago. Of course he is a better player (different racquets, nutrition, etc). 20 years from now guess what...people will be saying the #1 player is a hell of a lot better than Fed, Nadal, Djoker, etc. and chances are they'll be right.

Murray is a great player and should have been acknowledged as such after the USO last year. It will be interesting to see where he and Djokovic go from here. Djokovic has been crazy tough for most of the past 3 years but he went down without a whimper today in a GS final and generally has been poor against the other big boys the last year and a half. USO is going to be huge. This one was always going to be bigger for Murray and I think the USO is going to be biggest for Djokovic and Federer.

---

I wouldn't compare Murray to LBJ anytime soon AP, nor any tennis player at the moment...but different sport anyways.

---

DarthFed, I disagree. LBJ and Murray are twins as for as the expectations that is upon these two athletes is greater than anyone else in their generations. LBJ has the entire weight and promise of the NBA. Murray had the pressure of an entire country to win the most World's prestigious tennis tournament.

---

The only similarity is that they had multiple bad failures on the big stage before they broke through. But different sports as there is only 1 big tournament in the NBA after an 82 game season. Tennis has many more chances throughout the year. Also the pressure Murray is under every Wimbledon is way more than 1 player on an NBA team is feeling during the playoffs where it is best of 7. And finally, Murray is not the best player in tennis just yet whereas Lebron is better than KD by a country mile. That was the main reason I said you can't compare them.

---

Nope.. Darth Fed.. there isn't going to be the enormous pressure on Murray to win next year.. Hell, the pressure is off his back for good and probably shifts to the ladies tour for a local champion. As for Lebron, yes he is the best player for now but if he doesn't win it again, he has 2 NBA titles and Murray has an Wimbledon championship that no one can take away from these two players. It was the pressure I was comparing not the talent level of the two individuals.

---

I see. I just think it is different kinds of pressure. I think Murray will always feel pressure at Wimbledon that is different than he feels at any other slam, actually different than any elite player feels at any of the slams. Murray won't feel as much pressure now that he won it but he will still feel a lot of pressure every year he plays there. Lebron is already chasing history, trying to build a legacy comparable to the legends before him. That is a different kind of pressure.

---

And you know this, Man!:clap

 

[shawnbm]

The answer to the OP is an emphatic--YES!!!

 

[kskate2]

Murray and Novak have played the final of the last 4 slams they entered (not including the Olympics). Andy winning 2 and Novak winning one. Andy is definitely in the big 4 conversation now.

EDIT:
No one caught my mistake. Only Andy has been in the final of the last 4 slams he played. Novak came up short at Wimby 12 and RG this year. So he would actually be 3/5 while Andy is 4/4.

 

[Moxie]

Murray and Novak have played the final of the last 4 slams they entered (not including the Olympics). Andy winning 2 and Novak winning one. Andy is definitely in the big 4 conversation now.

EDIT:
No one caught my mistake. Only Andy has been in the final of the last 4 slams he played. Novak came up short at Wimby 12 and RG this year. So he would actually be 3/5 while Andy is 4/4.

Good point, K. TBH, I really thought Murray has always been Big 4, since he joined the party and never left it. I guess we're talking about the REALLY Big 4 now, meaning record books. With the British public behind him, the press (hopefully, at least) off his back, and Lendl in his corner, I think Murray is has more big titles in his future.

 

[Andrew William]

Anyone that wins multiple Grand Slams is pretty Big in my book.

 

[reddy]

Big 4 in terms of contending for titles? Definitely yes.
Big 4 in terms of accomplishments, global recognition/popularity? Murray is getting there but no quite there yet.

I always wonder why Murray plays the lightest schedule of all top 20 players. It might be the back issues or prioritizing slams or whatever the reason is, given his light schedule and less than stellar clay season performance, he denies himself reasonable chance to get to #1 unless he does exceptionally well. I think once he achieves world #1 and/or another slam, Murray will be on level terms with the other three.

 

[coban]

Or a 3 + 1?

I'd say Muzza has become the best player on the planet at the moment. Holds 2 slams and looks like he's gaining, whereas Fedal are waning and Novak isn't 2011 anymore. He's brittle at times and could be overtaken this year.

But to his credit, he's a great champ too.

So no more of this 3+1 nonsense, right?

What is his best results on Clay?

I doubt i'll ever concede Murray to be the best player on the planet unless he gets some red (blue?) titles.

 

[Kieran]

Well, okay, but who wins on clay? Nadal, then the others suck up the scraps.

But at which other slam would we easily dismiss Murray? None of them. He has a sticky one coming up, trying to defend his US Open crown, but would you be surprised if he did it? I don't think anyone would. He also will have a great shot at Oz, so clearly he's up there with the others...

 

[Riotbeard]

Well, okay, but who wins on clay? Nadal, then the others suck up the scraps.

But at which other slam would we easily dismiss Murray? None of them. He has a sticky one coming up, trying to defend his US Open crown, but would you be surprised if he did it? I don't think anyone would. He also will have a great shot at Oz, so clearly he's up there with the others...

That's not really accurate. Murray is no where near djokovic or fed in terms of clay accomplishments. Undoubtably it's tough to get clay title with rafa around, but clearly murray is not in the same clay league novak or federer.

 

[Kieran]

Well, okay, but who wins on clay? Nadal, then the others suck up the scraps.

But at which other slam would we easily dismiss Murray? None of them. He has a sticky one coming up, trying to defend his US Open crown, but would you be surprised if he did it? I don't think anyone would. He also will have a great shot at Oz, so clearly he's up there with the others...

That's not really accurate. Murray is no where near djokovic or fed in terms of clay accomplishments. Undoubtably it's tough to get clay title with rafa around, but clearly murray is not in the same clay league novak or federer.

Absolutely, but set against, that, you can't use clay against Murray to exclude him from a Big 4.. On any surface he's as much a threat as Novak or Federer, and who knows on clay? Could be Murray who takes down Nadal in a few years time...

 

[Riotbeard]

Well, okay, but who wins on clay? Nadal, then the others suck up the scraps.

But at which other slam would we easily dismiss Murray? None of them. He has a sticky one coming up, trying to defend his US Open crown, but would you be surprised if he did it? I don't think anyone would. He also will have a great shot at Oz, so clearly he's up there with the others...

That's not really accurate. Murray is no where near djokovic or fed in terms of clay accomplishments. Undoubtably it's tough to get clay title with rafa around, but clearly murray is not in the same clay league novak or federer.

Absolutely, but set against, that, you can't use clay against Murray to exclude him from a Big 4.. On any surface he's as much a threat as Novak or Federer, and who knows on clay? Could be Murray who takes down Nadal in a few years time...

In the general sentement I agree, but on clay, he has to win a match against a serious player and make it to a final to be considered a serious competitor, until then, he behind a lot of other people on that surface for me.

 

[Moxie]

I know Murray pulled out of RG with a back issue, but does it occur to anyone that it also might have been a smart move to protect his Wimbledon? Point to Lendl.

 

[kskate2]

I thought about it when he pulled out and thought it was the right move at the time. Yes, credit to Lendl.

 

[tented]

I know Murray pulled out of RG with a back issue, but does it occur to anyone that it also might have been a smart move to protect his Wimbledon? Point to Lendl.

Considering Lendl skipped RG once or twice in order to prepare for Wimbledon, it only makes sense he was key in this plan.