Do we have a Big 4 now?

[Kieran]

Nobody said he is greater than Edberg or Becker

HuntingYou said he was greater than Becker and Edberg...

 

[Ricardo]

weak competition? i thought that kind of talk has long expired, weak competition theory is really for idiots who are set to denigrate great players. By that token, let's just devalue the majors won by Becker, Edber, Agassi, Sampras, Courier etc who all didn't play in a era like the current one, where Fed, Nadal, Djoker dominate the sport like never before..... so this is THE TOUGH competition, and their previous eras were all weaker (to different degrees)....

You just called yourself an idiot...

you were the one who endorsed that weak competition idea, don't just get upset because i point that out looks like you can't disagree with HuntingU as he uses the same argument.

meanwhile i never bought into that crap.

 

[huntingyou]

Nobody said he is greater than Edberg or Becker

HuntingYou said he was greater than Becker and Edberg...

ok, better tennis player and will be greater when all it's said and done.

at the moment? Not yet.

 

[Ricardo]

Nobody said he is greater than Edberg or Becker

HuntingYou said he was greater than Becker and Edberg...

No he said he was greater than Courier and Wilander.

 

[Kieran]

Please, over hyping a bit? You know, his matches are still available on youtube.

When did he beat JMac on grass? Exactly!

His grass slam was at the AO, please let's not forget that FACT. He had no chance at Wimbledon; never did.

I do think Wilander had a tough mentality; but most grinders that are successful need to have that tough mentality. I'm sure you are aware Murray has many options in his game. Greater tool set.

Yes, his grass slam was in Australia - and he beat John McEnroe (the reigning W champ at the time) in four sets.

You think they were playing an exhibition? Lendl was in the other semi final. This was big boys tennis. Did you even watch the sport back then?

Mats was great. He proved it time and again.

Stop making silly comparisons...

 

[huntingyou]

weak competition? i thought that kind of talk has long expired, weak competition theory is really for idiots who are set to denigrate great players. By that token, let's just devalue the majors won by Becker, Edber, Agassi, Sampras, Courier etc who all didn't play in a era like the current one, where Fed, Nadal, Djoker dominate the sport like never before..... so this is THE TOUGH competition, and their previous eras were all weaker (to different degrees)....

You just called yourself an idiot...

you were the one who endorsed that weak competition idea, don't just get upset because i point that out looks like you can't disagree with HuntingU as he uses the same argument.

meanwhile i never bought into that crap.

The fact you don't buy it doesn't mean is not real.

Life is full of chaos, nothing ascends in a perfect line but rather peak and valleys seem to be the common pattern in this planet.

It's not different in sports and certainly not in tennis where it's solely dependent on individual performances.

 

[Kieran]

Nobody said he is greater than Edberg or Becker

HuntingYou said he was greater than Becker and Edberg...

No he said he was greater than Courier and Wilander.

I agree with the gist of your argument of Murray being too passive; never the less the guy it's one of the best tennis players I have seen. Certainly better than Courier, Becker, Edberg, Wilander but let me guess; they have more slams.

He said it here...

 

[Ricardo]

For the record: Mats Wilander had seven slams by the age of 23, he beat McEnroe on grass in Australia and Lendl on grass, clay and hards in slams. The chap was no patsy.

And Murray is no Matsy.

Let's not get into too much hype here and celebrate what's before us, instead.

A Big 4.

Including Fedal...

Please, over hyping a bit? You know, his matches are still available on youtube.

When did he beat JMac on grass? Exactly!

His grass slam was at the AO, please let's not forget that FACT. He had no chance at Wimbledon; never did.

I do think Wilander had a tough mentality; but most grinders that are successful need to have that tough mentality. I'm sure you are aware Murray has many options in his game. Greater tool set.

actually i don't agree with your view on Wilander. If you talk about tool set, just look at Lendl. Terrific serve no worse than Murray's, was maybe the best baseliner in his era, could even serve and volley into his way into Wimbledon finals despite that volleying is his weakness, one can say he is no less equipped than Murray yet Wilander beat him in several big events. That guy must have something you can't see just by watching, there must be something he does that troubles his opponents in ways spectator don't know.

 

[huntingyou]

Please, over hyping a bit? You know, his matches are still available on youtube.

When did he beat JMac on grass? Exactly!

His grass slam was at the AO, please let's not forget that FACT. He had no chance at Wimbledon; never did.

I do think Wilander had a tough mentality; but most grinders that are successful need to have that tough mentality. I'm sure you are aware Murray has many options in his game. Greater tool set.

Yes, his grass slam was in Australia - and he beat John McEnroe (the reigning W champ at the time) in four sets.

You think they were playing an exhibition? Lendl was in the other semi final. This was big boys tennis. Did you even watch the sport back then?

Mats was great. He proved it time and again.

Stop making silly comparisons...

What's silly? Tell me how Wilander did at Wimbledon?

There is no comparison, Murray it's a better tennis player.......just yesterday you gave him no chance to beat the world #1 or very little.

I have tried to watch tennis from back in the day but it's too slow, kind of slow motion ping pong with horrendous mechanics and questionable fitness.

I'm not saying Wilander was not a great player, and this came up because you couldn't even call Andy yesterday part of the big 4 and instead used the "best of the rest" cliche.

Anyways, you'll see.

 

[Ricardo]

Nobody said he is greater than Edberg or Becker

HuntingYou said he was greater than Becker and Edberg...

No he said he was greater than Courier and Wilander.

I agree with the gist of your argument of Murray being too passive; never the less the guy it's one of the best tennis players I have seen. Certainly better than Courier, Becker, Edberg, Wilander but let me guess; they have more slams.

He said it here...

greatness is judged by numbers which Murray doesn't have currently, he said 'better' so he would think Murray would beat those guys in their prime..... but he is not 'greater'. 4-6 slams is 'greater' than 2 at any time.

 

[Kieran]

What's silly? Tell me how Wilander did at Wimbledon?



Anyways, you'll see.

"You'll see" is your best answer of the day, in fairness. Asking to see how Mat's medals stack up against Andy and still claiming Andy is better is a bit silly.

But we'll all see...

 

[Ricardo]

Please, over hyping a bit? You know, his matches are still available on youtube.

When did he beat JMac on grass? Exactly!

His grass slam was at the AO, please let's not forget that FACT. He had no chance at Wimbledon; never did.

I do think Wilander had a tough mentality; but most grinders that are successful need to have that tough mentality. I'm sure you are aware Murray has many options in his game. Greater tool set.

Yes, his grass slam was in Australia - and he beat John McEnroe (the reigning W champ at the time) in four sets.

You think they were playing an exhibition? Lendl was in the other semi final. This was big boys tennis. Did you even watch the sport back then?

Mats was great. He proved it time and again.

Stop making silly comparisons...

What's silly? Tell me how Wilander did at Wimbledon?

There is no comparison, Murray it's a better tennis player.......just yesterday you gave him no chance to beat the world #1 or very little.

I have tried to watch tennis from back in the day but it's too slow, kind of slow motion ping pong with horrendous mechanics and questionable fitness.

I'm not saying Wilander was not a great player, and this came up because you couldn't even call Andy yesterday part of the big 4 and instead used the "best of the rest" cliche.

Anyways, you'll see.

actually i am sure those guys would hit bigger and have better mechanics if they grew up in this era, back then what was available to them was very different.

 

[huntingyou]

He said it here...

Got your attention? :laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing

I know your weakness, that's all pal. Murray will surpass Courier and Wilander, of that I feel confident. Becker and Edberg? That's depends. I do feel he is a better tennis player, actually I said he is one of the best tennis player I have seen. He is up there with the Agassis and Lendl and Novak and Jmac of the world....I'm not confident he will have enough time to surpass them since he is competing against Novak as we speak.

 

[Ricardo]

What's silly? Tell me how Wilander did at Wimbledon?



Anyways, you'll see.

"You'll see" is your best answer of the day, in fairness. Asking to see how Mat's medals stack up against Andy and still claiming Andy is better is a bit silly.

But we'll all see...

he can actually make it an argument if it's based on weak competition.... see why i never endorse that kind of idea?

it's always used to denigrate some great players.

 

[huntingyou]

actually i am sure those guys would hit bigger and have better mechanics if they grew up in this era, back then what was available to them was very different.

To be honest, I thought Lendl hit the ball pretty efficient....his forehand was like a foretold of things to come.

Edberg had a horrible forehand in the other hand, his volleys though were perhaps the best we have seen? Becker was just "weird". A lot of power though. Wilander had high tennis IQ and I'm not denying his tennis greatness but Kerian like always love devalue todays's players until they prove him wrong. Unless it's Rafa of course. Yesterday, he couldn't bare himself to call Andy great...well he is a great player; anybody watching this guy since 2007 know that guy it's special. That's my point.

 

[Ricardo]

actually i am sure those guys would hit bigger and have better mechanics if they grew up in this era, back then what was available to them was very different.

To be honest, I thought Lendl hit the ball pretty efficient....his forehand was like a foretold of things to come.

Edberg had a horrible forehand in the other hand, his volleys though were perhaps the best we have seen? Becker was just "weird". A lot of power though. Wilander had high tennis IQ and I'm not denying his tennis greatness but Kerian like always love devalue todays's players until they prove him wrong. Unless it's Rafa of course. Yesterday, he couldn't bare himself to call Andy great...well he is a great player; anybody watching this guy since 2007 know that guy it's special. That's my point.

you know he is very stuck in the past era, always has been.

 

[Kieran]

What's silly? Tell me how Wilander did at Wimbledon?



Anyways, you'll see.

"You'll see" is your best answer of the day, in fairness. Asking to see how Mat's medals stack up against Andy and still claiming Andy is better is a bit silly.

But we'll all see...

he can actually make it an argument if it's based on weak competition.... see why i never endorse that kind of idea?

it's always used to denigrate some great players.

You just used it above...

 

[huntingyou]

I'm out to play Skyrim

I picked Novak to win but feel happy that Murray won. I always enjoy talking with Kieran because we are either all in on one topic or totally against in other topics.

I'm still all in on Rafa getting back to #1, we need a strong UO......we can do this Kieran!

 

[Kieran]

To be honest, I thought Lendl hit the ball pretty efficient....his forehand was like a foretold of things to come.

Edberg had a horrible forehand in the other hand, his volleys though were perhaps the best we have seen? Becker was just "weird". A lot of power though. Wilander had high tennis IQ and I'm not denying his tennis greatness but Kerian like always love devalue todays's players until they prove him wrong. Unless it's Rafa of course. Yesterday, he couldn't bare himself to call Andy great...well he is a great player; anybody watching this guy since 2007 know that guy it's special. That's my point.

You've back pedalled nicely, hunting, and I agree: we'll see. But if Andy stopped right now? No, obviously he's not a great player. But he's young and he's a work in progress and he's progressing nicely.

Don't give him anything he hasn't earned yet. I remember peeps here predicting all sorts of stuff. Yes, I predict conservatively but that's because we never know. Going into today, Andy had a lot of questions to answer, and he answered them.

But only during the match, not before it...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yep, There is no denying.. Andy is bigtime now. Just like LBJ(basketball), he has to be considered as one of the top tennis players in the World. Now that he has his history, its time the all of them except Fed to continue to chase greatness(Federer has already achieve it). IMO