Djokovic's popularity outside North America, Western Europe, Australia

[mrzz]

@Nekro, sorry, but the poll you posted simply has no mention to WTF. If the question was:

"what is more important, GS or WTF?"

Then, ok, the poll would be relevant data. But that wasn´t the question, as I guess no one disputes that. Thing is that this is not a "winners take all" situation, you speak as if you have the GS in one layer, and all the other tournaments, from challengers to the WTF, stacked together in another. They´re not.

Surely it goes down to taste, but WTF is important. It can give you 1500 points, to begin with. It is played once a year with the top 8 guys (no easy draws then) and gives you tons of money and a good chance for year end#1 (that is important, right?), if you´re in the conversation. I can not see how this is not "important". Not the most important, sure, but important still.

I surely agree that the surface factor never helped Nadal, even if (at least in my eyes) the courts are not playing fast since, what, 2014? We hear this kind of thing for so long that sometimes I which they would held it on his academy one year so we can move the conversation forward.

 

[Nekro]

bwahahaha! I know that forum well, and I used to post on there years ago. First of all the sample population is 36 (statistics much?), secondly as with most forums it's had it's share of Fedal wars. Fake news buddy

@Nekro, sorry, but the poll you posted simply has no mention to WTF. If the question was:

"what is more important, GS or WTF?"

Then, ok, the poll would be relevant data. But that wasn´t the question, as I guess no one disputes that. Thing is that this is not a "winners take all" situation, you speak as if you have the GS in one layer, and all the other tournaments, from challengers to the WTF, stacked together in another. They´re not.

Surely it goes down to taste, but WTF is important. It can give you 1500 points, to begin with. It is played once a year with the top 8 guys (no easy draws then) and gives you tons of money and a good chance for year end#1 (that is important, right?), if you´re in the conversation. I can not see how this is not "important". Not the most important, sure, but important still.

I surely agree that the surface factor never helped Nadal, even if (at least in my eyes) the courts are not playing fast since, what, 2014? We hear this kind of thing for so long that sometimes I which they would held it on his academy one year so we can move the conversation forward.

The poll i posted confirms people measure champs by GS count. That's the point i wanted to support there, what you're saying mrzz is cool but i wasn't stressing or caring about thouse points at all. Federberg is trying to say the poll is not good because there were few participants, well, it's the biggest poll i know of on the subject and the vast majority of the posters voted for GS count. Being the biggest poll on the subject on the net it's very relevant actually. He's stating stuff but he doesn't even have a half as good poll to support it.

And it's not just the poll, no matter who i talk to, he/she measures the champs by GS counts. Look at Rafa fans for example. Their interest would be to stress the importance of the H2H for example. But still most of them agree that the GS count is most important. Just look at Mimi, she's still mourning the new 18-14 GS count. When you're playing in the club all the players measure champs by GS count. Those who try to deny that fact are usually couch tennis nerds who haven't moved in the real tennis community out there.

I surely agree that the surface factor never helped Nadal, even if (at least in my eyes) the courts are not playing fast since, what, 2014? We hear this kind of thing for so long that sometimes I which they would held it on his academy one year so we can move the conversation forward.

It's not just the surface, it's the fact that it's an indoor tourney, the temperature is at least as important here. In heat the pressure in the ball is higher, thus the speed and the bounce are higher too. Indoor everything's the opposite. Many people forget this when it comes to the WTF.

 

[Federberg]

The poll i posted confirms people measure champs by GS count. That's the point i wanted to support there, what you're saying mrzz is cool but i wasn't stressing or caring about thouse points at all. Federberg is trying to say the poll is not good because there were few participants, well, it's the biggest poll i know of on the subject and the vast majority of the posters voted for GS count. Being the biggest poll on the subject on the net it's very relevant actually. He's stating stuff but he doesn't even have a half as good poll to support it.

And it's not just the poll, no matter who i talk to, he/she measures the champs by GS counts. Look at Rafa fans for example. Their interest would be to stress the importance of the H2H for example. But still most of them agree that the GS count is most important. Just look at Mimi, she's still mourning the new 18-14 GS count. When you're playing in the club all the players measure champs by GS count. Those who try to deny that fact are usually couch tennis nerds who haven't moved in the real tennis community out there.

It's not just the surface, it's the fact that it's an indoor tourney, the temperature is at least as important here. In heat the pressure in the ball is higher, thus the speed and the bounce are higher too. Indoor everything's the opposite. Many people forget this when it comes to the WTF.

I don't have to have a poll. I wasn't the one who said "Nobody cares about the WTF." Even your poll doesn't agree with you. I don't believe anyone on these boards has ever said slams weren't the most important in assessing achievement. The simple point is that after slams the WTF is next in line. We have had countless discussions on this forum and on other forums that most of us on here migrated from, there is a clear consensus on this. But even ignoring forums, tennis pros, pundits all say the same. Where you start declaring your view as a fact is somewhat amusing, but it doesn't really wash mate, sorry...

 

[Nekro]

I don't have to have a poll. I wasn't the one who said "Nobody cares about the WTF." Even your poll doesn't agree with you. I don't believe anyone on these boards has ever said slams weren't the most important in assessing achievement. The simple point is that after slams the WTF is next in line. We have had countless discussions on this forum and on other forums that most of us on here migrated from, there is a clear consensus on this. But even ignoring forums, tennis pros, pundits all say the same. Where you start declaring your view as a fact is somewhat amusing, but it doesn't really wash mate, sorry...

Everybody knows i didn't mean that literally. For nitpickers: My point was that GS count is leading so much that WTF is insignificant in the GOAT debate or anything BIG people care about in tennis. All the tennis players i know give 0 fs about the WTF. Maybe there are some out there who do i just don't know them lol

I knew people would pop up saying they care about it lol There's Carol, Moxie, they said they care about it it's fine.

I didn't expect people would nitpick my phrasing and pretend not to get my point but whatever.....

 

[Federberg]

Everybody knows i didn't mean that literally. For nitpickers: My point was that GS count is leading so much that WTF is insignificant in the GOAT debate or anything BIG people care about in tennis. All the tennis players i know give 0 fs about the WTF. Maybe there are some out there who do i just don't know them lol

I knew people would pop up saying they care about it lol There's Carol, Moxie, they said they care about it it's fine.

I didn't expect people would nitpick my phrasing and pretend not to get my point but whatever.....

Clearly none of us got your point. I'll take your word that's what you meant and you're not retreating now

 

[Federberg]

Everybody knows i didn't mean that literally. For nitpickers: My point was that GS count is leading so much that WTF is insignificant in the GOAT debate or anything BIG people care about in tennis. All the tennis players i know give 0 fs about the WTF. Maybe there are some out there who do i just don't know them lol

I knew people would pop up saying they care about it lol There's Carol, Moxie, they said they care about it it's fine.

I didn't expect people would nitpick my phrasing and pretend not to get my point but whatever.....

And by the way... you ask any tennis player about their aspirations at the start of the year, they'll say to win a slam and to qualify for the WTF. Now if you're going to represent that they just want to qualify for the WTF and not win then you'll make everyone on here laugh

 

[Nekro]

Clearly none of us got your point. I'll take your word that's what you meant and you're not retreating now

Retreating? I've been stressing the importance of the GS count all my life, all my tennis friends give zero f about the WTF is it clear? lol I don't care what some mug players say about the WTF, all the big guys are going for the GS.

WTF is a junk tourney, a good description for you: The WTF is basically a big pile of bonus money for the 8 players who qualify, and those guys have already won a ton of money. There are a lot of points up for grabs too, often the year-end #1 ranking will be in play, which makes it important at least for the top 2 players. But I would say that most players don't take it all that seriously. If a player sees a chance to jump up to the #4 spot or the #2 spot before the Australian Open, they might give it a bit more effort.

 

[Obsi]

I thought Federberg's reply was good, and he goes to it. But if you want one, I'd just say you were wrong.

You were wrong when you said nobody is especially missing Djokovic.

 

[Moxie]

You were wrong when you said nobody is especially missing Djokovic.

Then I'd say we're even.

 

[Moxie]

A propos of this conversation, Tennis Channel put up this graphic today of social media followers by player:

• Djokovic: Twitter - 7 million, Facebook - 7.2 million
• Federer: Twitter - 7 million, Facebook - 14.2 million
• Murray: Twitter - 3.7 million, Facebook - 3.8 million
• Nadal: Twitter - 12.1 million, Facebook - 14.7 million
• Sharapova: Twitter - 5.6 million, Facebook - 15.4 million
• S. Williams: Twitter - 8.1 million, Facebook - 5.2 million

​

 

[shawnbm]

Wow!!! I had no idea that many millions followed these players.

 

[Obsi]

A propos of this conversation, Tennis Channel put up this graphic today of social media followers by player:

• Djokovic: Twitter - 7 million, Facebook - 7.2 million
• Federer: Twitter - 7 million, Facebook - 14.2 million
• Murray: Twitter - 3.7 million, Facebook - 3.8 million
• Nadal: Twitter - 12.1 million, Facebook - 14.7 million
• Sharapova: Twitter - 5.6 million, Facebook - 15.4 million
• S. Williams: Twitter - 8.1 million, Facebook - 5.2 million

​

It should be noted that China's government banned Facebook and Twitter. You admitted Djokovic is more popular than Nadal in China and this country has population of over 1.381 billion.

 

[Moxie]

It should be noted that China's government banned Facebook and Twitter. You admitted Djokovic is more popular than Nadal in China and this country has population of over 1.381 billion.

Sure, that could explain the discrepancy, or somewhat. Since Li Na, tennis has become wildly popular in China. Though you'd have to think all of the numbers would go up if Chinese fans were able to participate in Twitter and FB.

 

[Obsi]

Though you'd have to think all of the numbers would go up if Chinese fans were able to participate in Twitter and FB.

Yes, but Djokovic's number would go up more than Nadal's.

 

[Moxie]

Yes, but Djokovic's number would go up more than Nadal's.

And Roger's, you might say, or Andy's. The amount is speculation. But you do see a big social media presence for Rafa, in real numbers. I'm not trying to fight you on this. I posted the numbers because we were talking about that, specifically.

 

[Obsi]

The amount is speculation.

Of course. However, the fact that you, a Nadal fan, admit Novak is more popular than Rafa in China, says a lot about this speculation.

But you do see a big social media presence for Rafa, in real numbers.

Those real numbers exclude China's enormous population.

 

[Moxie]

Of course. However, the fact that you, a Nadal fan, admit Novak is more popular than Rafa in China, says a lot about this speculation.



Those real numbers exclude China's enormous population.

You have one bit between your teeth. No comment on any other thread? No opinion about how Novak is playing? Can't you expand your horizons beyond the insistence that Novak is, in fact, as popular as Fedal, if only someone would poll Asia effectively? I'd respect your opinion more if you cared to discuss his tennis and not just his popularity.

 

[Obsi]

You have one bit between your teeth. No comment on any other thread? No opinion about how Novak is playing? Can't you expand your horizons beyond the insistence that Novak is, in fact, as popular as Fedal, if only someone would poll Asia effectively? I'd respect your opinion more if you cared to discuss his tennis and not just his popularity.

Since I joined discuss.tennis, I posted 91 messages. The vast majority of those messages have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.