Djokovic's popularity outside North America, Western Europe, Australia

[Obsi]

I don't think most people would say that Djokovic "isn't popular," which is something you've said...

I don't know what most people think. I've stated "it's been said many times that Djokovic lacks popularity compared to Federer and Nadal.". See this link http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/no-one-likes-novak-djokovic-us-open-win-roger-federer

My point about "facts of life" was that Nadal (and Federer) already had huge fan bases when Novak wasn't really in the conversation. Since both are still playing, and given that their fan bases are somewhere between pretty loyal to ridiculously biased, I'm saying that that has left not a great lot of tennis fans for Djokovic to sway into his fan base. You get that, right? However, new tennis fans are made all the time, and certainly that would contribute to the Nole fan base.

You clearly said it's a fact that Federer and Nadal are popular than Djokovic and you still haven't proved it.

As to your other questions: I have no idea how much the majority of crowds in the USA support Djokovic. My question to you would be: compared to whom?

Compared to Fedal.

However, I think my argument is compelling for why Rafa is likely more popular in Latin America than Novak, and, frankly, Roger.

There is a big difference between making a compelling argument that something is "likely" true and "definitely" true. Anyway, this thread isn't about who has more fans but whether Djokovic, relatively speaking, isn't popular.

so you got to admit that Djoker does get the credit he deserves, or even more.

I don't think Djokovic gets credit he deserves in the USA, Western Europe etc.

 

[Moxie]

I don't think these things are completely "provable", given that no one takes polls of tennis fans. Britbox made an effort at quantifying some things. My point about Federer and Nadal is that they had basically divided up the tennis fans between them before Novak came up to what would be his standing and accomplishments in the game. As they're both still playing, I don't believe too many fans have abdicated to Nole. Which means that Djokovic is a bit of an "enemy" to Fedal fans, hence his relative "lack of popularity," if that's your point. To you last though, I do think he "gets the credit he deserves," wherever you might think of. But credit for his talent and accomplishments, and "popularity" aren't the same thing. He's not hard to admire. He's just not easy to love, if you're a fan of Roger or Rafa.

Maybe you've seen this article, but it's germain to the discussion, and very interesting. It's called Novak Djokovic: The Unloved Champion: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/fashion/mens-style/novak-djokovic-how-to-be-a-champion.html?_r=0

 

[Ricardo]

but whether Djokovic, relatively speaking, isn't popular.

relative to Fedal? then it's understandable, any other player no matter how much they win, wouldn't be as popular as Fedal, not as long as they don't retire.

however let's not be like a victim here, Ivan Lendl was never popular no matter what he achieved....makes Novak like Elvis in comparison. The two brats (Connors&Mac) were way more popular, point is it does't matter.

 

[Obsi]

I don't think these things are completely "provable", given that no one takes polls of tennis fans. Britbox made an effort at quantifying some things. My point about Federer and Nadal is that they had basically divided up the tennis fans between them before Novak came up to what would be his standing and accomplishments in the game. As they're both still playing, I don't believe too many fans have abdicated to Nole. Which means that Djokovic is a bit of an "enemy" to Fedal fans, hence his relative "lack of popularity," if that's your point.

As I've already mentioned, it's obvious you said it's a fact that Fedal are more popular than Djokovic. You should think twice before you use the word "fact".

To you last though, I do think he "gets the credit he deserves," wherever you might think of.

I disagree.

relative to Fedal? then it's understandable, any other player no matter how much they win, wouldn't be as popular as Fedal, not as long as they don't retire..

If Federer and Nadal are more popular than Djokovic, it doesn't mean Novak isn't popular relatively speaking.

 

[Moxie]

I'm sure this is too anecdotal to prove anything, but I thought it was germane to this conversation: Numbers 1 & 2 have been dumped out of the last two big tournaments early, and aren't even playing Miami, but Federer and Nadal went far in both the last and are in this one. And both the AO and IW featured a Fedal match. I'm not getting the sense that anyone is especially missing Murray or Djokovic. What does this tell us?

 

[Obsi]

I'm sure this is too anecdotal to prove anything, but I thought it was germane to this conversation: Numbers 1 & 2 have been dumped out of the last two big tournaments early, and aren't even playing Miami, but Federer and Nadal went far in both the last and are in this one. And both the AO and IW featured a Fedal match. I'm not getting the sense that anyone is especially missing Murray or Djokovic. What does this tell us?

I was not getting sense that anyone was especially missing Nadal when he was absent from WTF last year. What does this tell us?

 

[Federberg]

Actually I beg to disagree. The absence of Roger and Rafa was a huge miss. For myself and a lot of people I know who normally go to the O2, we didn't even discuss it. In fact I only really watched the final

 

[Ricardo]

I was not getting sense that anyone was especially missing Nadal when he was absent from WTF last year. What does this tell us?

getting back at Moxie are you? haha. actually being not a Rafa fan myself i want to see him play as he is really a force in any competition.

 

[Mary]

Actually I beg to disagree. The absence of Roger and Rafa was a huge miss. For myself and a lot of people I know who normally go to the O2, we didn't even discuss it. In fact I only really watched the final

I agree, Rafa, Roger and Novak have been the heart of tennis for years. It's good to see Roger in great form again and Rafa looking fit. However I really miss Novak at present and although I am no Murray fan the loss of his form this year is a great disappointment to many.

There are many good players and good matches at present but non that I feel are in the class of Roger, Rafa or Novak.

 

[Obsi]

Moxie, you haven't replied to this:

I was not getting sense that anyone was especially missing Nadal when he was absent from WTF last year. What does this tell us?

 

[Nekro]

I was not getting sense that anyone was especially missing Nadal when he was absent from WTF last year. What does this tell us?

1. Nobody cares about the WTF.

2. Everybody knows Nadal sucks at the WTF. So for all-around tennis fans hes a non-factor at the wtf, for Rafa fans it's a relief he's not playing at the WTF cause they escape another humiliation, most Fed fans hate him to begin with so everybody's happy when Nadal's not at the WTF that nobody cares about to begin with. Maybe Davydenko did when he won it. That was a cool moment in the history of the WTF.

 

[Federberg]

Really? No one cares about the WTF? Perhaps you don't, but most tennis fans I know love it. Personally I've been following it for over 30 years. Speak for yourself

 

[Moxie]

Moxie, you haven't replied to this:

I thought Federberg's reply was good, and he goes to it. But if you want one, I'd just say you were wrong.

 

[Moxie]

Really? No one cares about the WTF? Perhaps you don't, but most tennis fans I know love it. Personally I've been following it for over 30 years. Speak for yourself

Yes, speak for yourself, Nekro. This Rafa fan doesn't want him not to be in it, and he doesn't "suck" at it...he's been in the final twice, if memory serves.

 

[Carol]

I care WTF but unfortunately Rafa has not won yet though I still has the hope that he could do it at least once

 

[Nekro]

Really? No one cares about the WTF? Perhaps you don't, but most tennis fans I know love it. Personally I've been following it for over 30 years. Speak for yourself

Yes, speak for yourself, Nekro. This Rafa fan doesn't want him not to be in it, and he doesn't "suck" at it...he's been in the final twice, if memory serves.

k, i'll be more precise then, as far as the GOAT debate or anything big is concerned nobody cares about the WTF.

Fact: everybody measures champs by GS count.

Yes, small tourneys can be fun to watch, the WTF can be fun to watch but tell me with a straight face you care about it only 30% as much as about one of the GSs

 

[Nekro]

Yes, speak for yourself, Nekro. This Rafa fan doesn't want him not to be in it, and he doesn't "suck" at it...he's been in the final twice, if memory serves.

Yeah, and he sucks there. He's NEVER beaten Federer there. There's textbook suckage there for you.

 

[Federberg]

k, i'll be more precise then, as far as the GOAT debate or anything big is concerned nobody cares about the WTF.

Fact: everybody measures champs by GS count.

Yes, small tourneys can be fun to watch, the WTF can be fun to watch but tell me with a straight face you care about it only 30% as much as about one of the GSs

These facts of yours are just your opinion

 

[Nekro]

These facts of yours are just your opinion

No, it's a fact buddy. look at this poll http://www.menstennisforums.com/2-general-messages/145523-how-do-you-measure-goat.html

GS count is the most important for most of the people. The GS count in that poll won very easily. It's not my opinion, it's the people's opinion.

I proved my point with a poll, if you don't trust the opinion of the people on that board show me any other poll to support what you said

 

[Federberg]

bwahahaha! I know that forum well, and I used to post on there years ago. First of all the sample population is 36 (statistics much?), secondly as with most forums it's had it's share of Fedal wars. Fake news buddy