Djokovic the CVAC Cyborg

[Front242]

So here's the question: if dropping your blood off at a dirty doctor, to have it oxygen-enriched and then reinserted in your body is illegal, why is this kind of oxygen-enrichment legal? Really no snark...I just don't understand.

Indeed and that's where the problem lies. They ban for EPO and yet allow this and it's reportedly twice as effective. That's why it needs to be either banned or investigated extremely thoroughly by WADA. The unfortunate thing is I doubt they can test for this as with Xenon and Argon gas. Djokovic went from having serious issues with cardio and breathing in 2010 and before to being the "fittest" guy on tour thanks to this machine in the space of a few months. Would he be anywhere near as good as he is without it? Probably not. And that makes it worthy of a massive investigation at the top. Sure, he always had the shots (though they've obviously improved too), but he was missing the stamina and recovery till this machine appeared. Doesn't seem right to me that others have to train like animals in the gym day after day and after a gruelling match when others are naturally exhausted, he hops only fresh as a daisy to his next match. And yes, I know people will say it's available to everyone but that's only the case when there's a tournament nearby. Otherwise only the elite can afford to fly to the nearest CVAC to recover and gear themselves up for their next big match, which makes it completely unfair.

 

[Moxie]

I don't think anyone has ever mentioned Novak leaving a tournament in between matches, so I'm not really buying that part of your theory. And I guess you've decided to stop buying the gluten-free solution and more confidence theory as to his greater fitness and health. Why, 5 years later?

 

[Front242]

I don't think anyone has ever mentioned Novak leaving a tournament in between matches, so I'm not really buying that part of your theory. And I guess you've decided to stop buying the gluten-free solution and more confidence theory as to his greater fitness and health. Why, 5 years later?

Gluten free is a big lol. I like Novak but the gluten free nonsense is NOT the reason for his massive increase in stamina, recovery and overall success. You gain confidence from winning matches. He couldn't win as many of the big ones prior to using this and he'd be tired like the next guy after a tough match. Now it doesn't matter how gruelling the last match(es) were as he's fit and fresh as a daisy after hopping into this thing after the tough match and before the next one starts. It's the CVAC and whatever other secrets we haven't heard of. But for now it's the CVAC. His breathing issues and cardio problems were fixed in the shortest amount of time imaginable since he started using this contraption. Even if we're talking legal over the counter supplements, if I'm taking nothing in the gym and some other guy is taking aminos, BCAAS, creatine, nitric oxide, IGF-1 protein, pre-workout, etc, it's clear who'll be lifting more. That's not all confidence and placebo, it's down to the supplements and same with the CVAC. It's the main reason for this new Novak.

Re leaving a tournament between matches, the CVAC was nearby (2 miles away) for this tournament and, yes, he used it after the long match against Simon and before the start of the one with Nishikori so clearly this machine helps A LOT. That article was written before the semi and final also so you can bet he used it and the Nishikori match, before and after the semi and before the final also.

It's all covered here and this is a reliable source http://www.wsj.com/articles/tennis-players-get-an-oxygen-fix-1454023796

 

[Carol]

Gluten free is a big lol. I like Novak but the gluten free nonsense is NOT the reason for his massive increase in stamina, recovery and overall success. You gain confidence from winning matches. He couldn't win as many of the big ones prior to using this and he'd be tired like the next guy after a tough match. Now it doesn't matter how gruelling the last match(es) were as he's fit and fresh as a daisy after hopping into this thing after the tough match and before the next one starts. It's the CVAC and whatever other secrets we haven't heard of. But for now it's the CVAC. His breathing issues and cardio problems were fixed in the shortest amount of time imaginable since he started using this contraption. Even if we're talking legal over the counter supplements, if I'm taking nothing in the gym and some other guy is taking aminos, BCAAS, creatine, nitric oxide, IGF-1 protein, pre-workout, etc, it's clear who'll be lifting more. That's not all confidence and placebo, it's down to the supplements and same with the CVAC. It's the main reason for this new Novak.

Re leaving a tournament between matches, the CVAC was nearby (2 miles away) for this tournament and, yes, he used it after the long match against Simon and before the start of the one with Nishikori so clearly this machine helps A LOT. That article was written before the semi and final also so you can bet he used it and the Nishikori match, before and after the semi and before the final also.

It's all covered here and this is a reliable source http://www.wsj.com/articles/tennis-players-get-an-oxygen-fix-1454023796

Why I can't see the whole article? just a few paragraphs.......
And my question is, is just Novak using that machine? if it's so good ,convenient and advantageously like it seems to be I don't understand why that article and some more that I've read since 2011 are saying that he is the only one using it......odd

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I am a bit confused,it is legal for say Marathon Runners and athletes that train at high altitude to use recovery chambers,is this chamber that Novak is using a updated version of a recovery chamber?

 

[Front242]

I am a bit confused,it is legal for say Marathon Runners and athletes that train at high altitude to use recovery chambers,is this chamber that Novak is using a updated version of a recovery chamber?

Very good question. I don't believe there's any test they can use to detect this machine's use but it really would be taking the p1$$ for marathon runners to use it. My own opinion is it's completely against the spirit of sport for ANY sport to condone its use but imagine if it was being used for runners. It most definitely is if it's available to the public I guess. Sport has become a shambles this decade :/ Whatever happened to hard training in the gym or on the road. No, let's just sit in a machine or inject enhanced blood instead and watch tv. Sad.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

^ Thanks,for a long time in sport,not just tennis it is 'all about the winning,sometimes at any cost'.I used to love watching the Tour De France,it is now in my mind a complete farce.I always question when the winner crosses the line,has he been taking performing enhancing drugs to win,I know they are tested at random in the race and of course after the race finishes.Athletes today are trying to find quick fixes and at times not prepared to as you say to put in the hard training.

 

[Billie]

Are people that gullible or just so lazy to do a little research to find out what they are commenting about? With all the bull CVAC people try to pass to their potential buyers, even they do not claim that this machine replaces the training and pain and sweat that comes from it. There is no scientific proof that it does enhance the performance, but Front if it makes you feel better to blame this on 6:1 6:2 sets the other night, go right ahead.

Do you think that all other players (who do not use it) are stupid and dumb? If it provides such a big advantage, it is not so expensive to use and it is legal in the eyes of WADA and ATP/ITF, why don't they all use it?

“Everyone is looking for Djokovic’s secret,” Benjamin Levine, a professor of medicine at University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, told ABC News at the time. “I think every athlete is looking for an edge, but I don’t think you’ll find it with CVAC.”

http://www.outsideonline.com/1930416/secret-science-novak-djokovics-training-pod

This reminds me of all advertisements to make your skin look younger, have a wonderful hair, anti acne creams that work wonderfully, but when you or somebody you know tries it, it is a load of nothing.

Frankly, I am more suspicious of players that we don't hear anything about regarding their regiments, the ones who conduct their business completely behind the closed doors and nobody has any insight on what they do.

While we are at the subject of gaining an edge, we should really try to find out what are the colorful bottles that all tennis players drink, what are the massages and ice baths doing to their bodies because frankly, nothing should be used by anybody then. Just let them run and play and get them to come back and play another match without any recuperation at all.

 

[Carol]

And this article came out in 2011 but my question is again why they talk just about him and if it's legal to use it why the others players don't , it's a good way to recovery from the fatigue and to improve the strength.....

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...vak-using-egg-shaped-pressure-chamber.394899/

 

[Moxie]

Gluten free is a big lol. I like Novak but the gluten free nonsense is NOT the reason for his massive increase in stamina, recovery and overall success. You gain confidence from winning matches. He couldn't win as many of the big ones prior to using this and he'd be tired like the next guy after a tough match. Now it doesn't matter how gruelling the last match(es) were as he's fit and fresh as a daisy after hopping into this thing after the tough match and before the next one starts. It's the CVAC and whatever other secrets we haven't heard of. But for now it's the CVAC. His breathing issues and cardio problems were fixed in the shortest amount of time imaginable since he started using this contraption. Even if we're talking legal over the counter supplements, if I'm taking nothing in the gym and some other guy is taking aminos, BCAAS, creatine, nitric oxide, IGF-1 protein, pre-workout, etc, it's clear who'll be lifting more. That's not all confidence and placebo, it's down to the supplements and same with the CVAC. It's the main reason for this new Novak.

Re leaving a tournament between matches, the CVAC was nearby (2 miles away) for this tournament and, yes, he used it after the long match against Simon and before the start of the one with Nishikori so clearly this machine helps A LOT. That article was written before the semi and final also so you can bet he used it and the Nishikori match, before and after the semi and before the final also.

It's all covered here and this is a reliable source http://www.wsj.com/articles/tennis-players-get-an-oxygen-fix-1454023796

We discussed that Melbourne is conveniently located and democratically priced, (you already posted that article) so that doesn't address your previous assertion that CVAC is unfair because elite athletes can afford to go to the inconvenient ones. My point was that I've never heard of Novak leaving a tournament to fly to a CVAC for recovery after a match. That seems impractical, at best. So don't say that elite athletes can use it to be fresh after a tough match because they can travel to them. Between tournaments, I would buy that.

The gluten-free diet is not an LOL. It can do great things for people that have a sensitivity to it, not only those with Celiac's Disease. I have a close friend who suffered with low-energy and depression for years. A nutritionist gave her a tailor-made diet which excludes, among other things, wheat gluten. Her energy is much better, and it helped with her mood. She had previously been spectacularly unathletic, but she took up running and has run up to half-marathon races. She has permanently dropped 20-30 lbs. (10-15 kilos.) This in a middle-aged woman. We all know that athletes take great care with what they eat, as it affects performance. I'm not unwilling to say that the egg has helped Djokovic, but I think you're wrong to completely discount the affects of his diet. I believe that it corrected an imbalance in his system, as I've seen it work myself.

No reason not to debate whether or not the CVAC should be banned, but, at present it isn't. But I also think it's wrong to imply that Djokovic is where he is purely from using what you consider a "dodgy" technology. I've asked you twice why you've suddenly taken against Novak on this, when it's been out there for several years to know. And you, of all people, would have been looking at a mid-career jump in form and fitness in 2011. Except, I suspect, because Novak was then beating Rafa in the big moments and protecting Roger's records, so it wasn't convenient for you. Now that he's a threat to Fed's legacy himself, you've come out against the CVAC, with a bit of a mean edge as to Djoker using it. (I mean, "cyborg?" Really.) I'm sorry to seem cynical about your motives, but I've seen you use the tactic of attempting to cast doubt on Nadal's integrity for years, including calling out legal procedures he's had. It's the timing of your suddenly getting your hair on fire over this that raises my suspicions. As I said, though, I'm happy to debate the usage dispassionately, if you leave off impugning someone's integrity and hard work. (I don't think anyone believes that Novak doesn't work hard.)

 

[Billie]

And this article came out in 2011 but my question is again why they talk just about him and if it's legal to use it why the others players don't , it's a good way to recovery from the fatigue and to improve the strength.....

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...vak-using-egg-shaped-pressure-chamber.394899/

Well for the CVAC people it helps to advertise that #1 player in the world uses it or used it in hopes it will boost their sales (which is not helping as they are struggling with that).

As for other players not using it, they must be dumb or it really does not help the way they advertise it. So you decide which answer you'll go with.

 

[Carol]

Well for the CVAC people it helps to advertise that #1 player in the world uses it or used it in hopes it will boost their sales (which is not helping as they are struggling with that).

As for other players not using it, they must be dumb or it really does not help the way they advertise it. So you decide which answer you'll go with.

Don't ask me, you should ask them and that's why I think that everything about that case sounds and seems to be weird

 

[Moxie]

Don't ask me, you should ask them and that's why I think that everything about that case sounds and seems to be weird

It's not a "case," it's a technology. And "weird" is pretty non-specific. It's an interesting question to know who else uses it, or why others don't. Front says that it works better for some than others. Another suggestion is either no effect, or placebo effect.

 

[Carol]

It's not a "case," it's a technology. And "weird" is pretty non-specific. It's an interesting question to know who else uses it, or why others don't. Front says that it works better for some than others. Another suggestion is either no effect, or placebo effect.

When I call it a case it's because Front has brought it, whatever something came to a conversation or argument I name it 'a case', and when I say it's weird it's because I heard for 5 years about that egg/chamber/CVAC or whatever is called and in my opinion if it's legal I think every player should use it, it seems can help and easier instead of to climb a mountain to breathe pure air, that's all

 

[Moxie]

When I call it a case it's because Front has brought it, whatever something came to a conversation or argument I name it 'a case', and when I say it's weird it's because I heard for 5 years about that egg/chamber/CVAC or whatever is called and in my opinion if it's legal I think every player should use it, it seems can help and easier instead of to climb a mountain to breathe pure air, that's all

Well, it seems expedient. Training at altitude doesn't seem practical for that most tennis players, compared to training it hot climes. The question seems to be if it is blood-enriching in a way that blood-doping, which is banned, also is. I don't think that's clear.

 

[Mastoor]

Probably his next son's name. It's his beloved toy he claimed he only used once which incidentally was 100% bs as he's using it for years and all this tournament.

"Djokovic, known as the most meticulous player on the tour, has used the pods here for several years with the hope of aiding recovery and preventing injury."

""CVAC Systems chief executive Allen Ruszkowski says the treatment seems to have many of the same effects on the body as intense exercise. He claims that the technology may be twice as effective at helping the body absorb oxygen as blood doping—a banned form of performance enhancement."

"Fittest" ('cos it's not real fitness, it's only artificial from a machine) guy on tour now, who went from being a cardio wreck end of 2010 to superman from 2011 to present all 'cos of a machine that should be banned. Oh and hey, gluten free diets help too, right. I've always been a fan of Djokovic but after reading up more on this the whole thing is a joke and they should ban it. Thing is they can't really because it's undetectable like Argon and Xenon gas so the bs will continue.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tennis-players-get-an-oxygen-fix-1454023796

http://www.dropshotdispatch.com/201...ovics-controversial-training-method-examined/

Anyway, CVAC wins this one and Murray will continue his mighty record of losing in finals here. One guy has never lost a final here and the other looks set to keep losing his.

Ha, ha, what a pain after Federror losing all those matches to No1e. So, if using CVAC why not everyone is using it. No1e doesn't after he used it twice during USO 2010 and decided he didn't like it

 

[Front242]

Ha, ha, what a pain after Federror losing all those matches to No1e. So, if using CVAC why not everyone is using it. No1e doesn't after he used it twice during USO 2010 and decided he didn't like it

He used it all during this year's AO so it seems that's total bollocks

 

[Moxie]

He used it all during this year's AO so it seems that's total bollocks

However, you still haven't explained why this bothers you now, so many years after it became first known.

 

[Front242]

However, you still haven't explained why this bothers you now, so many years after it became first known.

I think I have. He said he stopped using it which was a complete lie as he used it all through this year's AO before and after matches so it clearly works very well. I hadn't read up enough on it and must've missed the part where they claim it's twice as effective as illegal blood doping. Seeing how the guy went from having terrible cardio issues with breathing problems and tons of retirements in a very short space of time from the end of 2010 to being the "fittest" (artificial fitness so I'm putting it in quotes) guy on tour start of 2011 to present, I think the authorities have been poor in not following up on it since they said they needed to look into it and just gave up. It's against the spirit of sport and belittles what past eras have done. Did Laver and Borg have this crap? No. To stay fit they had to train very hard, running on the road etc, day after day.

 

[Denis]

I think I have. He said he stopped using it which was a complete lie as he used it all through this year's AO before and after matches so it clearly works very well. I hadn't read up enough on it and must've missed the part where they claim it's twice as effective as illegal blood doping. Seeing how the guy went from having terrible cardio issues with breathing problems and tons of retirements in a very short space of time from the end of 2010 to being the "fittest" (artificial fitness so I'm putting it in quotes) guy on tour start of 2011 to present, I think the authorities have been poor in not following up on it since they said they needed to look into it and just gave up. It's against the spirit of sport and belittles what past eras have done. Did Laver and Borg have this crap? No. To stay fit they had to train very hard, running on the road etc, day after day.

Did Laver and Borg have graphite rackets? The world is so unfair front! Poor fed, he was really struggling with his stamina those first two sets at the AO this year against Novak. If not for the machine it would have been a blowout the other way around.