Djokovic now indisputedly a better grasscourtplayer than Nadal.....

[Fiero425]

Well id say the fact Roddick almost won one year later and outplayed Roger from the baseline shows the trend im talking about. From 03-05 Roddick only made a small match out of one of the 3.

Of course anything short of saying Roger and his 1-12 bp's and astronomic error count played brilliantly in 2008 won't be suffice for you.

This is the re-attributing of history, kinda like the silly thread last year which fed fans couldn't wait to subscribe to and co-sign - remember the one that said the 2014 final was better than the GOAT match of 2008? Djoker, struggling to defy an octogenarian and going to five?

And it was better than the 2008 match? :laydownlaughing

Why? Because Rafa won that one.

"The re-attributing of history." It's a new phrase, I just made it up. Feel free to use it...

There was a thread on whether it was a higher quality match, not whether it was greater which it clearly wasn't. The 2014 final was way better if you only go on stats which is of course misleading. 2008 had major ups and downs from both players which is part of what made it so great.

It may have been entertaining to the Fed fans in 2014, but that was an awful match if you're on the Nole bandwagon! IIRC, it should have been over in 4 due to him being up 2 breaks! I'm sure Roger hit some good shots and stayed in it for the most part, but Nole cracked and just didn't get the job done when he had the chance early on! It's what I see of a lot of players who compete these days; an inability to close out a match at times! I can go on and on OTTH with players serving for a match, sometimes with MP's and they consistently find a way to lose it! HOW? My mother should be able to step in there at that point! :cover :nono :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Billie]

^^ I don't know Fiero, I am happy every time Nole wins, if he makes it a bit harder on himself and on his fans, so be it. There are lots of emotions involved, these are all great players and they have a lot on the line so it is not easy to constantly win easily.

What I love is when he "loses" it for a little and then gets mad and just turns the page, like nothing happened just moments ago. He is so special in that way and as long as he is fresh enough, he does not give up. He has been impressive in deciding/last sets of his matches this year. That counts for something?

 

[the AntiPusher]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry


Rafa first lost to Novak in a final was 2011 in IW.. This should put the rest the notion that he would have defeated Rafa at Wimbledon 2010.. Novak's recent major adjustments to Nadal game didn't come until late 2010 at the WTF.

 

[DarthFed]

This is the re-attributing of history, kinda like the silly thread last year which fed fans couldn't wait to subscribe to and co-sign - remember the one that said the 2014 final was better than the GOAT match of 2008? Djoker, struggling to defy an octogenarian and going to five?

And it was better than the 2008 match? :laydownlaughing

Why? Because Rafa won that one.

"The re-attributing of history." It's a new phrase, I just made it up. Feel free to use it...

There was a thread on whether it was a higher quality match, not whether it was greater which it clearly wasn't. The 2014 final was way better if you only go on stats which is of course misleading. 2008 had major ups and downs from both players which is part of what made it so great.

It may have been entertaining to the Fed fans in 2014, but that was an awful match if you're on the Nole bandwagon! IIRC, it should have been over in 4 due to him being up 2 breaks! I'm sure Roger hit some good shots and stayed in it for the most part, but Nole cracked and just didn't get the job done when he had the chance early on! It's what I see of a lot of players who compete these days; an inability to close out a match at times! I can go on and on OTTH with players serving for a match, sometimes with MP's and they consistently find a way to lose it! HOW? My mother should be able to step in there at that point! :cover :nono :angel: :dodgy:

No loss is ever entertaining. But it was a great match, Both were pretty sharp from the get go and it was remarkably clean given there were a fair share of long rallies. I thought both were better in last year's final (in Roger's case he was way better). Nole came out a little flat in this year's final and Roger played pretty well in the 2nd set and was awful the rest of the time. Nole didn't need to get out of 2nd gear.

 

[Great Hands]

I know this is off topic but there's been lots of off topic posts in this thread and they've raised some questiosn for me.

1. some people were saying federer didn't make manjor changes to his gme to try to beat rafa becuase those hcanges would have made him less effective against teh reast of the fireld. so my questions are:
a) whaty major changes would these be?
b) why would making these changes have made him less good against other players?

2. people were also saying roddick changed his game to try and beat fed, and his game suffered overall.
so my questions are:
a) what changes did roddick make to try and beat fed?
b) why and how did they harm his game?

by they way, i have no agenda here. i am just opening this up the knowlwdgable folks at tennis frontier because i was not so deeply involved with tennis at the time these things were happneing, and i'm interested to know about these points.

 

[Front242]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry


Rafa first lost to Novak in a final was 2011 in IW.. This should put the rest the notion that he would have defeated Rafa at Wimbledon 2010.. Novak's recent major adjustments to Nadal game didn't come until late 2010 at the WTF.

You realize Rafa scraped that title by the skin of his teeth resorting to some seriously dodgy MTOs against Petzschner who was handing him his behind till Rafa took the said timeouts and he was also fighting a serious losing battle to Haase the round before. That tournament win was not one bit convincing so there's every chance Djokovic could've beaten him if Haase and Petzschner gave him so much grief and in the case of the latter he had to cheat his way to beat him.

 

[Fiero425]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry


Rafa first lost to Novak in a final was 2011 in IW.. This should put the rest the notion that he would have defeated Rafa at Wimbledon 2010.. Novak's recent major adjustments to Nadal game didn't come until late 2010 at the WTF.

You realize Rafa scraped that title by the skin of his teeth resorting to some seriously dodgy MTOs against Petzschner who was handing him his behind till Rafa took the said timeouts and he was also fighting a serious losing battle to Haase the round before. That tournament win was not one bit convincing so there's every chance Djokovic could've beaten him if Haase and Petzschner gave him so much grief and in the case of the latter he had to cheat his way to beat him.

After that act I was done with Nadal! If he can't win the old fashion way, he resorts to other tactics! No one else "offends" me as much as Rafa; esp. with his sycophants like McEnroe touting him as "THE GOAT!" :cover :nono :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Kieran]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry


Rafa first lost to Novak in a final was 2011 in IW.. This should put the rest the notion that he would have defeated Rafa at Wimbledon 2010.. Novak's recent major adjustments to Nadal game didn't come until late 2010 at the WTF.

You realize Rafa scraped that title by the skin of his teeth resorting to some seriously dodgy MTOs against Petzschner who was handing him his behind till Rafa took the said timeouts and he was also fighting a serious losing battle to Haase the round before. That tournament win was not one bit convincing so there's every chance Djokovic could've beaten him if Haase and Petzschner gave him so much grief and in the case of the latter he had to cheat his way to beat him.

:laydownlaughing :laydownlaughing

Buddy, that's only so much nonsense...

 

[Obsi]

 

[Front242]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry


Rafa first lost to Novak in a final was 2011 in IW.. This should put the rest the notion that he would have defeated Rafa at Wimbledon 2010.. Novak's recent major adjustments to Nadal game didn't come until late 2010 at the WTF.

You realize Rafa scraped that title by the skin of his teeth resorting to some seriously dodgy MTOs against Petzschner who was handing him his behind till Rafa took the said timeouts and he was also fighting a serious losing battle to Haase the round before. That tournament win was not one bit convincing so there's every chance Djokovic could've beaten him if Haase and Petzschner gave him so much grief and in the case of the latter he had to cheat his way to beat him.

:laydownlaughing :laydownlaughing

Buddy, that's only so much nonsense...

Everything's nonsense to you if it's negative towards Nadal. There's actually not one bit of nonsense there and you have more grounded Nadal fans like Broken even admitting those MTOs were very dubious. I realize you're above calling it cheating as it's "in the rules" but wtf else is making up an imaginary injury when you're losing to stop the onslaught of aces and rocket forehands your opponent is laying down on you when you're down 2 sets to 1 and 2-1 and your opponent has a break and is serving next ? :s I've no doubt you can even defend that one!

PS: I'll help with wtf you call that. It's called taking the, extracting the urine, bending the rules so much it's downright laughable! But no, of course it's not cheating. Nadal would never do that.

 

[Kieran]

You realize Rafa scraped that title by the skin of his teeth resorting to some seriously dodgy MTOs against Petzschner who was handing him his behind till Rafa took the said timeouts and he was also fighting a serious losing battle to Haase the round before. That tournament win was not one bit convincing so there's every chance Djokovic could've beaten him if Haase and Petzschner gave him so much grief and in the case of the latter he had to cheat his way to beat him.

:laydownlaughing :laydownlaughing

Buddy, that's only so much nonsense...

Everything's nonsense to you if it's negative towards Nadal. There's actually not one bit of nonsense there and you have more grounded Nadal fans like Broken even admitting those MTOs were very dubious. I realize you're above calling it cheating as it's "in the rules" but wtf else is making up an imaginary injury when you're losing to stop the onslaught of aces and rocket forehands your opponent is laying down on you when you're down 2 sets to 1 and 2-1 and your opponent has a break and is serving next ? :s I've no doubt you can even defend that one!

Taking an MTO is only dubious if the player wasn't injured.

Do you have a doctor's report stating that he didn't need the MTO and was cheating? If not, give it up. You been spoofing about this stuff too long...

 

[calitennis127]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Nadal_rivalry


Rafa first lost to Novak in a final was 2011 in IW.. This should put the rest the notion that he would have defeated Rafa at Wimbledon 2010.. Novak's recent major adjustments to Nadal game didn't come until late 2010 at the WTF.

You realize Rafa scraped that title by the skin of his teeth resorting to some seriously dodgy MTOs against Petzschner who was handing him his behind till Rafa took the said timeouts and he was also fighting a serious losing battle to Haase the round before. That tournament win was not one bit convincing so there's every chance Djokovic could've beaten him if Haase and Petzschner gave him so much grief and in the case of the latter he had to cheat his way to beat him.

No front, you must remember that Nadal won that match on the strength of one of the "greatest forehands" the game has ever seen. Nadal's forehand was just "sublime" in that match, downright "sublime", like it is every time he plays.

 

[Front242]

:laydownlaughing :laydownlaughing

Buddy, that's only so much nonsense...

Everything's nonsense to you if it's negative towards Nadal. There's actually not one bit of nonsense there and you have more grounded Nadal fans like Broken even admitting those MTOs were very dubious. I realize you're above calling it cheating as it's "in the rules" but wtf else is making up an imaginary injury when you're losing to stop the onslaught of aces and rocket forehands your opponent is laying down on you when you're down 2 sets to 1 and 2-1 and your opponent has a break and is serving next ? :s I've no doubt you can even defend that one!

Taking an MTO is only dubious if the player wasn't injured.

Do you have a doctor's report stating that he didn't need the MTO and was cheating? If not, give it up. You been spoofing about this stuff too long...

You don't need proof other than your eyes and the fact that Petzschner said it was "very clever of him" and that it worked 'cos he won handily after that. Not gonna trust his doctor anyway lol! I'd sooner trust a politician.

 

[calitennis127]

Because next you'll be telling us, Roddick would have beaten Roger in 2008, so Rafa's win? Meh!

Well id say the fact Roddick almost won one year later and outplayed Roger from the baseline shows the trend im talking about. From 03-05 Roddick only made a small match out of one of the 3.

Of course anything short of saying Roger and his 1-12 bp's and astronomic error count played brilliantly in 2008 won't be suffice for you.

This is the re-attributing of history, kinda like the silly thread last year which fed fans couldn't wait to subscribe to and co-sign - remember the one that said the 2014 final was better than the GOAT match of 2008? Djoker, struggling to defy an octogenarian and going to five?

And it was better than the 2008 match? :laydownlaughing

Why? Because Rafa won that one.

No, because the shotmaking was better. I know that Nadal fans feel the need to always disparage it, but some of us actually enjoy that aspect of tennis.

 

[Kieran]

Everything's nonsense to you if it's negative towards Nadal. There's actually not one bit of nonsense there and you have more grounded Nadal fans like Broken even admitting those MTOs were very dubious. I realize you're above calling it cheating as it's "in the rules" but wtf else is making up an imaginary injury when you're losing to stop the onslaught of aces and rocket forehands your opponent is laying down on you when you're down 2 sets to 1 and 2-1 and your opponent has a break and is serving next ? :s I've no doubt you can even defend that one!

Taking an MTO is only dubious if the player wasn't injured.

Do you have a doctor's report stating that he didn't need the MTO and was cheating? If not, give it up. You been spoofing about this stuff too long...

You don't need proof other than your eyes and the fact that Petzschner said it was "very clever of him" and that it worked 'cos he won handily after that. Not gonna trust his doctor anyway lol! I'd sooner trust a politician.

So, you have no proof.

No further questions, your honour...

 

[Front242]

Taking an MTO is only dubious if the player wasn't injured.

Do you have a doctor's report stating that he didn't need the MTO and was cheating? If not, give it up. You been spoofing about this stuff too long...

You don't need proof other than your eyes and the fact that Petzschner said it was "very clever of him" and that it worked 'cos he won handily after that. Not gonna trust his doctor anyway lol! I'd sooner trust a politician.

So, you have no proof.

No further questions, your honour...

You disappoint me greatly. In the age we live in you should know lack of proof means absolutely zero, nada, zilch.

 

[Kieran]

You don't need proof other than your eyes and the fact that Petzschner said it was "very clever of him" and that it worked 'cos he won handily after that. Not gonna trust his doctor anyway lol! I'd sooner trust a politician.

So, you have no proof.

No further questions, your honour...

You disappoint me greatly. In the age we live in you should know lack of proof means absolutely zero, nada, zilch.

No, to somebody like you proof means nothing, so you can slander your least favourite player... :cover

 

[Front242]

So, you have no proof.

No further questions, your honour...

You disappoint me greatly. In the age we live in you should know lack of proof means absolutely zero, nada, zilch.

No, to somebody like you proof means nothing, so you can slander your least favourite player... :cover

It must have been a devasting injury that caused him to win the next 2 sets easily and the whole tournament. Yes, quite an injury alright no doubt. Keep on dreaming and defending everything Rafa does even if it's downright illogical to do so and when it's blatantly obvious he wasn't playing fair there.

 

[Front242]

And to get back on topic, yes Djokovic is better on grass.

 

[Kieran]

You disappoint me greatly. In the age we live in you should know lack of proof means absolutely zero, nada, zilch.

No, to somebody like you proof means nothing, so you can slander your least favourite player... :cover

It must have been a devasting injury that caused him to win the next 2 sets easily and the whole tournament. Yes, quite an injury alright no doubt. Keep on dreaming and defending everything Rafa does even if it's downright illogical to do so and when it's blatantly obvious he wasn't playing fair there.

You're a sore loser, brother. And I don't defend Rafa on everything, but you just don't like the dude. You've got to try be more objective, and not let your hatred blind you...