Djokovic Era

[Riotbeard]

Nadal was the best player in the world on hards in 2013.

So you're wilfully ignoring the actual results? Novak had better results on hards than Rafa in 2013.

No, I'm just actually going beyond the numbers because it's not always that simple. For instance, Nadal did not play the AO. That's not Novak's fault, but that affects perception in hindsight. Why does it affect perception? Because Nadal then came back, played in the same hard court tournaments Novak did between March and September, and went undefeated...beating Novak twice along the way, one of which being in a slam final.

Yeah, I'm sorry, raw data alone doesn't always tell the full story. I like and respect what you do but you need to sometimes be able to see beyond the numbers.

Nadal went 4 undefeated tournaments on hards (3 masters and a slam). There was no doubt in anyone's mind, including Novak (since he commented on it) who was the best hard court player in the world throughout that time.

Novak did have an extremely strong end to the season. However, fair or not, that time of the season has historically somehow counted for less, likely due to the absence of a major.

I would probably say Rafa and Novak split the hardcourts pretty evenly. Also Nadal lost in the final of 250 clay tournament he played after skipping the AO, so had he played the AO do you honestly think he would have won, so it's hard to see how hindsight makes the AO title any more or less important.

I will say this thread has really devolved into boring fanboying... Anyone who thinks rafa is a one surface wonder is a fool. He has the third best hard court career resume on tour after #1 Fed and #2 Novak. Of course his 2013 on hards was impressive.

That being said, Nadal fans really managed to make a thread about Novak into some sort of lame "nadal is good too!" thread...

 

[Carol]

I would say that the Novak's fans started to bring Rafa into the conversation and then there are always some answers for them

 

[auto-pilot]

I would say that the Novak's fans started to bring Rafa into the conversation and then there are always some answers for them

I saw at the Talk Tennis forum that Djokovic fans post regularly in the "Nadal News" thread.
Their world revolves around Nadal, because he's got everything Djokovic wants.
If Djokovic was given the option of swapping his career with Nadal's career, he'd swap it immediately.

 

[Kieran]

That being said, Nadal fans really managed to make a thread about Novak into some sort of lame "nadal is good too!" thread...

That's a little bit unfair, brother. The thread isn't "about Novak" - it's a discussion into whether this is a "Djokovic era", and recently we saw a Djokolite (Billie) take a bit of a gratuitous pop at Rafa, in order to assert Novak.

All the posts since can be read in the light of this, or the OP, more or less...

 

[Riotbeard]

That being said, Nadal fans really managed to make a thread about Novak into some sort of lame "nadal is good too!" thread...

That's a little bit unfair, brother. The thread isn't "about Novak" - it's a discussion into whether this is a "Djokovic era", and recently we saw a Djokolite (Billie) take a bit of a gratuitous pop at Rafa, in order to assert Novak.

All the posts since can be read in the light of this, or the OP, more or less...

Maybe a little bit unfair , but you guys are wagon circling beyond need.

Billie, love her or hate her, does what Billie does. (Note: I think Billie is great). She is an unrepentant super fan, but to respond to her as if there is a dominant narrative in this forum that Nadal has never done anything on hard courts is a straw man, and has led to a really uninteresting conversation. You even jumped on Dude for making a fair point that, when he went back and looked through it all, noticed that Rafa had less titles on hards in the last five year than he expected. It is both a sign rafa has not won as many as say novak, but the fact that he was surprised also says that Dude was saying rafa doesn't have that many title for being one of the best hardcourters of this era. The exact same thing could be said for Novak on clay.

 

[Kieran]

I didn't jump on the Dude, though I agree with Broken that the stats for 2013 don't tell the full tale. But this is irrelevant, because the suggestion was that Rafa was average on other surfaces than clay in this period, and that's plainly unsustainable. And yes, I like Billie too. I much prefer strong biased opinions than people who sneak stuff out in feigned innocence. So I have no problem with Billie or any other strongwilled Djoker fans. It wouldn't be worthwhile coming here if it was all neat and tidy and non-confrontational. I don't hold that against anyone, hope they don't hold it against me...

 

[Riotbeard]

I didn't jump on the Dude, though I agree with Broken that the stats for 2013 don't tell the full tale. But this is irrelevant, because the suggestion was that Rafa was average on other surfaces than clay in this period, and that's plainly unsustainable. And yes, I like Billie too. I much prefer strong biased opinions than people who sneak stuff out in feigned innocence. So I have no problem with Billie or any other strongwilled Djoker fans. It wouldn't be worthwhile coming here if it was all neat and tidy and non-confrontational. I don't hold that against anyone, hope they don't hold it against me...

Are most non-rafa fans really saying that rafa has been average? Dude was pointing out the surprising fact that rafa in spite of being great hards actually doesn't have many title in the last five years. It is what it is.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

For me personally Rafa's great HC wins leading up to the USO in 2013 was a standout

Winning 2 Masters Titles and then the USO defeating Novak in 4 sets,thus winning his 2nd USO title,

To me Rafa excelled on the HC's in that year.

To join Andy Roddick and Pat Rafter as the 3 players in the history that have won the 2 leading HC tournaments and then the USO is a outstanding stat.

In saying that I am still puzzled as to why Novak to date,has only won 1 USO title,considering he shines on HCs.

 

[Denis]

This is all rubbish. Since when does the hc season consist out of three tourneys: the U.S. open, cincy and Canada?

Novak did better on yards than Nadal in 2013. Plain and simple. Nadal had a good 5 week run.

 

[Riotbeard]

This is all rubbish. Since when does the hc season consist out of three tourneys: the U.S. open, cincy and Canada?

Novak did better on yards than Nadal in 2013. Plain and simple. Nadal had a good 5 week run.

They are really pretty even in terms of title, except novak got the wtf.

 

[Kieran]

Indian Wells. Indian Wells. Indian...

 

[El Dude]

I just like being called "the Dude."

Where's my white russian, though?

 

[Obsi]

The thread isn't "about Novak" - it's a discussion into whether this is a "Djokovic era"

No. The thread is about whether 2011-2016 could be called "Djokovic Era"

Btw, I don't agree that 2011-2014 is "Djokovic Era"

 

[Kieran]

The thread isn't "about Novak" - it's a discussion into whether this is a "Djokovic era"

No. The thread is about whether 2011-2016 could be called "Djokovic Era"

Btw, I don't agree that 2011-2014 is "Djokovic Era"

That's good, because neither do I! :laydownlaughing

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

The thread isn't "about Novak" - it's a discussion into whether this is a "Djokovic era"

No. The thread is about whether 2011-2016 could be called "Djokovic Era"

Btw, I don't agree that 2011-2014 is "Djokovic Era"

That's good, because neither do I! :laydownlaughing

Try to behave........I know the Irish in you makes that a tad difficult at times....

 

[Kirijax]

Nadal has put up a good fight, but I would have to say 2011-14 should be called the Djokovic ERA. And it should continue this year as well.

 

[auto-pilot]

So Nadal has won 4 slam matches in a row over Djokovic in The Djokovic Era (and the most lopsided was at the 2013 US Open!)?
Let's hope this era continues so Nadal can grab 20 luscious slam titles.

 

[Riotbeard]

So Nadal has won 4 slam matches in a row over Djokovic in The Djokovic Era (and the most lopsided was at the 2013 US Open!)?
Let's hope this era continues so Nadal can grab 20 luscious slam titles.

I believe the term you are searching for is "beat." Rafa beat novak at slams 4 times in a row at slams they faced each other at. No one has won four slams in a row since laver :angel:

 

[auto-pilot]

^ I said "Nadal has won 4 slam matches in a row over Djokovic".

 

[brokenshoelace]

I would probably say Rafa and Novak split the hardcourts pretty evenly. Also Nadal lost in the final of 250 clay tournament he played after skipping the AO, so had he played the AO do you honestly think he would have won, so it's hard to see how hindsight makes the AO title any more or less important.

I will say this thread has really devolved into boring fanboying... Anyone who thinks rafa is a one surface wonder is a fool. He has the third best hard court career resume on tour after #1 Fed and #2 Novak. Of course his 2013 on hards was impressive.

That being said, Nadal fans really managed to make a thread about Novak into some sort of lame "nadal is good too!" thread...

The AO title is not any more or less important. It's just a title that Djokovic won when Nadal wasn't there, so when comparing their hard court resumes during that year, it counts for just as much on paper, but perhaps less so in perception, especially in light of what transpired thereafter. This may or may not be fair, but it's a fact. After Nadal won the US Open and had just won 4 hard court tournaments in a row with zero defeats, nobody would have offered a case for Novak being the best on player on hards that year (I'm not talking about abilities in general, since he obviously is the better hard court player), despite Novak having a GS title and a GS final on hards that year, since nobody held it against Nadal that he didn't do well at the AO since you know, he didn't play. The other thing that affects perception is the fact that Novak's dominant hard court run happened late in the year, when all the slams have been played out. That doesn't change the results but it does affect perception since the fall usually gets the least attention.

Regarding your last point, that's a bit rich considering the whole point of the thread seems to be: "Yeah, Novak's been great, but let's somehow make his achievements even greater by calling this an era and project about the future."

Plus, please inform me how can you talk about a Djokovic era without bringing up Nadal? For this to be an era, you compare it to his main rivals' results. Obviously, the player with the closest achievements during that span is Nadal, so we're going to compare the two to see if this is an era... I'm not being a jerk but I don't see your point at all. So yeah, 2013 is going to be brought up because during the supposed Novak "era," he wasn't even the best player in the world that year (that part is not debatable).