Did we just witness Federer's Last Stand?

[Backhand_DTL]

I think it's because Roger playing well even against most other top players often meant he wins in four sets at most. So if he played well and was taken to five he was not used to fight until the end in such a situation and otherwise something with his game was off anyway and that could be exploited in a fifth.

 

[Fiero425]

I think it's because Roger playing well even against most other top players often meant he wins in four sets at most. So if he played well and was taken to five he was not used to fight until the end in such a situation otherwise something with his game was off anyway and that could be exploited in a fifth.

I've always thought a player's mental toughness was the first to go instead of knees like most people think! When Martina reached her 30's, no one could have been in better shape; even with Graf around! Her problem to me was her confidence and more of a mental stress thing; esp. when she was leading in a match she lost! It all started in '87 where she made final after final the first 6 months of the year! Even at Eastborne, she supposedly was up 5-1 and lost the match in straights! She managed to turn around her fortunes at Wimbledon beating Graf in the final, but you could see something was wrong! She finished up well beating Graf again at the USO in straight sets and taking a few VS titles that fall, but the top ranking was gone, never to be recovered! At Wimbledon in '88 she was up a set and break again to Graf and only won 1 more game the rest of the way! In '89 at the USO, she was up a set, a break, and just 2 games from winning and dropped the match again in 3 sets! Martina took on BJK to help her out and she was able to take one more major at Wimbledon in '90; lucky Graf and Seles had been upset by one of her pigeons, Zina Garrison who she beat easily in the final! Roger is having the same questions of confidence and 5 sets is too long to try and stay ahead of the other top players! His best chance was this past Wimbledon; I think he's done winning those big titles! :nono :angel:

 

[Kieran]

Funny you mention Martina, I remember she said something similar. You get more nervous as you get older, she said. I didn't detect that from Roger on Sunday, in fairness: he always looked like he believed he could win...

 

[DarthFed]

Darth, why do you think Roger has a relatively poor record in the fifth set?

There are many areas of mental toughness and the one he struggles in is the close contact do or die moments. Roger does well with his back against the wall, and used to be the ultimate frontrunner. But when it is a situation where either player can win he is awful. His record overall is still over .500 but that's misleading in the sense that he only beats the low rungs in 5 mostly. His record against good/great players in 5th sets is incredibly bad, especially in the biggest moments of the sport (GS semis and finals). There is no sugarcoating it. Some of these matches like Wimby 08 and 14, he has a mountain of momentum and still comes up lame in the end.

 

[Front242]

AO '09. Say no more!

 

[tented]

People are completely overlooking so many things here imo. It took 5 sets and one break in the 5th set for a 27 year old Novak in his prime to beat grandad Roger who's 33 next month.

You should post this in that ridiculous thread about whether this year's final was better than '08.

 

[DarthFed]

^ How exactly is it ridiculous? I think it was only talking about quality of the play, no one is arguing that it was a greater match.

 

[Kieran]

Darth, why do you think Roger has a relatively poor record in the fifth set?

There are many areas of mental toughness and the one he struggles in is the close contact do or die moments. Roger does well with his back against the wall, and used to be the ultimate frontrunner. But when it is a situation where either player can win he is awful. His record overall is still over .500 but that's misleading in the sense that he only beats the low rungs in 5 mostly. His record against good/great players in 5th sets is incredibly bad, especially in the biggest moments of the sport (GS semis and finals). There is no sugarcoating it. Some of these matches like Wimby 08 and 14, he has a mountain of momentum and still comes up lame in the end.

But why is that, in your opinion? Nerves? Maybe the guys at the top who beat him over five are fellas with great records against him, anyway. Why do you think he doesn't raise his game to beat the challenge?

I happen to agree with you, by the way. Roger doesn't like it when fellas get in his mush. He prefers breathing space and when it gets tight, he doesn't function so well...

 

[DarthFed]

Darth, why do you think Roger has a relatively poor record in the fifth set?

There are many areas of mental toughness and the one he struggles in is the close contact do or die moments. Roger does well with his back against the wall, and used to be the ultimate frontrunner. But when it is a situation where either player can win he is awful. His record overall is still over .500 but that's misleading in the sense that he only beats the low rungs in 5 mostly. His record against good/great players in 5th sets is incredibly bad, especially in the biggest moments of the sport (GS semis and finals). There is no sugarcoating it. Some of these matches like Wimby 08 and 14, he has a mountain of momentum and still comes up lame in the end.

But why is that, in your opinion? Nerves? Maybe the guys at the top who beat him over five are fellas with great records against him, anyway. Why do you think he doesn't raise his game to beat the challenge?

I happen to agree with you, by the way. Roger doesn't like it when fellas get in his mush. He prefers breathing space and when it gets tight, he doesn't function so well...

Nerves or whatever. The fact of the matter is he doesn't handle the pressure of the do or die moments well. He handles the "survivor" moments great where he is clawing to get back in the match to get himself the opportunity to win but when it comes time to win or lose in the 5th, he loses. There is only one guy with a great H2H against him anyways so that is not a factor in the 5th. At majors in QF or later (all 2003-present) he is 1-2 vs. Rafa, 0-3 vs. Nole, 0-1 vs. Murray, 2-1 vs. DP, 1-0 vs. Roddick, 1-1 vs. Tsonga, 1-0 vs. Agassi, 0-1 vs. Safin.

Now Rafa and Nole are 2 all time greats but he is a combined 1-5 there, and Nole isn't close to legendary status either. All 3 of those losses to Nole are at Roger's best slams to boot and 2 featured some of the worst chokes in recent history.

After that against the "rest" we have 5-4 and that is still a poor record given that Roger should be considered the overwhelming favorite in every one of those matches.

 

[Kieran]

He replied above, A-P...