Did we just witness Federer's Last Stand?

[shawnbm]

Folks tend to forget that Nole made those passing shots, under enormous pressure. It was Fed's way of challenging Nole, just like Novak was going at Roger's forehand in some rallies. I think Rogerr's slice floated and sat up a few too many times, but it is one thing to hit those passing shots in practice or against the number 100 in the world without the world watching you. He did it time and again, and some of his passing shots were damned good, considering that Federer won 66% of his net approaches for the match. I think Nole's backhand under pressure on some of those passes against Roger were very key to him winning. I would not be surprised to hear that Edberg and Roger wanted to see if he could keep it up under pressure. Novak was the better man on the day by just enough. Kudos to him. Roger likely thinks he should have won, and that bodes well for the rest of the year and for all of us here!

 

[Tennis Miller]

Last stand. You can't play the short points he needs to play now in majors anywhere but Wimbledon. And I cannot imagine a future Wimby where he again glides through to the semis almost completely unchallenged, and then dodges a long match with Rafa, Nole or Murray in the semis, then beats a top guy in the final when he's another year older. I think this was it, even though he showed game far longer than I ever thought he could today.

I do agree with an earlier post, however, that, if anything, losing this close final at nearly age 33 to the world #1 actually enhances his legacy [which I think is that he's the greatest player of his generation.]

Cheers
TM

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Last stand. You can't play the short points he needs to play now in majors anywhere but Wimbledon. And I cannot imagine a future Wimby where he again glides through to the semis almost completely unchallenged, and then dodges a long match with Rafa, Nole or Murray in the semis, then beats a top guy in the final when he's another year older. I think this was it, even though he showed game far longer than I ever thought he could today.

I do agree with an earlier post, however, that, if anything, losing this close final at nearly age 33 to the world #1 actually enhances his legacy [which I think is that he's the greatest player of his generation.]

Cheers
TM

Actually, if you look at the facts, Novak reached this final without playing against a top 10
player. So, anything can happen. Also, recall what happened last year in Wimbledon. By
Wednesday of first week several big name players were gone.

Sure Novak had two tough matches against Cilic and Grigor. However, they became
tough primarily because Novak's brain was AWOL during the match.

 

[Front242]

Last stand. You can't play the short points he needs to play now in majors anywhere but Wimbledon. And I cannot imagine a future Wimby where he again glides through to the semis almost completely unchallenged, and then dodges a long match with Rafa, Nole or Murray in the semis, then beats a top guy in the final when he's another year older. I think this was it, even though he showed game far longer than I ever thought he could today.

I do agree with an earlier post, however, that, if anything, losing this close final at nearly age 33 to the world #1 actually enhances his legacy [which I think is that he's the greatest player of his generation.]

Cheers
TM

Except he actually won a ton of the longer rallies, thus putting that Fed90x theory to rest :nono But it definitely enhances his legacy doing so well at his age alright. The fact that he's so unchallenged is also because he's so good. Journeymen give plenty of the other players trouble at Wimbledon. The guy 6 years older waited patiently while his younger opponent got the trainer out twice, one of which was a MTO. The fitness issue only occurs in 5th sets and that's been a thorn in his side for much of his career, it's not a sudden thing. I don't think fitness lost him the match there. He actually looked fresher and just played a predictably poor game at the end. His main woe today was points lost on 2nd serve imo.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

Last stand. You can't play the short points he needs to play now in majors anywhere but Wimbledon. And I cannot imagine a future Wimby where he again glides through to the semis almost completely unchallenged, and then dodges a long match with Rafa, Nole or Murray in the semis, then beats a top guy in the final when he's another year older. I think this was it, even though he showed game far longer than I ever thought he could today.

I do agree with an earlier post, however, that, if anything, losing this close final at nearly age 33 to the world #1 actually enhances his legacy [which I think is that he's the greatest player of his generation.]

Cheers
TM

Actually, if you look at the facts, Novak reached this final without playing against a top 10
player. So, anything can happen. Also, recall what happened last year in Wimbledon. By
Wednesday of first week several big name players were gone.

Sure Novak had two tough matches against Cilic and Grigor. However, they became
tough primarily because Novak's brain was AWOL during the match.

I think Novak's draw was tougher in reality than it looks on paper. Apart from the first round he only had opponents that at least have the potential to play well on grass, whereas Federer other than Müller basically only met players who have grass as their worst surface. The only round where Federer's opponent might have been tougher is the quarter final and even putting Wawrinka over Cilic on grass is debatable.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

A quote from Roger:

“I'm very happy to see that with feeling normal I can produce a performance like I did the last two weeks," added Federer. "That clearly makes me believe that this was just a steppingstone to many more great things in the future."

A steppingstone? Great things in the future?:wow:

This guy is amazing. He is talking like Dimitrov or Milos should talk ! He is not going anywhere until he loses 15 tournaments in a row in the first round...:nono

 

[Front242]

Yup, though he lost today he showed himself to be pretty damn awesome for much of the match, especially when you consider he's 33 next month. As Novak said, "He's a magnificent champion and a great example of a great athlete and great role model for many kids."

As a side note: hats off again to another oldie, Radek Stepanek who played a hell of a match against Novak and is 36 later this year!

 

[DarthFed]

Except he didn't prove he can compete over 5. The problem I see is Roger realistically needs to win 3 out of 4 sets vs the top guys and they only need to win 2 of the first 4 vs. him. The pivotal set was #3 and though Roger fought incredibly well in set 4 he was still easily beaten in the 5th despite all the momentum imaginable.

Yeah, it's just a question of hanging in there against him in a 5th set if you're halfway good 'cos history shows even in his prime his 5th set record is pretty poor. The 3rd set TB for me was the worst patch of play by Roger. Very admirable fight in set 4 but he played a really bad TB to lose set 3. Also thought some of the approach shows were straight of a comic book Roddick style. He looked like a chicken with no head approaching just to get passed and all too often when he gets the ball at the net these days as I mentioned earlier, he hits it right back to his opponent regardless of who they are when he should've hit it the opposite direction to the open court. Wish he'd think clearer and not hit it back to them. It's not even a case of trying to wrong foot them 'cos he doesn't even hit it behind them he simply hits it right back to them all too timidly.

At some point I felt he should have stopped going to the net because he was being burned most of the time he went there. He seemed to go to the net with the wrong approach shots, clearly exposing himself to passing shots from Djokovic. This was not his last stand. He will have more chances I think.

Yeah I think part of the problem is not adjusting his net play for the elite players. What works against guys like Tsonga, Stan, Raonic, etc. will often get him burned against Rafa, Nole and Murray. It is just the way it is. A "good" approach shot is often not enough vs. those guys and a mediocre one is money in the bank for them. You saw a few too many mediocre approaches today and Nole made him pay.

 

[atttomole]

True. With the top players he has to come in at the right time. He has had similar issues when trying drop shots against Nadal, who has been able get his drop shots quite often. It also appears that at times he has no choice but to come in to shorten the points.

 

[calitennis127]

A quote from Roger:

“I'm very happy to see that with feeling normal I can produce a performance like I did the last two weeks," added Federer. "That clearly makes me believe that this was just a steppingstone to many more great things in the future."

A steppingstone? Great things in the future?:wow:

This guy is amazing. He is talking like Dimitrov or Milos should talk ! He is not going anywhere until he loses 15 tournaments in a row in the first round...:nono

Because he gets just how overstated much of the incessant yapping about age is.

 

[tennisville]

I think it was , the fact is he was fresher coming into the final and was playing Djokovic on his worst surface. And still he got tired in the end and lost out

I dont think he can win any slam unless both Nadal and Djokovic are taken out by someone else. That is pretty tough to do I feel.

 

[Kieran]

I think he lasted very well, considering it was a very intense match, and all sets were "active" up until the last ball. He seemed quite speedy around the court too, and he served 29 aces, including 5 in a row at one point, and a total of 7 in two service games just before the third set tiebreak.

He obviously needs Rafa out of the draw, but I'm not sure about Nole, although there were several issues for Nole to contend with yesterday, and he seemed to handle them all eventually.

For fitness and speed and shotmaking, Roger's age didn't seem a factor yesterday. But, I think it could be a factor if he has a tougher draw, and plays a match like this in the semis - then has Nole or Rafa waiting in the final. His ability to recover in time from long arduous matches would certainly be hampered by his age...

 

[Front242]

Yeah, no doubt about it, he'd have a hard time playing like that and then playing another high quality match right away a day later if the scheduling screwed him up.

 

[Kieran]

Even without poor scheduling, a two day turn around on big matches like this would be tough for him to make...

 

[Donald]

I think he'll end with 17, but I don't think was his last chance. He'll compete in more final, IMO. It's not like this match was gimme, so he may either have more chances or he really had no chances...

I hope to see Fed lose many more slam finals to novak

As long as Nole has that incredible passing shot, remember when Fed had match points on his racket at their USO battle, I thought it was a lucky shot, silly me, he will continue to win against Fed. How do you defend against that shot? It must be a mind bender to think you have the point and see that rocket fly by you. If he had missed just a handful of them, Fed may have won. But he didn't miss! I don't get to watch a lot these days, but seeing Nole has that weapon down pat now, is what raised my respect for his skills WAY up.

 

[tennisville]

I think he lasted very well, considering it was a very intense match, and all sets were "active" up until the last ball. He seemed quite speedy around the court too, and he served 29 aces, including 5 in a row at one point, and a total of 7 in two service games just before the third set tiebreak.

He obviously needs Rafa out of the draw, but I'm not sure about Nole, although there were several issues for Nole to contend with yesterday, and he seemed to handle them all eventually.

For fitness and speed and shotmaking, Roger's age didn't seem a factor yesterday. But, I think it could be a factor if he has a tougher draw, and plays a match like this in the semis - then has Nole or Rafa waiting in the final. His ability to recover in time from long arduous matches would certainly be hampered by his age...

He lasted well but you have to remember his aces and unreturnable serves ensured the points were short in the match.. There were hardly any long rallies in this match still by the end of the match his service speed had dropped and his shots lacked the power. Because it was grass , I think he could last this far .On the hards he wont be able to play like this for 4 hours.

Remember he got gassed in the 5th against Murray in last years AO Semi final and that was 1.5 years ago.

I feel Novak has to be taken out because Novak on his worst surface was able to beat Federer on his best. That is something

 

[Front242]

People are completely overlooking so many things here imo. It took 5 sets and one break in the 5th set for a 27 year old Novak in his prime to beat grandad Roger who's 33 next month. Sure, it's Novak's worst surface but having won it before and against Nadal, who when he makes it past week 1 plays very well on grass, he's hardly really that bad either! Anyone who's won Wimbledon is clearly not exactly bad on the surface. Also, Roger played an extremely poor 3rd set TB. He could easily have played a lot better there so Novak really got a big helping hand there. With even 10% better ROS and a few more decent serves in the 5th set, Roger could've won it. His service speed and ground strokes lacked the pace of the earlier sets by the time set 5 came around. In fact if Roger had even held there for 5-5 it was anyone's match imo. Just wish he hadn't played such a predictably poor last service game as I knew it was coming and would've liked if Novak had won by hitting winners or serving it out as opposed to Roger making 4 ufes but he still played a great match and has much to be proud of given his age and sheer number of matches played.

The fact that Roger sees this as a stepping stone to better things is pretty incredible. He has a very good chance of winning Cincy if keeps up this form. He loves the fast courts there and so do I. A refreshing change from most of the slow hard courts out there besides Dubai.

 

[DarthFed]

I think he lasted very well, considering it was a very intense match, and all sets were "active" up until the last ball. He seemed quite speedy around the court too, and he served 29 aces, including 5 in a row at one point, and a total of 7 in two service games just before the third set tiebreak.

He obviously needs Rafa out of the draw, but I'm not sure about Nole, although there were several issues for Nole to contend with yesterday, and he seemed to handle them all eventually.

For fitness and speed and shotmaking, Roger's age didn't seem a factor yesterday. But, I think it could be a factor if he has a tougher draw, and plays a match like this in the semis - then has Nole or Rafa waiting in the final. His ability to recover in time from long arduous matches would certainly be hampered by his age...

He lasted well but you have to remember his aces and unreturnable serves ensured the points were short in the match.. There were hardly any long rallies in this match still by the end of the match his service speed had dropped and his shots lacked the power. Because it was grass , I think he could last this far .On the hards he wont be able to play like this for 4 hours.

Remember he got gassed in the 5th against Murray in last years AO Semi final and that was 1.5 years ago.

I feel Novak has to be taken out because Novak on his worst surface was able to beat Federer on his best. That is something

Yeah but it is still one match. Nole won't always play like he did yesterday. And aside from serving Roger could have played a heck of a lot better.

But the problem is still the same, it is clear Roger isn't going to beat anyone good in a 5th set. It's been that way for years and now, with fitness becoming an issue as he has aged, it is a sure thing. Djoker is now 3-0 vs. him in 5th sets and I'd imagine the memory of the first 2 helped him easily recover from the 4th set disappointment. And on the flip side I'd imagine all the tight losses in the big matches he's had the past 5-6 years weighed on Roger's mind as well. He played a tentative 5th and then tired out.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Except he didn't prove he can compete over 5. The problem I see is Roger realistically needs to win 3 out of 4 sets vs the top guys and they only need to win 2 of the first 4 vs. him. The pivotal set was #3 and though Roger fought incredibly well in set 4 he was still easily beaten in the 5th despite all the momentum imaginable.

Good point Darth, IMO, Fed's best stand was the 3rd set, He served maybe 14-18 aces and it took a rejunvinated Novak to win in a tiebreaker. Fed showed true grit in the 4th but it was a few ufes in the 5th that gave Djoker the victory.

 

[Kieran]

Darth, why do you think Roger has a relatively poor record in the fifth set?