Did Djokovic really play that poorly?

[DarthFed]

^ Same reason Nole has looked awful at every slam loss since RG 2012 except parts of RG 2013.

Uh, no, it's really not. I'm sorry, but equating playing Andy Murray at Wimbledon or the US Open (no disrespect to Murray) to playing Rafael Nadal on Chatrier in hot conditions is insane.

I wasn't comparing playing Nadal at RG to Murray at Wimbledon or USO. I was comparing Djokovic's lousy performance at pretty much every non AO slam since 2012. Aside from RG 2013 Djokovic's last 6-7 slam losses have been of the "wtf happened to him" variety.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ Same reason Nole has looked awful at every slam loss since RG 2012 except parts of RG 2013.

Uh, no, it's really not. I'm sorry, but equating playing Andy Murray at Wimbledon or the US Open (no disrespect to Murray) to playing Rafael Nadal on Chatrier in hot conditions is insane.

I wasn't comparing playing Nadal at RG to Murray at Wimbledon or USO. I was comparing Djokovic's lousy performance at pretty much every non AO slam since 2012. Aside from RG 2013 Djokovic's last 6-7 slam losses have been of the "wtf happened to him" variety.

No, I get what you're saying, but you can't group them all under the same category because the magnitude of the task was not the same.

 

[Front242]

You have a strange fixation on these things: Nole should win, but a loss would be a disaster for Rafa.

How can we square these two positions, given that you also seem to view the loss as a disaster of sorts for Nole...

Both of them had a lot invested in the match and it is logical to think that both had plenty of reason to believe they would win coming in. It'd be a big loss for whoever took it...

And yet, it's a match that's always going to be Rafa's to lose, given how brutally dominant he is over five on clay, so how is it a bad loss for Novak?

It's pretty bad given the momentum and 4 straight wins for Novak coming in to RG. Save for a botched routine volley, Daniel Brands last year did better against Rafa than Novak this year. It wasn't a final but so what. He was closer to a 2 zip lead than Novak was, maybe some would prefer to call it a draw but imo Brands was doing better since he actually made a 2nd set TB. Novak played a rotten stinker of a service game at 5-6 2nd set and didn't even make it to a TB.

 

[Front242]

Kieran, now you are just being downright funny. Nadal won the second set 7-5. That was either man's set. Nadal did not win it 6-1 or 6-0 or even 6-3.

And you may not think Nadal was in danger of losing that set, but Nadal clearly thought so. After watching Nadal so much over the years, you should have a better sense of when he is in sense of urgency" mode, when he starts walking faster between points, going after the forehand more, and being very quick in his defensive reactions. That is his desperation mode, and he was clearly in that mode in set 2. He knew better than you apparently that he was not going to come back from 2 sets down against Djokovic.

Exactly, brother: he was a set behind and he put the hammer down and won the set, having never once been behind in it.

So...when was he "on the ropes?"

He was behind, that's all. Not on the ropes...

He put the hammer down?! Nah, more like Novak played like a player ranked in the 500s and blew it.

 

[DarthFed]

^ Same reason Nole has looked awful at every slam loss since RG 2012 except parts of RG 2013.

Uh, no, it's really not. I'm sorry, but equating playing Andy Murray at Wimbledon or the US Open (no disrespect to Murray) to playing Rafael Nadal on Chatrier in hot conditions is insane.

I wasn't comparing playing Nadal at RG to Murray at Wimbledon or USO. I was comparing Djokovic's lousy performance at pretty much every non AO slam since 2012. Aside from RG 2013 Djokovic's last 6-7 slam losses have been of the "wtf happened to him" variety.

No, I get what you're saying, but you can't group them all under the same category because the magnitude of the task was not the same.

Can't argue that. Some losses are worse than others. This one was bad not because he lost a fairly straight forward 4 set match to the best ever on clay, but more that he went away so easily in what was probably the 2nd most important match of his career (RG 2012 was bigger since that'd have been 4 straight).

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, now you are just being downright funny. Nadal won the second set 7-5. That was either man's set. Nadal did not win it 6-1 or 6-0 or even 6-3.

And you may not think Nadal was in danger of losing that set, but Nadal clearly thought so. After watching Nadal so much over the years, you should have a better sense of when he is in sense of urgency" mode, when he starts walking faster between points, going after the forehand more, and being very quick in his defensive reactions. That is his desperation mode, and he was clearly in that mode in set 2. He knew better than you apparently that he was not going to come back from 2 sets down against Djokovic.

Exactly, brother: he was a set behind and he put the hammer down and won the set, having never once been behind in it.

So...when was he "on the ropes?"

He was behind, that's all. Not on the ropes...

He put the hammer down?! Nah, more like Novak played like a player ranked in the 500s and blew it.

He blew what?

Sheesh! The way people are talking about this match, you'd swear Nole was playing a lush and threw away a two sets lead. He didn't blow it at all, he fought back as well as he could in the fourth when it seemed like Rafa might close him off. He was also visibly not well.

Again I ask: are people holding Novak to a higher standard than they hold Rafa, because that's what it sounds like.

And why am I defending Novak, where are his own fans to do this?

 

[rafanoy1992]

Kieran, now you are just being downright funny. Nadal won the second set 7-5. That was either man's set. Nadal did not win it 6-1 or 6-0 or even 6-3.

And you may not think Nadal was in danger of losing that set, but Nadal clearly thought so. After watching Nadal so much over the years, you should have a better sense of when he is in sense of urgency" mode, when he starts walking faster between points, going after the forehand more, and being very quick in his defensive reactions. That is his desperation mode, and he was clearly in that mode in set 2. He knew better than you apparently that he was not going to come back from 2 sets down against Djokovic.

Exactly, brother: he was a set behind and he put the hammer down and won the set, having never once been behind in it.

So...when was he "on the ropes?"

He was behind, that's all. Not on the ropes...

He put the hammer down?! Nah, more like Novak played like a player ranked in the 500s and blew it.

He blew what?

Sheesh! The way people are talking about this match, you'd swear Nole was playing a lush and threw away a two sets lead. He didn't blow it at all, he fought back as well as he could in the fourth when it seemed like Rafa might close him off. He was also visibly not well.

Again I ask: are people holding Novak to a higher standard than they hold Rafa, because that's what it sounds like.

And why am I defending Novak, where are his own fans to do this?

That's the thing Kieran, everytime Federer, Djokovic, and Murray lose to Nadal, Darth and Front believe they played poorly against Nadal instead of Nadal playing well enough to win.

 

[DarthFed]

You are defending Novak because you are happy he proved to be an easy out in what was projected to be a brutal battle.

 

[DarthFed]

Kieran, now you are just being downright funny. Nadal won the second set 7-5. That was either man's set. Nadal did not win it 6-1 or 6-0 or even 6-3.

And you may not think Nadal was in danger of losing that set, but Nadal clearly thought so. After watching Nadal so much over the years, you should have a better sense of when he is in sense of urgency" mode, when he starts walking faster between points, going after the forehand more, and being very quick in his defensive reactions. That is his desperation mode, and he was clearly in that mode in set 2. He knew better than you apparently that he was not going to come back from 2 sets down against Djokovic.

Exactly, brother: he was a set behind and he put the hammer down and won the set, having never once been behind in it.

So...when was he "on the ropes?"

He was behind, that's all. Not on the ropes...

He put the hammer down?! Nah, more like Novak played like a player ranked in the 500s and blew it.

He blew what?

Sheesh! The way people are talking about this match, you'd swear Nole was playing a lush and threw away a two sets lead. He didn't blow it at all, he fought back as well as he could in the fourth when it seemed like Rafa might close him off. He was also visibly not well.

Again I ask: are people holding Novak to a higher standard than they hold Rafa, because that's what it sounds like.

And why am I defending Novak, where are his own fans to do this?

That's the thing Kieran, everytime Federer, Djokovic, and Murray lose to Nadal, Darth and Front believe they played poorly against Nadal instead of Nadal playing well enough to win.

I think Rafa gets enough credit from people who like him. I've even given the POS credit on occasion :s

 

[Kieran]

You are defending Novak because you are happy he proved to be an easy out in what was projected to be a brutal battle.

Haven't you heard, brother? I projected this one to be done in four. Brother Cali will confirm that I was certain about this. I'm happy, but I'm not surprised. It's Rafa, after all...

 

[Kieran]

That's the thing Kieran, everytime Federer, Djokovic, and Murray lose to Nadal, Darth and Front believe they played poorly against Nadal instead of Nadal playing well enough to win.

Exactly. It's no coincidence that the ones attacking Nole are the ones who detest young Ralph the most... :s

 

[DarthFed]

Congrats if you projected it to be the walk in the park that it was. And in true Rafa fashion you feel the need to talk of how "amazing" the vanquished was. I've seen you describe the loser of matches as heroic even...and this is a one on one contest.

 

[Kieran]

Congrats if you projected it to be the walk in the park that it was. And in true Rafa fashion you feel the need to talk of how "amazing" the vanquished was. I've seen you describe the loser of matches as heroic even...and this is a one on one contest.

Don't be so hard on Novak, buddy: Rafa walked in the Paris park over Roger enough times, when Roger was still in his prime...

 

[DarthFed]

Yes, and I've seen you talk of how awesome Roger is too...when he loses. That's my point.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Congrats if you projected it to be the walk in the park that it was. And in true Rafa fashion you feel the need to talk of how "amazing" the vanquished was. I've seen you describe the loser of matches as heroic even...and this is a one on one contest.

Don't be so hard on Novak, buddy: Rafa walked in the Paris park over Roger enough times, when Roger was still in his prime...

By the way Kieran, it looks like I was right. Nadal's abysmal play after Australian Open was the result of Nadal not able compete well during that final.

I think just like us, that loss in the final affected him mentally.

 

[Front242]

Kieran, now you are just being downright funny. Nadal won the second set 7-5. That was either man's set. Nadal did not win it 6-1 or 6-0 or even 6-3.

And you may not think Nadal was in danger of losing that set, but Nadal clearly thought so. After watching Nadal so much over the years, you should have a better sense of when he is in sense of urgency" mode, when he starts walking faster between points, going after the forehand more, and being very quick in his defensive reactions. That is his desperation mode, and he was clearly in that mode in set 2. He knew better than you apparently that he was not going to come back from 2 sets down against Djokovic.

Exactly, brother: he was a set behind and he put the hammer down and won the set, having never once been behind in it.

So...when was he "on the ropes?"

He was behind, that's all. Not on the ropes...

He put the hammer down?! Nah, more like Novak played like a player ranked in the 500s and blew it.

He blew what?

Sheesh! The way people are talking about this match, you'd swear Nole was playing a lush and threw away a two sets lead. He didn't blow it at all, he fought back as well as he could in the fourth when it seemed like Rafa might close him off. He was also visibly not well.

Again I ask: are people holding Novak to a higher standard than they hold Rafa, because that's what it sounds like.

And why am I defending Novak, where are his own fans to do this?

People are merely (correctly) saying Novak played nowhere near his potential that's all. Even playing with whatever food poisoning/flu he had he still won set 1 and probably should've won set 2 also, definitely should have at least taken it to a TB anyway. Nadal wasn't a warrior or any of this nonsense in set 2. Novak very timidly gave up both breaks in that set. After fighting back to get it to 4-4 in set 4 when Nadal was as tired looking as I've ever seen him he again played poorly, eventually losing the match on a DF ffs! Everyone and his dog knows Novak did not play well.

 

[Kieran]

Congrats if you projected it to be the walk in the park that it was. And in true Rafa fashion you feel the need to talk of how "amazing" the vanquished was. I've seen you describe the loser of matches as heroic even...and this is a one on one contest.

Don't be so hard on Novak, buddy: Rafa walked in the Paris park over Roger enough times, when Roger was still in his prime...

By the way Kieran, it looks like I was right. Nadal's abysmal play after Australian Open was the result of Nadal not able compete well during that final.

I think just like us, that loss in the final affected him mentally.

Yeah, he went into a bit of a slump. He's still strapping the back, and he looked a bit compromised at the end of the final, so thankfully it didn't go to five. Nole was the stronger man physically, at the finish.

Rafa has said he started to get his enthusiasm and motivation back over the last month. I think being on the clay has that affect on him...

 

[Kieran]

Yes, and I've seen you talk of how awesome Roger is too...when he loses. That's my point.

Well, I gotta hand it to him, he's a trier...

 

[DarthFed]

^ You handed it to him the times he has been a loser. The pattern is rather obvious.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Congrats if you projected it to be the walk in the park that it was. And in true Rafa fashion you feel the need to talk of how "amazing" the vanquished was. I've seen you describe the loser of matches as heroic even...and this is a one on one contest.

Don't be so hard on Novak, buddy: Rafa walked in the Paris park over Roger enough times, when Roger was still in his prime...

By the way Kieran, it looks like I was right. Nadal's abysmal play after Australian Open was the result of Nadal not able compete well during that final.

I think just like us, that loss in the final affected him mentally.

Yeah, he went into a bit of a slump. He's still strapping the back, and he looked a bit compromised at the end of the final, so thankfully it didn't go to five. Nole was the stronger man physically, at the finish.

Rafa has said he started to get his enthusiasm and motivation back over the last month. I think being on the clay has that affect on him...

Now, the question is: I wonder what grass will give him?