Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Audio Tape...

[calitennis127]

It is you who are stereotyping black players as selfish guys who can't/won't play team ball, won't play defense, etc.

:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing

Are you kidding me? Okay Mr. "Terrell Owens could get the ball 15 times, but he still wasn't satisfied". (That was one of the most absurd comments I have ever heard you make.)

The phenomenon of highly talented black players in the NBA and NFL being maligned for their mindset and attitude is so pervasive that you would have to be an oblivious fool to deny it. And the ones maligning them most are actually members of the leftist media, who are mostly white.

You could spend 2 straight weeks of googling articles about Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Chad Ochocinco, Allen Iverson, JR Smith, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James circa 2010, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, and others, and you would find enough racially charged venom to satisfy a professor doing research on the history of racism in the last 5 centuries - and that venom is coming from run-of-the-mill sports journalists living in major cities.

 

[calitennis127]

Please define "individualistic modern black basketball". The term in and of itself is stereotypical. People who see Lebron and Wade as selfish, "modern individual black players" or And 1 type players are completely blind.

We've already had this discussion. You see the flashy, selfish inefficient players like J.R. Smith and Ricky Davis as the "ideal players" and the guys who play team ball like Chris Paul, Duncan, etc. are overrated. And if the Spurs organization was truly racist it wouldn't matter if it was black players from America or overseas, they'd still hate them all the same. They had Stephen Jackson on the team for many years. I am going to go out on a limb and say he is a good example of your "individualistic modern black player".

LOL.....you make this too easy.

The Stephen Jackson retort was so predictable. Well here's the answer - Popovich saw him as mildly useful in a limited role. But he would never want more than one or two players like that on his roster. It's also telling that the Spurs let him walk in his prime, and they released him last year right before the playoffs. That's the history of such an affectionate relationship, isn't it?

They never liked Jackson all that much. Popovich is just smart enough to realize that his team is so soft and lame that they could use a "little nasty" as he would put it to have a Stephen Jackson give them some minutes.

Not to mention - the Spurs treated DeJuan Blair like garbage. They played Tiago Splitter over him. Care to explain that one Darth? LOL!

As for LeBron - are you kidding me? He is only being accepted now because he has two rings. Don't you remember the fallout from "The Decision" in 2010? How about the reaction to his loss in the Finals of 2011? The man must have been called "immature" and "self-absorbed" and "too egotistical" and "someone who gets in his own way" 5,000 times per minute during the summer of 2011, by the same weak-minded white losers in the media who are obsessing over Donald Sterling's comments no less.

LeBron was called childish and a cowardly showboater over and over in 2009, 2010, and 2011. And I shudder at the thought of what he would have heard if he didn't save the day in Game 6 at Boston two years ago.

And, as far as Wade goes, don't forget the mockery of him, LeBron, and Bosh for how they got on that stage in Miami, acting like rappers, with LeBron declaring "Not 5, not 6, not 7".

Now - as for LeBron and Wade and the type of players they are. They are smart basketball players, but they are also undoubtedly street in their style as well. Much of what they do is straight out of the hood, whether it's LeBron's tomahawks or fade-aways, or Wade's drives and floaters. Or when Durant does a crossover in someone's eye and drains the three. That is individualistic urban basketball. And where many basketball coaches, white and black, are completely stupid is that they see And-1 mixtape ball or street ball as pure nonsense, when it isn't. The ball-handling and the dribble moves should be admired, and that element can be separated from the narrow-minded intention to just embarrass somebody. So, in a very real sense, LeBron and Wade are And-1 style players. They have that streak in them. Plus, they have the self-presentation and swagger to come across as authentic. Parker and Ginobili may have some nice moves, but no one in their right mind would ever consider either a thug.

"Individualistic modern black basketball" is simply a reality. It is a style of basketball that is centered on dynamic and emphatic playmaking by ONE single participant of the game, usually in an abrupt and very emotional manner. It can be a double cross-over into a clever floater, or a high-degree-of-difficulty stepback shot, or an emphatic block. This is black urban basketball. It is in stark contrast to "alright guys, let's call out play 2 and run the offense. No shots until we've made at least 8 passes. Work it around".

As for this remark: "And if the Spurs organization was truly racist it wouldn't matter if it was black players from America or overseas, they'd still hate them all the same."

Again, you are defining race in the simplest and most shallow way possible as nothing more than the color of a crayon. Yes, the Spurs will take Boris Diaw and a little fruit like Tony Parker. Would they ever come within 10 miles of, say, selecting Lance Stephenson in a draft, or building their team around Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade?

No, no, and no.

The Spurs have Matt Bonner on their roster. Enough said. This is 2014 and the man wears New Balance shoes and shoots the ball over his right shoulder like he is shotputting. He is straight out of the 1950's. There is no justification whatsoever for having him on an NBA roster. There isn't a team in the D-League that doesn't have at least 8 players who are more deserving of a roster spot than he is.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

How do the players play for this guy?

I know. It must be the most inhumane thing in the world to live in Los Angeles while getting paid $10 million per year for playing basketball, even when - in the case of DeAndre Jordan - you have no basketball skill and can't make more than 35% of your free throws. The horror of that life must be incalculable.

I love money as much as the next guy...But if my boss tells me he does not like me and my kind, I will make my money somewhere else. You might have different standards in your life. I have to respect the person that I make money for. That does not mean I have to LOVE him or agree with everything he says or does. But on a basic level, I have to respect him and I want to be respected in return.

I have never worked for anyone or played for anyone who I thought had much of any clue what they were doing, so I am used to functioning in life despite the fact that I think people in leadership positions are stupid.

As for the Clipper players and Sterling - the Clippers players hardly even see Sterling on a day-to-day basis. He isn't their coach. He is a distant far-off figure to them. He is irrelevant in their daily lives.

I am sorry you never had a boss that was worth respecting. I respect mine. He started with a tiny shop 50 years ago and through hard work and good policies, made it to 60 big stores. He worked hard.


As far as Clippers players and Sterling, sure, up until yesterday, they probably never saw him , maybe excepting the day they signed contracts and never cared for him one way or the other. But NOW, they do...because any self respecting person would. As of yesterday , he is not irrelevant anymore. Maybe ignorance IS bliss, but still I'd rather know.

 

[calitennis127]

And yes, black people are generally better than white people at basketball. Just look at the percentages and look at the best players in the league today and in history.

I don't think you realize this, but even this statement would qualify you as racist in the eyes of the American media and many in academia. You are acknowledging such a thing as racial difference at all and that makes you a racist.

In fact, the black sprinter Michael Johnson said very innocently two years ago that he believes there may be "something genetic" to explain why all of the best sprinters he has been around in his career are of African or Caribbean descent, and ESPN spent two days chastising him for his "ignorance".

 

[calitennis127]

How do the players play for this guy?

I know. It must be the most inhumane thing in the world to live in Los Angeles while getting paid $10 million per year for playing basketball, even when - in the case of DeAndre Jordan - you have no basketball skill and can't make more than 35% of your free throws. The horror of that life must be incalculable.

I love money as much as the next guy...But if my boss tells me he does not like me and my kind, I will make my money somewhere else. You might have different standards in your life. I have to respect the person that I make money for. That does not mean I have to LOVE him or agree with everything he says or does. But on a basic level, I have to respect him and I want to be respected in return.

I have never worked for anyone or played for anyone who I thought had much of any clue what they were doing, so I am used to functioning in life despite the fact that I think people in leadership positions are stupid.

As for the Clipper players and Sterling - the Clippers players hardly even see Sterling on a day-to-day basis. He isn't their coach. He is a distant far-off figure to them. He is irrelevant in their daily lives.

I am sorry you never had a boss that was worth respecting. I respect mine. He started with a tiny shop 50 years ago and through hard work and good policies, made it to 60 big stores. He worked hard.


As far as Clippers players and Sterling, sure, up until yesterday, they probably never saw him , maybe excepting the day they signed contracts and never cared for him one way or the other. But NOW, they do...because any self respecting person would. As of yesterday , he is not irrelevant anymore. Maybe ignorance IS bliss, but still I'd rather know.

This is ridiculous Murat. I have a balanced view of people I have worked under. I see some strengths in them, but I also see weaknesses, flaws, and at times stupidity. So how is Donald Sterling any different?

The man is obviously not an idiot. He has made himself into a billionaire. I'm sure he has given some people intelligent business advice over the years. He has also paid many black athletes handsomely. Why is all of that now meaningless and irrelevant?

If we are judging someone's character, shouldn't we take everything into account?

If someone gets drunk and gets cited for disorderly conduct, should we only define them by that one incident and forever damn them as an irresponsible, immature dolt?

 

[DarthFed]

And yes, black people are generally better than white people at basketball. Just look at the percentages and look at the best players in the league today and in history.

I don't think you realize this, but even this statement would qualify you as racist in the eyes of the American media and many in academia. You are acknowledging such a thing as racial difference at all and that makes you a racist.

In fact, the black sprinter Michael Johnson said very innocently two years ago that he believes there may be "something genetic" to explain why all of the best sprinters he has been around in his career are of African or Caribbean descent, and ESPN spent two days chastising him for his "ignorance".

No, a racist comment would be saying player X is better than player Y because he is black. There is a difference between that and saying what is obvious and that being that most of the players in the NBA are black, most of the best players now and in history are black, etc.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

^Context Cali, context...Seriously, are you comparing this situation to , say, a business owner eating too much junk food from time to time? This guy is an owner in a business that predominantly employs black people and he is a racist...

I hear you , people have strengths and weaknesses, but not all of them have equal value. He might be the greatest accountant in the world , or he might be a great father but when you subscribe to the most primitive type of collectivism, basically ascribing moral and social significance to an INDIVIDUAL'S genetic lineage, you are scum.

Racism, as a bad quality to have, is not the same as overeating or not coming to a complete stop on a stop sign...It is a bit more fundamental, don't you agree?

 

[DarthFed]

Please define "individualistic modern black basketball". The term in and of itself is stereotypical. People who see Lebron and Wade as selfish, "modern individual black players" or And 1 type players are completely blind.

We've already had this discussion. You see the flashy, selfish inefficient players like J.R. Smith and Ricky Davis as the "ideal players" and the guys who play team ball like Chris Paul, Duncan, etc. are overrated. And if the Spurs organization was truly racist it wouldn't matter if it was black players from America or overseas, they'd still hate them all the same. They had Stephen Jackson on the team for many years. I am going to go out on a limb and say he is a good example of your "individualistic modern black player".

LOL.....you make this too easy.

The Stephen Jackson retort was so predictable. Well here's the answer - Popovich saw him as mildly useful in a limited role. But he would never want more than one or two players like that on his roster. It's also telling that the Spurs let him walk in his prime, and they released him last year right before the playoffs. That's the history of such an affectionate relationship, isn't it?

They never liked Jackson all that much. Popovich is just smart enough to realize that his team is so soft and lame that they could use a "little nasty" as he would put it to have a Stephen Jackson give them some minutes.

Not to mention - the Spurs treated DeJuan Blair like garbage. They played Tiago Splitter over him. Care to explain that one Darth? LOL!

As for LeBron - are you kidding me? He is only being accepted now because he has two rings. Don't you remember the fallout from "The Decision" in 2010? How about the reaction to his loss in the Finals of 2011? The man must have been called "immature" and "self-absorbed" and "too egotistical" and "someone who gets in his own way" 5,000 times per minute during the summer of 2011, by the same weak-minded white losers in the media who are obsessing over Donald Sterling's comments no less.

LeBron was called childish and a cowardly showboater over and over in 2009, 2010, and 2011. And I shudder at the thought of what he would have heard if he didn't save the day in Game 6 at Boston two years ago.

And, as far as Wade goes, don't forget the mockery of him, LeBron, and Bosh for how they got on that stage in Miami, acting like rappers, with LeBron declaring "Not 5, not 6, not 7".

Now - as for LeBron and Wade and the type of players they are. They are smart basketball players, but they are also undoubtedly street in their style as well. Much of what they do is straight out of the hood, whether it's LeBron's tomahawks or fade-aways, or Wade's drives and floaters. Or when Durant does a crossover in someone's eye and drains the three. That is individualistic urban basketball. And where many basketball coaches, white and black, are completely stupid is that they see And-1 mixtape ball or street ball as pure nonsense, when it isn't. The ball-handling and the dribble moves should be admired, and that element can be separated from the narrow-minded intention to just embarrass somebody. So, in a very real sense, LeBron and Wade are And-1 style players. They have that streak in them. Plus, they have the self-presentation and swagger to come across as authentic. Parker and Ginobili may have some nice moves, but no one in their right mind would ever consider either a thug.

"Individualistic modern black basketball" is simply a reality. It is a style of basketball that is centered on dynamic and emphatic playmaking by ONE single participant of the game, usually in an abrupt and very emotional manner. It can be a double cross-over into a clever floater, or a high-degree-of-difficulty stepback shot, or an emphatic block. This is black urban basketball. It is in stark contrast to "alright guys, let's call out play 2 and run the offense. No shots until we've made at least 8 passes. Work it around".

As for this remark: "And if the Spurs organization was truly racist it wouldn't matter if it was black players from America or overseas, they'd still hate them all the same."

Again, you are defining race in the simplest and most shallow way possible as nothing more than the color of a crayon. Yes, the Spurs will take Boris Diaw and a little fruit like Tony Parker. Would they ever come within 10 miles of, say, selecting Lance Stephenson in a draft, or building their team around Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade?

No, no, and no.

The Spurs have Matt Bonner on their roster. Enough said. This is 2014 and the man wears New Balance shoes and shoots the ball over his right shoulder like he is shotputting. He is straight out of the 1950's. There is no justification whatsoever for having him on an NBA roster. There isn't a team in the D-League that doesn't have at least 8 players who are more deserving of a roster spot than he is.

If you think Donald Sterling or your typical racist differentiates their hatred between "fruity" European blacks (like Tony Parker apparently is) and African-Americans you are kidding yourself. Your argument about the Spurs is so ridiculous that it even exceeds your lofty standards of clownish arguments. I'm not going to dig into their rosters the last 15-20 years but I will not be going out on a limb to say that the vast majority of their players have been black.

Lebron was rightly criticized for the awful way he left Cleveland and also for some of the other things he said. The Heat organization and the players were also criticized for that over the top rockstar celebration they had. I don't see how the criticism had anything to do with race, it just so happened that the 3 stars at the center of the celebration are black. I don't think anyone in the know has ever said Lebron is selfish on the basketball court or plays an And 1 style of play. Any one who has watched him play a full game would realize that's false.

 

[Moxie]

How do the players play for this guy?

M.O.N.E.Y.
uzzled

Darth... Out of interest, If you found out the major shareholder in the company you work for had made racist comments in a private conversation would you quit your job out of principle?

It appears the players will speak out.

They wore their jersys inside out to obscure the logo, and then threw their shooting shirts in a pile on the floor.

It seems they won't go quietly on this one, so it's not just about the money, and yes, some might quit their job out of principal. More to come on this one, surely, but I bet the old guy is out.

 

[Moxie]

And yes, black people are generally better than white people at basketball. Just look at the percentages and look at the best players in the league today and in history.

I don't think you realize this, but even this statement would qualify you as racist in the eyes of the American media and many in academia. You are acknowledging such a thing as racial difference at all and that makes you a racist.

In fact, the black sprinter Michael Johnson said very innocently two years ago that he believes there may be "something genetic" to explain why all of the best sprinters he has been around in his career are of African or Caribbean descent, and ESPN spent two days chastising him for his "ignorance".

You've got a bit of a nerve, Cali, as you say that women don't genetically meet up to men in sports. Don't pretend one thing, and then chastise others for a similar train of thought.

In basketball, it has got quite a lot to do with it being an urban sport. I don't think that Darth is being racist to say that there are a lot of players of African decent in the sport, which is true...he's just not acknowledging all of the reasons why. It's the same as in football (soccer is my intention, but not excluding US football,)…it's cheap to play, and a way out of poverty. It's a great equalizer. Same thing for hispanics in baseball…it's not that you've got a genetic propensity for it; more that they have an economic incentive, and the precedent of others who have come before. Same thing goes for Kenya runners. They seem "born" to it, and specific to a tribe. There is a decent argument, which even tries for the genetic, that still ends up somewhat in the cultural.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Going little away form the specific personality involved, I want to discuss
more generally about racism. Here are some questions. Some may be easy
and some may be difficult. I would appreciate folk's views on them.

Is a white father, who advises his daughter not to out with black men
racist?

I was just wondering as to whether a white woman who would not consider going out
with a black man, is a racist?

If a person who is in a leadership capacity (say a company manager or business owner
etc) always makes hiring, promotion and other business decisions purely based on the
merits of people/issues without considering the race angle at all, but who advises
his children never to marry a black person, a racist?

In other words, is it possible to be professionally non-racist and personally racist?

How does racism interferes with personal preferences? Are you not allowed to have
personal preferences, if you want to claim that you are not a racist?

 

[britbox]

How do the players play for this guy?

M.O.N.E.Y.
uzzled

Darth... Out of interest, If you found out the major shareholder in the company you work for had made racist comments in a private conversation would you quit your job out of principle?

It appears the players will speak out.

They wore their jersys inside out to obscure the logo, and then threw their shooting shirts in a pile on the floor.

It seems they won't go quietly on this one, so it's not just about the money, and yes, some might quit their job out of principal. More to come on this one, surely, but I bet the old guy is out.

I'll be surprised if any of them quit their job. Throwing a vest on the floor is one thing... forfeiting millions of dollars is something else.

 

[britbox]

Going little away form the specific personality involved, I want to discuss
more generally about racism. Here are some questions. Some may be easy
and some may be difficult. I would appreciate folk's views on them.

Is a white father, who advises his daughter not to out with black men
racist?

I was just wondering as to whether a white woman who would not consider going out
with a black man, is a racist?

If a person who is in a leadership capacity (say a company manager or business owner
etc) always makes hiring, promotion and other business decisions purely based on the
merits of people/issues without considering the race angle at all, but who advises
his children never to marry a black person, a racist?

In other words, is it possible to be professionally non-racist and personally racist?

How does racism interferes with personal preferences? Are you not allowed to have
personal preferences, if you want to claim that you are not a racist?

I guess all of the above would be classed as racism... and I'd hazard a guess every single man and woman on earth is racist to some degree.

 

[Moxie]

Going little away form the specific personality involved, I want to discuss
more generally about racism. Here are some questions. Some may be easy
and some may be difficult. I would appreciate folk's views on them.

Is a white father, who advises his daughter not to out with black men
racist?

I was just wondering as to whether a white woman who would not consider going out
with a black man, is a racist?

If a person who is in a leadership capacity (say a company manager or business owner
etc) always makes hiring, promotion and other business decisions purely based on the
merits of people/issues without considering the race angle at all, but who advises
his children never to marry a black person, a racist?

In other words, is it possible to be professionally non-racist and personally racist?

How does racism interferes with personal preferences? Are you not allowed to have
personal preferences, if you want to claim that you are not a racist?

If a white woman wouldn't consider going out with a "black" man, on those grounds, that's racist. If she just doesn't fancy him, it's not. Let me put it this way: my preference is for dark-eyed, dark-haired men. Does that mean that I discriminate against Scandinavian men? No. I just don't prefer them. However, if I were the father that prohibited my daughter from dating/marrying one, yes, I'd be a racist, or somehow anti-Scandinavian bigot.

It may be less clear in the work place. You may hire on merit, but if you are a high-profile person that profits from the work of your (mainly ethnic) workers, and you come out as a bigot, you're going to take some/a lot of heat. Therefore, as to your question, I don't think it's possible to be professionally color-blind, if it comes out publicly that you aren't, personally. Then it only looks like you're exploitative. And, more than anything else, racism is so ugly that you'll lose supporters just by that, alone. Look at that woman Paula Dean…it's not like she employed so many people of color. But there's a level of ugliness that people won't tolerate anymore.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

GSM, all those questions come dome down to this: If you are basing your decision solely on skin color and there is nothing more to it, you are racist. If you say I would not like my daughter to date black guys, you are automatically saying ALL black guys are the same. There is no more preference involved, because you have lumped individuals together that are totally different from each other. That is racism.

 

[DarthFed]

How do the players play for this guy?

M.O.N.E.Y.
uzzled

Darth... Out of interest, If you found out the major shareholder in the company you work for had made racist comments in a private conversation would you quit your job out of principle?

It appears the players will speak out.

They wore their jersys inside out to obscure the logo, and then threw their shooting shirts in a pile on the floor.

It seems they won't go quietly on this one, so it's not just about the money, and yes, some might quit their job out of principal. More to come on this one, surely, but I bet the old guy is out.

I'll be surprised if any of them quit their job. Throwing a vest on the floor is one thing... forfeiting millions of dollars is something else.

I think you're incorrectly equating the NBA players' jobs to those of normal employees (which many on this board figure to be). Trust me, most of those players are going to get that same money elsewhere. If Chris Paul and Blake Griffin demanded a trade at year end the Clippers' phones would be off the hook. They don't need Sterling to make millions and that rings true even for the average NBA player. It is the fans and the league itself that pays these players and the owners too. The Clippers coach, who is one of the most respected in the league, has already expressed doubt that he would come back to coach next year. The players aren't going to boycott now because it is the playoffs. If this happened in the regular season it is possible they would have.

This is different from you and me where if we quit our jobs we might be struggling to find a job for a long time and we might struggle to get by while we find one.

 

[britbox]

Put it this way Darth, I'd imagine there are far more jobs available paying our salaries than there are paying NBA salaries if you're talking about being able to get a "like for like" salary on quitting. There is a finite number of jobs in the NBA and if those guys leave the Clippers then a) They have to find a similar job on a similar salary at another franchise and b) If they do find that job then somebody else is out of work.

Sure, I'm guessing some or maybe even most would find jobs elsewhere... but who would they be hurting? Sterling? Not a great deal... the bigger hit would be on other NBA players who they replace on the roster.

"The players aren't going to boycott now because it is the playoffs" is an interesting comment - one which I agree with because human nature dictates that most people generally put their own interests before wider ranging principles. Not in all cases... but definitely more often than not.

 

[Kieran]

Actually, a boycott during the play-offs would be a huge signal of how strong their principles are, but why let these little things get in the way of the viewing figures?

 

[britbox]

And yes, black people are generally better than white people at basketball. Just look at the percentages and look at the best players in the league today and in history.

I don't think you realize this, but even this statement would qualify you as racist in the eyes of the American media and many in academia. You are acknowledging such a thing as racial difference at all and that makes you a racist.

In fact, the black sprinter Michael Johnson said very innocently two years ago that he believes there may be "something genetic" to explain why all of the best sprinters he has been around in his career are of African or Caribbean descent, and ESPN spent two days chastising him for his "ignorance".

You've got a bit of a nerve, Cali, as you say that women don't genetically meet up to men in sports. Don't pretend one thing, and then chastise others for a similar train of thought.

In basketball, it has got quite a lot to do with it being an urban sport. I don't think that Darth is being racist to say that there are a lot of players of African decent in the sport, which is true...he's just not acknowledging all of the reasons why. It's the same as in football (soccer is my intention, but not excluding US football,)…it's cheap to play, and a way out of poverty. It's a great equalizer. Same thing for hispanics in baseball…it's not that you've got a genetic propensity for it; more that they have an economic incentive, and the precedent of others who have come before. Same thing goes for Kenya runners. They seem "born" to it, and specific to a tribe. There is a decent argument, which even tries for the genetic, that still ends up somewhat in the cultural.

The great taboo is always considering genetic differences. I agree with you that there are cultural differences which lead to greater participation in different sports and hence a different ethnic demographic... but if I'm being honest, then I also believe there are also genetic differences. Across the animal kingdom, genetic differences are recognised between various groupings/breeds/sub-species (call it what you want) but with humans it seems to be a taboo subject.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually, a boycott during the play-offs would be a huge signal of how strong their principles are, but why let these little things get in the way of the viewing figures?

But then players would be paying for the mistake of their owner. Yes, they would be sending an immense message, but all their hard work would be for nothing. After all, they went through an arduous 82-game season plus pre-season, hundreds of practice sessions, days and days traveling on the road, etc...for this very moment. Throwing it all away because your owner is a ignorant bigot might be counterproductive. The best course of action would be to finish the playoffs then take it from there.