Cincinnati Quarterfinal: Federer/Nadal

[DarthFed]

Fed-Roddick Oz 2007 was cat and mouse. If the mouse had fangs the cat mightn't be so cocky, but Federer knew what Roddick could - and couldn't do. He could swing with impunity.

Darth, if you believe that Roger's decline is a natural consequence of aging (and I'm not saying you believe this wholly, so correct me if I'm wrong), why are you so critical of him?

A decline is natural with age but that doesn't tell the whole story with what's going on with him now. Lack of confidence and possibly motivation makes anyone play weak. I think he is still a lot better than he is showing and obviously it is not fun watching him play so poorly.

 

[Kieran]

Thanks Darth.

Just watched highlights of this and was struck by how assertive Roger was, especially in closing in on the first set. The guy rolled back the clock there, no question. He was light on his feet and taking a pop at it. Rafa got going in the second and performed Cali's favourite trick: he ground him down.

Not through physical aggression or fitness, but by persistently playing at a high level. Roger dipped - and Rafa was waiting. I think with Federer there appears to be a sense of inevitability that these moments will come and Rafa is primed to take advantage. In the 3rd, Rafa went up a notch.

I'm also struck by how great a HC player Rafa can be. He uses the whole court, and isn't only defensively waiting out his foe. No, he attacks the net judiciously and plays all-court tennis to win. I think both players are in good shape going to NY, and based on this match, if I were a Fedfan, I'd be more hopeful. Compare this to the Haas fiasco, where his old comrade Tommy dug him out of a hole. In the Nadal match, Federer was aggressive and played a high level.

Personally, I don't see any reason to despair. He's not playing at his usual levels, but he's no makeweight, either. He isn't going to take all 3 others down, but a good draw and a favourable wind and he'll take his chances. And by the way, it's getting so demanding at the top, they'll all want a good draw...

 

[Mog]

Thanks Darth.

Just watched highlights of this and was struck by how assertive Roger was, especially in closing in on the first set. The guy rolled back the clock there, no question. He was light on his feet and taking a pop at it. Rafa got going in the second and performed Cali's favourite trick: he ground him down.

Not through physical aggression or fitness, but by persistently playing at a high level. Roger dipped - and Rafa was waiting. I think with Federer there appears to be a sense of inevitability that these moments will come and Rafa is primed to take advantage. In the 3rd, Rafa went up a notch.

I'm also struck by how great a HC player Rafa can be. He uses the whole court, and isn't only defensively waiting out his foe. No, he attacks the net judiciously and plays all-court tennis to win. I think both players are in good shape going to NY, and based on this match, if I were a Fedfan, I'd be more hopeful. Compare this to the Haas fiasco, where his old comrade Tommy dug him out of a hole. In the Nadal match, Federer was aggressive and played a high level.

Personally, I don't see any reason to despair. He's not playing at his usual levels, but he's no makeweight, either. He isn't going to take all 3 others down, but a good draw and a favourable wind and he'll take his chances. And by the way, it's getting so demanding at the top, they'll all want a good draw...

Good post Kieran.
I think USO is still for mostly for any of the top big ones plus any dark horse.
Roger and Rafa showed good form which is very encouraging. Djoko is still #1 but not at his best. Murray can do it but still a question mark at the moment.
Roger showed he can play but I am not sure about his chances at the USO. It will be very tough for him to beat two or three (Nadal,Murray,Djoko) to win.
I am happy to see his form against Rafa.
At this time there is a slight edge to Rafa at USO.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I think Roger took a huge step forward last night. Sure, losing sucks but just remember the last 6-7 months, you will see the improvement is more than tangible. The problem now for him that is really difficult to overcome, is his ranking. From 4th. round on, he is going to play heavy duty players. To win Us Open, he will have to go through 2-3 slam champions if the tournament goes according to rankings. That is tough because Roger is not at a point where he can raise his game consistently. He might get past 1 of the big three, and then what? I wish he was somehow able to hold on to the 4th. place.

 

[tented]

Fed-Roddick Oz 2007 was cat and mouse. If the mouse had fangs the cat mightn't be so cocky, but Federer knew what Roddick could - and couldn't do. He could swing with impunity.

There's no question Federer had Roddick's number his entire career, thus ending with a 21-3 winning record over him when Andy retired. However, many of their matches were closer than many may remember; often enough Roddick would win a set even though Roger would go on to win the match.

And then there's the '07 Australian Open semifinal.

I think it was Broken who once said that during that match Roger hit a level where he could literally do anything he wanted. It's true. I also remember Mary Carillo basically running out of adjectives and adverbs, and finally saying she'd never seen such a lopsided Grand Slam semifinal in her life.

Also, keep in mind that it was the '07 AO when Roger won a GS without dropping a set for the first time since Borg did it back in the late '70s. Think of the players who had their chances between 1978/79 and 2007, and couldn't do it: McEnroe, Lendl, Connors, Sampras, Agassi, Wilander, Edberg, Becker, Courier, etc. Roger really was that good in Australia in '07.

 

[Mog]

I think Roger took a huge step forward last night. Sure, losing sucks but just remember the last 6-7 months, you will see the improvement is more than tangible. The problem now for him that is really difficult to overcome, is his ranking. From 4th. round on, he is going to play heavy duty players. To win Us Open, he will have to go through 2-3 slam champions if the tournament goes according to rankings. That is tough because Roger is not at a point where he can raise his game consistently. He might get past 1 of the big three, and then what? I wish he was somehow able to hold on to the 4th. place.

Very much agree with you Murat.
For Roger to go through 2-3 champions at this stage will be tough.
As you said he did take a huge step forward last night.
If not at USO , he certainly will have a chance to do better in 2014.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I think Roger took a huge step forward last night. Sure, losing sucks but just remember the last 6-7 months, you will see the improvement is more than tangible. The problem now for him that is really difficult to overcome, is his ranking. From 4th. round on, he is going to play heavy duty players. To win Us Open, he will have to go through 2-3 slam champions if the tournament goes according to rankings. That is tough because Roger is not at a point where he can raise his game consistently. He might get past 1 of the big three, and then what? I wish he was somehow able to hold on to the 4th. place.

Murat.. I have been referring to it as the " Lethal Trifecta" (going thru 3 grand slam champions the caliber of Rafa, Djoker and Murray in a single tournament).. Its really a daunting task to try to accomplish, IMO

 

[Kieran]

It's a good description, AP, and it doesn't only work against Federer. Any if these boys can now face 3 of the others and that's a huge ask, at this level. A good draw would be considered to have DP as an opponent, which is saying something.

Roger needs a 2009 to help him in NY, far as I can see, because he's not beating Rafa, and he's unlikely to beat both Novak and Andy, or even beat either of them. But he has a better chance today than he did 48 hours ago, based on what we saw last night.

And by the way, is there a significant difference between being seeded fifth or seventh? I don't think so...

 

[britbox]

People have low standards for a classic.

Agreed it wasn't a classic (and neither was Rafa/Nole last week). But it was an excellent match with sustained high quality (with the exception of Fed's early 3rd set lull perhaps). That's more than I can say about most tennis matches.

I don't see their relevance of bringing up their past matches (unless people are singing praise for the quality in the past 5 years). Many of their matches are error-filled? Well, this one wasn't.

It wasn't a classic, agreed - the word gets bandied about with too much impunity... but as you've alluded to, it was an entertaining match with some great tennis in phases.

 

[reddy]

I think Roger took a huge step forward last night. Sure, losing sucks but just remember the last 6-7 months, you will see the improvement is more than tangible. The problem now for him that is really difficult to overcome, is his ranking. From 4th. round on, he is going to play heavy duty players. To win Us Open, he will have to go through 2-3 slam champions if the tournament goes according to rankings. That is tough because Roger is not at a point where he can raise his game consistently. He might get past 1 of the big three, and then what? I wish he was somehow able to hold on to the 4th. place.

Agreed on the positives to take out of that QF loss.

If Fed lands in Ferrer's quarter in USO that's almost as good as being seeded #4. IMO the best possible draw for Fed could be Ferrer in QF and Murray in SF.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Thanks Darth.

Just watched highlights of this and was struck by how assertive Roger was, especially in closing in on the first set. The guy rolled back the clock there, no question. He was light on his feet and taking a pop at it. Rafa got going in the second and performed Cali's favourite trick: he ground him down.

Not through physical aggression or fitness, but by persistently playing at a high level. Roger dipped - and Rafa was waiting. I think with Federer there appears to be a sense of inevitability that these moments will come and Rafa is primed to take advantage. In the 3rd, Rafa went up a notch.

I'm also struck by how great a HC player Rafa can be. He uses the whole court, and isn't only defensively waiting out his foe. No, he attacks the net judiciously and plays all-court tennis to win. I think both players are in good shape going to NY, and based on this match, if I were a Fedfan, I'd be more hopeful. Compare this to the Haas fiasco, where his old comrade Tommy dug him out of a hole. In the Nadal match, Federer was aggressive and played a high level.

Personally, I don't see any reason to despair. He's not playing at his usual levels, but he's no makeweight, either. He isn't going to take all 3 others down, but a good draw and a favourable wind and he'll take his chances. And by the way, it's getting so demanding at the top, they'll all want a good draw...

Great analysis, Kieran

Another thing that Nadal is doing well in hardcourts this year especially in the last two weeks is how he hits his forehand aggressively. Whenever he hits that forehand with authority, it is a thing of beauty. He hit some beautiful aggressive forehands last night. He needs to do that in the US Open to win his 2nd US Open crown. Also, he was serving smart when he was down 15-30 on his service games.

 

[Front242]

No post match reaction yet from either guy? I'd especially like to hear Roger's reaction to the final point which he never challenged.

 

[Kieran]

There was an interview with Nadal after the match:

"Eez always the luck, for sure, to beat Roger, no? Eez the best ever, nobody doubt, eez very very lucky to win again, no?"

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

No post match reaction yet from either guy? I'd especially like to hear Roger's reaction to the final point which he never challenged.

“At this point it doesn't matter. I'm sitting here,”

Roger Federer

 

[Mog]

There was an interview with Nadal after the match:

"Eez always the luck, for sure, to beat Roger, no? Eez the best ever, nobody doubt, eez very very lucky to win again, no?"

Good one Kieran.

ez always special when play Roger, no?

 

[Kieran]

There was an interview with Nadal after the match:

"Eez always the luck, for sure, to beat Roger, no? Eez the best ever, nobody doubt, eez very very lucky to win again, no?"

Good one Kieran.

ez always special when play Roger, no?

"Always eez a very special moment, no? Eez lucky always beat Roger, no?"

 

[rafanoy1992]

There was an interview with Nadal after the match:

"Eez always the luck, for sure, to beat Roger, no? Eez the best ever, nobody doubt, eez very very lucky to win again, no?"

Good one Kieran.

ez always special when play Roger, no?

"Always eez a very special moment, no? Eez lucky always beat Roger, no?"

"In my opinion, eez the greatest player of all time, no?"

 

[Emma]

I thought Federer was a bit unlucky to start each set second especially in the 2nd set. The first two sets he played almost flawless but after getting broken in the last game of 2nd set, he broke down mentally and as a result, his game fell apart. This match up is a big mental obstacle for him. His backhand worked most of the time and he used it wisely and that was nice to see, but only to collapse in the final set. I prefer Nadal over Federer given that Federer has won so much, so he really doesn't need another title, but in this match up, I've always found Federer as the under dog and tend to side with him. He really needed to close the deal in 2 sets but unfortunately a couple of points in the last game didn't let him do that. Besides, Nadal knew if he were to lose the set he would lost the match so that automatically made him put more effort than Federer. One is bound to get a bit overwhelmed and not to mention comfortable after the first set win especially over your worst enemy.

 

[Kieran]

There was an interview with Nadal after the match:

"Eez always the luck, for sure, to beat Roger, no? Eez the best ever, nobody doubt, eez very very lucky to win again, no?"

Good one Kieran.

ez always special when play Roger, no?

"Always eez a very special moment, no? Eez lucky always beat Roger, no?"

"In my opinion, eez the greatest player of all time, no?"

"Oh for sure, eez the greatest player of all time, eez nobody beat him, eez no possible but lucky for me, no?"

 

[Mog]

There was an interview with Nadal after the match:

"Eez always the luck, for sure, to beat Roger, no? Eez the best ever, nobody doubt, eez very very lucky to win again, no?"

Good one Kieran.

ez always special when play Roger, no?

"Always eez a very special moment, no? Eez lucky always beat Roger, no?"

"In my opinion, eez the greatest player of all time, no?"

"Oh for sure, eez the greatest player of all time, eez nobody beat him, eez no possible but lucky for me, no?"

I will have to play my best to beat him,no? Very tough, no?