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herios

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Riotbeard said:
I actually agree with pretty much everything Kieran has said. I don't buy the Novak is a one-eyed king bs. You can't blame the king because his subjects are weak. That being said Novak has run the table through a combination of great tennis and weak competition. That is why 2011 will always be the superior year, even if he got six masters and the WTF this year (a real possibility), Nole hasn't played as well consistently, but for the most part the tour hasn't forced him to. There is no reason I can see for Novak to raise his game. He is dominant as is, without mentally straining. This year will never look as impressive, because there was no Rafa there pushing him to new heights. I believe the F.O. final was all about Stan. Could Novak have played a little better? Maybe, but I am not really convinced. He should have been more aggressive throughout the match, but that's a combination of poor tactics and easier said than done. I think Stan played a jaw-dropping match, and to say anything else is foolish.

That being said, if you want to take anything away from Novak, because his competition is subpar (Kieran has not done this, Carol a little bit IMO), it's pretty unfair and silly.

I will always prefer 2015 to 2011 mainly because the 2011 run took a lot out of Novak and by this time during that year he was washed up.
This year he comes to this section of the tour looking very well and ready to take on anyone.
This bodes well for a strong year end, unlike in 2011 and an equally good kick off of the next year.
This is more important at this stage of his career.
 

Fiero425

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Nole overplayed in 2011; actually participating and winning an inaugural event owned by his family I guess in Serbia before the French Open! When you make final after final as Nole has done in the past few years and esp. this season, you have to be more judicious in your appearances and he's done a very good job of that; managing his schedule! He's as fresh as anytime of the year it seems to me while other players are dragging or defaulting altogether! :rolleyes: :cover
 

Kirijax

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Novak is starting to pick and choose his tournaments, just like Federer. I think the three losses (FO, Montreal, Cincinnati) helped him more than anything. Constantly winning can get to a person. Gotta keep it going. Gotta keep it going. We saw that with Serena this year. While it's a shame he missed out on a Grand Slam or a calendar sweep of the Masters, he seems to be centered, sure of himself and perfectly happy where he is, without the pressure of perfection.

Winning the WTF would be too much pressure so I think e should let Murray wrap this season up with a WTF/Davis Cup double-whammy. :cool:
 

shawnbm

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It seems to me that Nole is really in his prime now. His confidence is supremely high. He has had a better year at the majors and the Masters events (and on clay) than in 2011. It is like comparing Nadal in 2010 versus 2013--which was more dominant? Hard to say, but I think id put this year over 2011. He rather routinely disposed of Rafa today and he looked comfortable doing it. Stan and Roger might be the only two who can go toe to toe with him now and they will lose most of the time.
 

Fiero425

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You guys have it, except I don't think he should relent and give up anything; esp. the YEC! He needs to continue piling up numbers on the ATP to get his true and aggregate level in comparison to the GOAT and GOAT-in-waiting! Even though he's owned the last couple seasons, the fans, ad campaigns, and commentators still fall back into talking about Federer and Nadal! It just isn't right, but what can we do? :rolleyes: :p :cover
 

Carol

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Riotbeard said:
I actually agree with pretty much everything Kieran has said. I don't buy the Novak is a one-eyed king bs. You can't blame the king because his subjects are weak. That being said Novak has run the table through a combination of great tennis and weak competition. That is why 2011 will always be the superior year, even if he got six masters and the WTF this year (a real possibility), Nole hasn't played as well consistently, but for the most part the tour hasn't forced him to. There is no reason I can see for Novak to raise his game. He is dominant as is, without mentally straining. This year will never look as impressive, because there was no Rafa there pushing him to new heights. I believe the F.O. final was all about Stan. Could Novak have played a little better? Maybe, but I am not really convinced. He should have been more aggressive throughout the match, but that's a combination of poor tactics and easier said than done. I think Stan played a jaw-dropping match, and to say anything else is foolish.

That being said, if you want to take anything away from Novak, because his competition is subpar (Kieran has not done this, Carol a little bit IMO), it's pretty unfair and silly.
,
Not, I don't, I just say that Federer is not playing his best anymore, Murray and Berdych a lime and
sand, Tsonga worse than years before and Nadal......no comments though he is improving but still not close of his best. It's not unfair and silly, it's a real fact . Of course Novak is playing his best, no doubts about it and also Wawrinka
 

Kieran

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Fiero425 said:
You guys have it, except I don't think he should relent and give up anything; esp. the YEC! He needs to continue piling up numbers on the ATP to get his true and aggregate level in comparison to the GOAT and GOAT-in-waiting! Even though he's owned the last couple seasons, the fans, ad campaigns, and commentators still fall back into talking about Federer and Nadal! It just isn't right, but what can we do? :rolleyes: :p :cover

Maybe if enough of us do what you did and become nouveau-Novaks then he might be talked about more often... :snicker :popcorn :hug :p
 

lacatch

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Carol35 said:
Riotbeard said:
I actually agree with pretty much everything Kieran has said. I don't buy the Novak is a one-eyed king bs. You can't blame the king because his subjects are weak. That being said Novak has run the table through a combination of great tennis and weak competition. That is why 2011 will always be the superior year, even if he got six masters and the WTF this year (a real possibility), Nole hasn't played as well consistently, but for the most part the tour hasn't forced him to. There is no reason I can see for Novak to raise his game. He is dominant as is, without mentally straining. This year will never look as impressive, because there was no Rafa there pushing him to new heights. I believe the F.O. final was all about Stan. Could Novak have played a little better? Maybe, but I am not really convinced. He should have been more aggressive throughout the match, but that's a combination of poor tactics and easier said than done. I think Stan played a jaw-dropping match, and to say anything else is foolish.

That being said, if you want to take anything away from Novak, because his competition is subpar (Kieran has not done this, Carol a little bit IMO), it's pretty unfair and silly.
,
Not, I don't, I just say that Federer is not playing his best anymore, Murray and Berdych a lime and
sand, Tsonga worse than years before and Nadal......no comments though he is improving but still not close of his best. It's not unfair and silly, it's a real fact . Of course Novak is playing his best, no doubts about it and also Wawrinka
Again, Carol, your analysis is inconsistent and hypocritical. Federer is playing better than he has since 2012---did you watch the US OPEN final (as I've asked 3x today)? Andy lost to Novak in Australia, but took him to 5 sets at the French and beat him at Montreal. Roger beat Novak in Cincinnati. Stan has played great at times too (including of course the French). The only past contender who is NOT playing well is Nadal---and we are WELL past the injury excuses. Because Nadal isn't playing well, does that mean that the field is weak? Nope. It does mean that there is less competition than if Nadal WERE playing well, but that could be said about other players as well, or if some of the "young guns" had already stepped up, etc. You also didn't answer my question about Nadal in 2010 and 2013---was he only beating very strong players in every tournament? Nope. Players can only beat their opponents as presented, not some hypothetical opponents. In summary: 1)Novak is playing great tennis and dominating the tour by-in-large; 2) Rafa is playing poorly this year, especially based on historical standards; 3)Roger has re-tooled his game to be more aggressive, has gotten to two slam finals (which no one else has done in 2015 except Novak) and challenges Novak regularly; 4)Andy is getting more aggressive and has come back nicely from his surgery, but still loses to Novak regularly because, well, Novak is generally better than he. 5)Stan has played superb tennis at times and sometimes not, and can also challenge Novak. 6)The younger generation (18-20 year olds) have not come of age, and the Raonic/Nishi etc. generation have underperformed by-in-large. Plenty of competition out there on the tour--some times stronger than others. Again, just because RAFA is not playing well doesn't mean that the tour presents no competition.
 

Carol

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lacatch said:
Carol35 said:
Riotbeard said:
I actually agree with pretty much everything Kieran has said. I don't buy the Novak is a one-eyed king bs. You can't blame the king because his subjects are weak. That being said Novak has run the table through a combination of great tennis and weak competition. That is why 2011 will always be the superior year, even if he got six masters and the WTF this year (a real possibility), Nole hasn't played as well consistently, but for the most part the tour hasn't forced him to. There is no reason I can see for Novak to raise his game. He is dominant as is, without mentally straining. This year will never look as impressive, because there was no Rafa there pushing him to new heights. I believe the F.O. final was all about Stan. Could Novak have played a little better? Maybe, but I am not really convinced. He should have been more aggressive throughout the match, but that's a combination of poor tactics and easier said than done. I think Stan played a jaw-dropping match, and to say anything else is foolish.

That being said, if you want to take anything away from Novak, because his competition is subpar (Kieran has not done this, Carol a little bit IMO), it's pretty unfair and silly.

,
Not, I don't, I just say that Federer is not playing his best anymore, Murray and Berdych a lime and
sand, Tsonga worse than years before and Nadal......no comments though he is improving but still not close of his best. It's not unfair and silly, it's a real fact . Of course Novak is playing his best, no doubts about it and also Wawrinka
Again, Carol, your analysis is inconsistent and hypocritical. Federer is playing better than he has since 2012---did you watch the US OPEN final (as I've asked 3x today)? Andy lost to Novak in Australia, but
took him to 5 sets at the French and beat him at Montreal. Roger beat Novak in Cincinnati. Stan has played great at times too (including of course the French). The only past contender who is NOT playing well is Nadal---and we are WELL past the injury excuses. Because Nadal isn't playing well, does that mean that the field is weak? Nope. It does mean that there is less competition than if Nadal WERE playing well, but that could be said about other players as well, or if some of the "young guns" had already stepped up, etc. You also didn't answer my question about Nadal in 2010 and 2013---was he only beating very strong players in every tournament? Nope. Players can only beat their opponents as presented, not some hypothetical opponents. In summary: 1)Novak is playing great tennis and dominating the tour by-in-large; 2) Rafa is playing poorly this year, especially based on historical
standards; 3)Roger has re-tooled his game to be more aggressive, has gotten to two slam finals (which no one else has done in 2015 except Novak) and challenges Novak regularly; 4)Andy is getting more aggressive and has come back nicely from his surgery, but still loses to Novak regularly because, well, Novak is generally better than he. 5)Stan has played superb tennis at times and sometimes not, and can also challenge Novak. 6)The younger generation (18-20 year olds) have not come of age, and the Raonic/Nishi etc. generation have underperformed by-in-large. Plenty of competition out there on the tour--some times stronger than others. Again, just because RAFA is not playing well doesn't mean that the tour presents no competition.

Well, that's clear what you want to see and I can't do anything against that. You are not going to convince me that all those players are playing great because it's not true. If we talk about to play well the youngest are still in pampers, the ones not so young (between 23-27) not more pampers but also without any MS and GS at all, and 27 and older like I said before, they play well a tournament but three not so good.
Sorry to tell you but 2010 some of the players that I named before were playing better than now. 2013 Novak was playing as well as now but the competition was tougher starting with Nadal playing much better and I don't think he was the only one. Even that Federer was three years without any title he was playing better than Nadal now, and Murray before his back injury was more consistent same like Berdych, Tsonga and Ferrer
 

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Watching the match right now. While I am not a nadal fan, I miss when he was great. There are glimpses of great rallies here (I think Nadal is playing as well or better than he has all year. Not sure that that is much to be hopeful about, given the scoreline), and I miss watching these guys against each other at their bests.
 

herios

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Carol35 said:
herios said:
A logical outcome. Nole was not going to be challenged in his best ever tournament where he has never been defeated.
He kept Rafa at bay, I hope they will meet again soon, to finally straighten that H2H.

Remember, don't count your chickens before the hatch :rolleyes:

I actually have to, because my chickens are hens already ;)
 

herios

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Riotbeard said:
Watching the match right now. While I am not a nadal fan, I miss when he was great. There are glimpses of great rallies here (I think Nadal is playing as well or better than he has all year. Not sure that that is much to be hopeful about, given the scoreline), and I miss watching these guys against each other at their bests.

I got a replacement for Rafa in Wawrinka. He derailed 2 Nole slam runs in the last 2 years.
 

Riotbeard

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herios said:
Riotbeard said:
Watching the match right now. While I am not a nadal fan, I miss when he was great. There are glimpses of great rallies here (I think Nadal is playing as well or better than he has all year. Not sure that that is much to be hopeful about, given the scoreline), and I miss watching these guys against each other at their bests.

I got a replacement for Rafa in Wawrinka. He derailed 2 Nole slam runs in the last 2 years.

I like Stan also, but I enjoyed the Rafa-Nole matches!
 

Carol

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Positive thoughts of Rafa about this last week, the final and his foot.


http://www.chinaopen.com.cn/en/news/2015-10-12/0043901.shtml
 

lacatch

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Carol35 said:
Positive thoughts of Rafa about this last week, the final and his foot.


http://www.chinaopen.com.cn/en/news/2015-10-12/0043901.shtml

Rafa has been repeating that same mantra: "My feeling is better and my game is stronger"--but his results have been poor (especially by historical standards). Good for him for trying to bring his level up, but it's hard as a great champion to accept that your "highs" are generally not going to be at the same level, and with the same frequency, as in the past.
 

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Kirijax said:
Winning the WTF would be too much pressure so I think e should let Murray wrap this season up with a WTF/Davis Cup double-whammy. :cool:

Murray winning WTF! :laydownlaughing

I will give him the DC though. :angel:
 

Kieran

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Riotbeard said:
herios said:
Riotbeard said:
Watching the match right now. While I am not a nadal fan, I miss when he was great. There are glimpses of great rallies here (I think Nadal is playing as well or better than he has all year. Not sure that that is much to be hopeful about, given the scoreline), and I miss watching these guys against each other at their bests.

I got a replacement for Rafa in Wawrinka. He derailed 2 Nole slam runs in the last 2 years.

I like Stan also, but I enjoyed the Rafa-Nole matches!


Tennis misses a full-cry Rafa. It's just not the same sport without him...
 

herios

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Kieran said:
Riotbeard said:
herios said:
I got a replacement for Rafa in Wawrinka. He derailed 2 Nole slam runs in the last 2 years.

I like Stan also, but I enjoyed the Rafa-Nole matches!


Tennis misses a full-cry Rafa. It's just not the same sport without him...

For you Buddy, I prefer this version
 

DarthFed

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Kieran said:
Riotbeard said:
herios said:
I got a replacement for Rafa in Wawrinka. He derailed 2 Nole slam runs in the last 2 years.

I like Stan also, but I enjoyed the Rafa-Nole matches!


Tennis misses a full-cry Rafa. It's just not the same sport without him...

I don't miss it for a second. I'd say tennis could use a strong version of Roger more :p
 

Front242

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Despite the lopsided score yesterday, I thought Nadal's backhand was actually excellent. He tried pretty hard and rallied well much of the time. Just wasn't enough and on top of that it's gotta be more than a bit disheartening as it was clear Novak wasn't even in full flight and didn't really need to be. Novak hasn't really needed to play more than his B game most of the year imo but it's enough to win against everyone but a red hot Roger right now. Red hot Roger lol, sounds like a brothel :snicker