China Open 500

[Carol]

no longer watch Joko s matches...boring

It's not Joko's fault but how the whole Tour is running. What player is playing really well? Wawrinka? and he is not even one of the greatest at all. In the land of the blind, the person with one-eye is the king. I agree, it's getting boring :nono

I would hardly refer to Djokovic, given his superior level of play, as a king with one eye. This is not the first time in recent memory that one player dominates the tour because he's a cut above (Federer and Nadal anyone?). Boring tennis? Did you watch the US OPEN Final? I recently saw a 15 minute highlight reel to refresh my memory, and Roger was playing incredible tennis, and in my opinion would have won against ANY OTHER player on tour EXCEPT Novak. And Andy took Novak to 5 sets at the French, and then Novak was gassed against a superb Stan and lost the final as we know. Andy won the Montreal Masters and Roger in Cincinnati. So let's not confuse Nadal playing like crap (mostly) for the past one
year+ with there being no competition on the men's tour, or saying that Novak is impressive because there's no competition (the old argument about Roger winning slams with no competition).

So who are playing really well and consistent for you? Federer and his new shot? Murray? Berdych? Tsonga? Nadal? Nishi? Raonic? Isner? Fog? If you think that they are playing well then I see that you are watching a diferent sport
It's true that Novak is just doing his job but with all the help of his opponents. The competition is in one stage very low level due to the inconsistency and poor game of most of them, this is what it's and I hope things change soon for the good of this sport and I'm not just talking about my fav but about the rest of the players, the youngest ones and not so young
Novak has showed that he is beatable like anyone else but he is right now the player more consistent and with more confidence of the whole Tour and I can't blame him to take such advantage of this situation

 

[herios]

The only reason he's even trying is because of his ranking and a need for match-play!

And he enjoys getting those paycheques for appearance

 

[Fiero425]

The only reason he's even trying is because of his ranking and a need for match-play!

And he enjoys getting those paycheques for appearance

Well he does have a lot of mouths to feed I guess! :nono :eyepop :cover

 

[lacatch]

It's not Joko's fault but how the whole Tour is running. What player is playing really well? Wawrinka? and he is not even one of the greatest at all. In the land of the blind, the person with one-eye is the king. I agree, it's getting boring :nono

I would hardly refer to Djokovic, given his superior level of play, as a king with one eye. This is not the first time in recent memory that one player dominates the tour because he's a cut above (Federer and Nadal anyone?). Boring tennis? Did you watch the US OPEN Final? I recently saw a 15 minute highlight reel to refresh my memory, and Roger was playing incredible tennis, and in my opinion would have won against ANY OTHER player on tour EXCEPT Novak. And Andy took Novak to 5 sets at the French, and then Novak was gassed against a superb Stan and lost the final as we know. Andy won the Montreal Masters and Roger in Cincinnati. So let's not confuse Nadal playing like crap (mostly) for the past one
year+ with there being no competition on the men's tour, or saying that Novak is impressive because there's no competition (the old argument about Roger winning slams with no competition).

So who are playing really well and consistent for you? Federer and his new shot? Murray? Berdych? Tsonga? Nadal? Nishi? Raonic? Isner? Fog? If you think that they are playing well then I see that you are watching a diferent sport
It's true that Novak is just doing his job but with all the help of his opponents. The competition is in one stage very low level due to the inconsistency and poor game of most of them, this is what it's and I hope things change soon for the good of this sport and I'm not just talking about my fav but about the rest of the players, the youngest ones and not so young
Novak has showed that he is beatable like anyone else but he is right now the player more consistent and with more confidence of the whole Tour and I can't blame him to take such advantage of this situation

For the answer to your own question, please re-read my post.

 

[lacatch]

Congrats to Novak. If I were a Nadal fan, I think I would be encouraged by how Rafa played this tournament. We have to remember this is his least favorite run of the season but he is going at it full blast and making the finals. There's no shame in losing to Djoko right now. Now that he has steppe out of THE FOG :snicker , it will be interesting to see how he goes the rest of the way.

Does anyone know what other tournaments he will be playing till the end of the season?

Beijing was going to be advantageous for Rafa because is a slow HC. Let's see if he can replicate finals runs on the faster courts which he will be playing next.

Well, it seems that the slow HC fits well for Novak, isn't?

Anyway, I like how Rafa was moving playing the first set though his serve wasn't good and that's why he lost.
If he doesn't have any discomfort in his foot even that he has a tough draw in Shanghai I think he wiil
do better, he just needs to improve his serve :dodgy:

Slow hards in Beijing suit Novak's game, as do medium paced hards (Australian Open), Indian Wells (slow to medium hards), Miami (slow hards), Wimbledon (grass) and US Open (medium fast hards), etc. You can try and diminish Novak's achievements by attributing them to the pace of court and lack of competition (in your other comments), but neither argument holds up to the facts.

 

[lacatch]

^^ Why do you say Novak was gassed against Stan in Paris?

Because several commentators noted it at the time (due to the 2 day semi against Andy---physically and mentally draining), and because Novak himself said that his legs didn't move as well as normal/as he would have liked, but he in no way wanted to take away from Stan's great achievement in winning.

 

[Kieran]

^^ Why do you say Novak was gassed against Stan in Paris?

Because several commentators noted it at the time (due to the 2 day semi against Andy---physically and mentally draining), and because Novak himself said that his legs didn't move as well as normal/as he would have liked, but he in no way wanted to take away from Stan's great achievement in winning.

He played for twenty minutes on the Saturday, strolling through the fifth. It was a handy workout, but not too stressful. And before this, did he even drop a set in the tournament? Is he so poorly conditioned that this left him "gassed?"

No, that's not credible.

Plus, it smacks of the excuse we got after the Wimbledon final in 2013, that he was gassed from playing against del Potro. He trains for five set matches, so why wouldn't he be fit enough to play a single one, out of seven? Doesn't make sense! Bloke is a Duracell bunny on court...

 

[lacatch]

^^ Why do you say Novak was gassed against Stan in Paris?

Because several commentators noted it at the time (due to the 2 day semi against Andy---physically and mentally draining), and because Novak himself said that his legs didn't move as well as normal/as he would have liked, but he in no way wanted to take away from Stan's great achievement in winning.

He played for twenty minutes on the Saturday, strolling through the fifth. It was a handy workout, but not too stressful. And before this, did he even drop a set in the tournament? Is he so poorly conditioned that this left him "gassed?"

No, that's not credible.

Plus, it smacks of the excuse we got after the Wimbledon final in 2013, that he was gassed from playing against del Potro. He trains for five set matches, so why wouldn't he be fit enough to play a single one, out of seven? Doesn't make sense! Bloke is a Duracell bunny on court...

You asked me why I said it, and I answered your question. It's MENTAL as well as physical, and playing a stressful match over 2 days is more stressful then a 3 set match played in one day. And Novak himself said it, and while I know you are far from his biggest fan, most would say that Novak is an EXTREMELY fair and gracious competitor. If it came from the horse's mouth, I would tend to believe him over anyone else, since he's not an excuse maker. Finally, you're picking out one phrase which was not central to the point I was making. I'd be more interested in hearing what you had to say about the substance of my point---which was made in response to a post by Carol---than playing ping pong about whether he was or was not gassed---since neither of us has first hand knowledge to resolve that.

 

[Carol]

Beijing was going to be advantageous for Rafa because is a slow HC. Let's see if he can replicate finals runs on the faster courts which he will be playing next.

Well, it seems that the slow HC fits well for Novak, isn't?

Anyway, I like how Rafa was moving playing the first set though his serve wasn't good and that's why he lost.
If he doesn't have any discomfort in his foot even that he has a tough draw in Shanghai I think he wiil
do better, he just needs to improve his serve :dodgy:

Slow hards in Beijing suit Novak's game, as do medium paced hards (Australian Open), Indian Wells
(slow to medium hards), Miami (slow hards), Wimbledon (grass) and US Open (medium fast hards), etc. You can try and diminish Novak's achievements by attributing them to the pace of court and lack of competition (in your other comments), but neither argument holds up to the facts.

You are confused with my comments and you are the one who should re-read them again. I'm not trying to diminish Novak, he is doing well, really well but you can't say that the other players are playing well, maybe they play one good tournament but three not so well starting with Wawrinka who is playing better than the rest of the Tour and sorry to say but he is not a great one. Do you believe if Nadal would have played well RG Wawrinka would have had any option to win the title? really? don't you think that Murray could have won Wimbledon playing better than he did or Roger who has so good record on grass?. Consistency is the key which I don't see too much around (fact) but I don't lose the hope to see something better soon

 

[Kieran]

Because several commentators noted it at the time (due to the 2 day semi against Andy---physically and mentally draining), and because Novak himself said that his legs didn't move as well as normal/as he would have liked, but he in no way wanted to take away from Stan's great achievement in winning.

He played for twenty minutes on the Saturday, strolling through the fifth. It was a handy workout, but not too stressful. And before this, did he even drop a set in the tournament? Is he so poorly conditioned that this left him "gassed?"

No, that's not credible.

Plus, it smacks of the excuse we got after the Wimbledon final in 2013, that he was gassed from playing against del Potro. He trains for five set matches, so why wouldn't he be fit enough to play a single one, out of seven? Doesn't make sense! Bloke is a Duracell bunny on court...

You asked me why I said it, and I answered your question. It's MENTAL as well as physical, and playing a stressful match over 2 days is more stressful then a 3 set match played in one day. And Novak himself said it, and while I know you are far from his biggest fan, most would say that Novak is an EXTREMELY fair and gracious competitor. If it came from the horse's mouth, I would tend to believe him over anyone else, since he's not an excuse maker. Finally, you're picking out one phrase which was not central to the point I was making. I'd be more interested in hearing what you had to say about the substance of my point---which was made in response to a post by Carol---than playing ping pong about whether he was or was not gassed---since neither of us has first hand knowledge to resolve that.

We both know that Novak is probably the most well-conditioned player in the top ten, and if he's feeling gassed after one five set match, the fifth set being a 20 minute affair on Saturday morning - sorry, that's not credible. Doesn't matter who said it.

The rest of your post? Novak is certainly not boring, I said that before you but the tour is feeble at the moment. Murray is weak, Rafa has struggled to find any level above mediocre, Stan is inconsistent. It resembles the tour when Roger was gobbling up slams without beating any great players at their peak...

 

[lacatch]

He played for twenty minutes on the Saturday, strolling through the fifth. It was a handy workout, but not too stressful. And before this, did he even drop a set in the tournament? Is he so poorly conditioned that this left him "gassed?"

No, that's not credible.

Plus, it smacks of the excuse we got after the Wimbledon final in 2013, that he was gassed from playing against del Potro. He trains for five set matches, so why wouldn't he be fit enough to play a single one, out of seven? Doesn't make sense! Bloke is a Duracell bunny on court...

You asked me why I said it, and I answered your question. It's MENTAL as well as physical, and playing a stressful match over 2 days is more stressful then a 3 set match played in one day. And Novak himself said it, and while I know you are far from his biggest fan, most would say that Novak is an EXTREMELY fair and gracious competitor. If it came from the horse's mouth, I would tend to believe him over anyone else, since he's not an excuse maker. Finally, you're picking out one phrase which was not central to the point I was making. I'd be more interested in hearing what you had to say about the substance of my point---which was made in response to a post by Carol---than playing ping pong about whether he was or was not gassed---since neither of us has first hand knowledge to resolve that.

We both know that Novak is probably the most well-conditioned player in the top ten, and if he's feeling gassed after one five set match, the fifth set being a 20 minute affair on Saturday morning - sorry, that's not credible. Doesn't matter who said it.

The rest of your post? Novak is certainly not boring, I said that before you but the tour is feeble at the moment. Murray is weak, Rafa has struggled to find any level above mediocre, Stan is inconsistent. It resembles the tour when Roger was gobbling up slams without beating any great players at their peak...

Ungracious sour grapes when you lad/hombre has been performing poorly. To address your points about the rest of the tour, please re-read my post above responding to Carol's post about the "one eyed king" taking advantage. And if you think you know better about Novak's conditioning/how he felt in the final than Novak himself, God bless. You should fly to Vegas right away with that kind of clarity/insight.

 

[BIG3]

It's hard to take positives from such a one-sided score, but people whose judgment I trust have told me that Rafa looked sharper and more aggressive today. If so, it's small comfort. The score suggests his season of mediocrity has continued. Far too many gaps in his game since he came back in January. It's becoming habitual. But well done to Novak, I imagine it was an expert and clinical display...

The score looks lopsided, still it is very entertaining final. As Nadal said, he saw many positives in this tournament. Let's not compare with PEAK Rafa, 2015 alone, can you name a better tournament? He lifted the trophies only on clay and with very poor competition this year (Hamburg schedule by itself is a laugh). He played more than decent from qf on. Even on today's final, if you watched the whole match, you can find glimpse of vintage Rafa. Yes, he couldn't maintain it, that's where Nole distances himself from the rest of field. I pick it as best tournament for Rafa considering the season, court, and his opponent across the net.

 

[Kieran]

You asked me why I said it, and I answered your question. It's MENTAL as well as physical, and playing a stressful match over 2 days is more stressful then a 3 set match played in one day. And Novak himself said it, and while I know you are far from his biggest fan, most would say that Novak is an EXTREMELY fair and gracious competitor. If it came from the horse's mouth, I would tend to believe him over anyone else, since he's not an excuse maker. Finally, you're picking out one phrase which was not central to the point I was making. I'd be more interested in hearing what you had to say about the substance of my point---which was made in response to a post by Carol---than playing ping pong about whether he was or was not gassed---since neither of us has first hand knowledge to resolve that.

We both know that Novak is probably the most well-conditioned player in the top ten, and if he's feeling gassed after one five set match, the fifth set being a 20 minute affair on Saturday morning - sorry, that's not credible. Doesn't matter who said it.

The rest of your post? Novak is certainly not boring, I said that before you but the tour is feeble at the moment. Murray is weak, Rafa has struggled to find any level above mediocre, Stan is inconsistent. It resembles the tour when Roger was gobbling up slams without beating any great players at their peak...

Ungracious sour grapes when you lad/hombre has been performing poorly. To address your points about the rest of the tour, please re-read my post above responding to Carol's post about the "one eyed king" taking advantage. And if you think you know better about Novak's conditioning/how he felt in the final than Novak himself, God bless. You should fly to Vegas right away with that kind of clarity/insight.

If you have to resort to silly personal jibes, you're only signalling to everyone that you know you're on shaky ground. When Rafa says he's injured, it's an excuse (although that smacks of people saying they know more about Rafa's conditioning than Rafa himself, God bless etc), but when Nole says he was gassed, well let's not mix that up with making excuses. I'd like to think we all know more than this. Novak is too well-conditioned to be gassed after playing for twenty minutes the day before a slam final. Especially in a tourney where he breezed through the first five rounds.

As for the rest of it, the tour is weak at the moment, that much is self-evident. Novak, however, is shining like steel and very impressive in the way he's going about things, for the main part...

 

[Fiero425]

I only woke in time to see the 2nd set, but what about that BULL about the court being too slow and an inability to hit winners? Both had some; obviously Nole had a lot more! Those were grueling points and I agree, the score is quite misleading where both were playing well, but the World's #1 was not giving Rafa air to do much! He's truly dominant and you can't have his fans musing about anything being different in the foreseeable future since this has nothing to do with injury or lack of competitive play! I didn't see much of their exhibition, but Nadal and Djokovic even played one of those that went "lickety split!" Rafa's just not going to challenge Nole at this time; even on clay! :cover

 

[lacatch]

We both know that Novak is probably the most well-conditioned player in the top ten, and if he's feeling gassed after one five set match, the fifth set being a 20 minute affair on Saturday morning - sorry, that's not credible. Doesn't matter who said it.

The rest of your post? Novak is certainly not boring, I said that before you but the tour is feeble at the moment. Murray is weak, Rafa has struggled to find any level above mediocre, Stan is inconsistent. It resembles the tour when Roger was gobbling up slams without beating any great players at their peak...

Ungracious sour grapes when you lad/hombre has been performing poorly. To address your points about the rest of the tour, please re-read my post above responding to Carol's post about the "one eyed king" taking advantage. And if you think you know better about Novak's conditioning/how he felt in the final than Novak himself, God bless. You should fly to Vegas right away with that kind of clarity/insight.

If you have to resort to silly personal jibes, you're only signalling to everyone that you know you're on shaky ground. When Rafa says he's injured, it's an excuse (although that smacks of people saying they know more about Rafa's conditioning than Rafa himself, God bless etc), but when Nole says he was gassed, well let's not mix that up with making excuses. I'd like to think we all know more than this. Novak is too well-conditioned to be gassed after playing for twenty minutes the day before a slam final. Especially in a tourney where he breezed through the first five rounds.

As for the rest of it, the tour is weak at the moment, that much is self-evident. Novak, however, is shining like steel and very impressive in the way he's going about things, for the main part...

Sorry, but you and Carol repeating "the competition is weak, the competition is weak" will not make it true. I've already addressed this point in my post above as stated previously. If it makes you feel better to diminish Novak and Roger's accomplishments by saying that their competition is/was weak (as opposed to Nadal who only competed against the strongest competition in tennis history)---God bless.

 

[Kieran]

You're exaggerating things slightly, but thanks for the blessing, a man can always go with a few of them...

 

[Carol]

Ungracious sour grapes when you lad/hombre has been performing poorly. To address your points about the rest of the tour, please re-read my post above responding to Carol's post about the "one eyed king" taking advantage. And if you think you know better about Novak's conditioning/how he felt in the final than Novak himself, God bless. You should fly to Vegas right away with that kind of clarity/insight.

If you have to resort to silly personal jibes, you're only signalling to everyone that you know you're on shaky ground. When Rafa says he's injured, it's an excuse (although that smacks of people saying they know more about Rafa's conditioning than Rafa himself, God bless etc), but when Nole says he was gassed, well let's not mix that up with making excuses. I'd like to think we all know more than this. Novak is too well-conditioned to be gassed after playing for twenty minutes the day before a slam final. Especially in a tourney where he breezed through the first five rounds.

As for the rest of it, the tour is weak at the moment, that much is self-evident. Novak, however, is
shining like steel and very impressive in the way he's going about things, for the main part...

Sorry, but you and Carol repeating "the competition is weak, the competition is weak" will not make it true. I've already addressed this point in my post above as stated previously. If it makes you feel better to diminish Novak and Roger's accomplishments by saying that their competition is/was weak (as opposed to Nadal who only competed against the strongest competition in tennis history)---God bless.

Ok, every one is playing great, Federer in his peak and better than when he was young, Nadal is playing great, so great that he is giving the chances to everyone to beat him on HC, grass and clay. Muzz the same, I'm impressed, and Tsonga, Berdych and the others I've never seen them so strong and consistent, it's the best and competitive year that I remember, all of them playing their best so far, it's amazing!!!!
Are you happy now? hope yes

 

[Riotbeard]

I actually agree with pretty much everything Kieran has said. I don't buy the Novak is a one-eyed king bs. You can't blame the king because his subjects are weak. That being said Novak has run the table through a combination of great tennis and weak competition. That is why 2011 will always be the superior year, even if he got six masters and the WTF this year (a real possibility), Nole hasn't played as well consistently, but for the most part the tour hasn't forced him to. There is no reason I can see for Novak to raise his game. He is dominant as is, without mentally straining. This year will never look as impressive, because there was no Rafa there pushing him to new heights. I believe the F.O. final was all about Stan. Could Novak have played a little better? Maybe, but I am not really convinced. He should have been more aggressive throughout the match, but that's a combination of poor tactics and easier said than done. I think Stan played a jaw-dropping match, and to say anything else is foolish.

That being said, if you want to take anything away from Novak, because his competition is subpar (Kieran has not done this, Carol a little bit IMO), it's pretty unfair and silly.

 

[lacatch]

If you have to resort to silly personal jibes, you're only signalling to everyone that you know you're on shaky ground. When Rafa says he's injured, it's an excuse (although that smacks of people saying they know more about Rafa's conditioning than Rafa himself, God bless etc), but when Nole says he was gassed, well let's not mix that up with making excuses. I'd like to think we all know more than this. Novak is too well-conditioned to be gassed after playing for twenty minutes the day before a slam final. Especially in a tourney where he breezed through the first five rounds.

As for the rest of it, the tour is weak at the moment, that much is self-evident. Novak, however, is
shining like steel and very impressive in the way he's going about things, for the main part...

Sorry, but you and Carol repeating "the competition is weak, the competition is weak" will not make it true. I've already addressed this point in my post above as stated previously. If it makes you feel better to diminish Novak and Roger's accomplishments by saying that their competition is/was weak (as opposed to Nadal who only competed against the strongest competition in tennis history)---God bless.

Ok, every one is playing great, Federer in his peak and better than when he was young, Nadal is playing great, so great that he is giving the chances to everyone to beat him on HC, grass and clay. Muzz the same, I'm impressed, and Tsonga, Berdych and the others I've never seen them so strong and consistent, it's the best and competitive year that I remember, all of them playing their best so far, it's amazing!!!!
Are you happy now? hope yes

I guess you didn't re-read my post before repeating your same assertion that is not supported by facts. Who won the French--Novak? Nope---an incredible performance by Stan. Did you watch the US Open? Despite having a low percentage of break point conversions ----mostly due to incredible play by Novak--Roger was one shot away from taking a 2-1 lead at the end of the third set. Did you watch Montreal Masters? Andy beat Novak. Did you watch Cincinnati? Roger beat Novak. So many players have turned in very impressive performances in many of the biggest tournaments of the year. The fact that Novak has won 3 slams and several masters speaks to his incredible level of play, not that there is no competition on tour. It's called being #1. I don't recall your saying that Nadal had no competition during his incredible runs in 2010 and 2013. Or did I miss that comment?

 

[Fiero425]

Hit them with the hypocrisy! :cover