Brisbane 2014 - ATP 250

19USC66

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DarthFed said:
Front242 said:
The shocking thing isn't decline but the level of it. His 2012 was great for a guy his age, hell it was a great year by any standards but truly I never expected him to go downhill so fast since then. Back problems or not last year I wouldn't have envisaged him playing that bad even approaching 36 years of age. Anyway, first week of the year and plenty of time and room for improvement hopefully.

This! I never imagined seeing Federer playing at this low of level until maybe age 35-36 which would figure to be his last year. 32 is old but I never expected him to be this awful.

When do loses stop being loses and become embarrassing? Because at this point Roger is embarrassing himself. For me personally? These demonstrations are very sad and pathetic. Nevertheless, I am getting tired of the rhetorical BS spouting from Federer's mouth of the why and wherefore of his game. It's time to put up or retire. People buy tickets to see this guy play. Not go through the motions. Show some effort for goodness sake.
 

Front242

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19USC66 said:
DarthFed said:
Front242 said:
The shocking thing isn't decline but the level of it. His 2012 was great for a guy his age, hell it was a great year by any standards but truly I never expected him to go downhill so fast since then. Back problems or not last year I wouldn't have envisaged him playing that bad even approaching 36 years of age. Anyway, first week of the year and plenty of time and room for improvement hopefully.

This! I never imagined seeing Federer playing at this low of level until maybe age 35-36 which would figure to be his last year. 32 is old but I never expected him to be this awful.

When do loses stop being loses and become embarrassing? Because at this point Roger is embarrassing himself. For me personally? These demonstrations are very sad and pathetic. Nevertheless, I am getting tired of the rhetorical BS spouting from Federer's mouth of the why and wherefore of his game. It's time to put up or retire. People buy tickets to see this guy play. Not go through the motions. Show some effort for goodness sake.

I agree he needs to put in a lot of practice time 'cos you'd feel cheated paying to watch crap like that Brisbane final (first set in particular). I think best of 5 is actually just what he needs as it'll give him a lot of sets to get some proper match practice.
 

DarthFed

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19USC66 said:
DarthFed said:
Front242 said:
The shocking thing isn't decline but the level of it. His 2012 was great for a guy his age, hell it was a great year by any standards but truly I never expected him to go downhill so fast since then. Back problems or not last year I wouldn't have envisaged him playing that bad even approaching 36 years of age. Anyway, first week of the year and plenty of time and room for improvement hopefully.

This! I never imagined seeing Federer playing at this low of level until maybe age 35-36 which would figure to be his last year. 32 is old but I never expected him to be this awful.

When do loses stop being loses and become embarrassing? Because at this point Roger is embarrassing himself. For me personally? These demonstrations are very sad and pathetic. Nevertheless, I am getting tired of the rhetorical BS spouting from Federer's mouth of the why and wherefore of his game. It's time to put up or retire. People buy tickets to see this guy play. Not go through the motions. Show some effort for goodness sake.

Every loss is embarrassing, at least that is the proper attitude in sports. Roger, on the other hand, is at the point where it doesn't seem to bother him and he is losing to guys who either were never good or guys who haven't been good in a decade (see Hewitt). Who knows when he will say enough is enough and dig in, or if it will just be a farewell tour.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Just want to make a quick point regarding ageing gracefully in tennis. Today, it is almost impossible. Because the difference between running down a forehand, getting there just in time and making something with it versus not getting there in time and either butchering it or sending something weak over the net is less than half a second. That half a second difference can make you look like a champ, or an ordinary player...there is no in-between level, really. Happened to Pete, happening to Roger, will happen to your favorite player, whomever he/she might be.

In the past, where tennis was played more at the net, this was easier to hide. One sprint to the net, and than you either made or missed your volleys. Look at Navratilova...she could play till 60 (maybe she did) and hide her disadvantages regarding speed quite well. Not today. Behind the baseline, any drop in quickness, you are toast.

Obviously , I am talking about top level tennis. Roger can get away with a lot of stuff playing weaker opposition (even that is changing, mind you) , but at the very top, you do not have a chance anymore...
 

Front242

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Just to put things in perspective. Obviously Hewitt has had 5 surgeries in the last 4 years and therefore time off so naturally he can't have played as many matches as a result, but even besides injury downtime, the sheer fact that Federer has won so many matches means the level of mental burnout is likely pretty high at this stage.

Career singles record for Federer to date: 926–216 (Wins/Losses)
Career doubles record for Federer to date: 121-82

Career singles record for Hewitt to date: 596–236
Career doubles record for Hewitt to date: 102–72

Similar in terms of doubles ratios but a difference of 330 matches played in singles is like 3-4 full seasons for most players so that's a huge difference in terms of how Roger's level of mental burnout on tour is at this stage. Despite him constantly saying positive stuff to the press, I personally think he's reached the stage where he's mentally exhausted from playing matches and it's affecting his game more than any physical ailments did even last year.

Edit: and Hewitt is actually 6 months older than Federer but mentally has a fresher mindset at this stage despite the surgeries. He shows a lot more fight than Roger these days.
 

brokenshoelace

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I think the main issue with Federer is he doesn't really know which brand of tennis he wants to play now, and I can't fully blame him since it's not as easy as it sounds. Back in 2003, he was super aggressive. Then, with time, he really changed towards a more point construction oriented approach (of course while maintaining the aggression). A decline in movement means neither is that likely now. He just can't play an all out aggressive approach on a match-to-match basis. It might work for a set here and there, or even a couple of matches, but over the long run, it's not going to work. He just doesn't have the speed, footwork and consistency for it.

More worryingly, he can't even play the point construction game he used to do so effortlessly in say, 2006. My biggest frustration with watching Federer against guys like Nadal or Djokovic is knowing he's going to miss first. Whether it's because he pulled the trigger on his forehand but had gotten there a split second later than usual, or his backhand typically breaking down, he's just not consistent enough. The problem is, the same thing is happening against inferior players.

If you look at his vintage performances in the past few years, there are some recurring themes that helped him to those wins. For instance, his 2011 FO win over Djokovic was highlighted by an usually stellar service performance on clay (I say unusual because it's clay), and some otherworldly defense. People forget just how well Roger defended and moved in that match. The other thing that was noteworthy was his backhand. Despite the fact that it missed its fair share of times, Federer had a good idea regarding what he wanted to do with it: use a lot of slices cross court, and change direction by going up the line. The latter in particular, is a shot Federer struggles with mightily nowadays, making his backhand quite predictable, so there's very little risk in going after it if you're his opponent. Meanwhile, the slice is interesting, because while it's a safer shot in the sense that he's not going to miss, it is somewhat harmless on some surfaces (not to mention, useless against someone like Nadal, on any surface). At the AO for example, no matter how good the slice is, the nature of the surface means it's not going to stay low enough. On faster surfaces however, it's a play Federer needs to use more (a la his indoor wins over Del Potro in the past couple of years).

As far as some of his other vintage performances go, almost all of them occurred on faster surfaces. Whether it was the Nadal destruction at the WTF in 2011, the Wimbledon wins over Djokovic and Murray, the Cinci final win over Djokovic, or the wins over Del Potro, all of them came on fast surfaces. Hell, even his first 2 sets in the 2011 US Open semi against Djokovic (which were some of the finest tennis Fed played in the past two years) bore a resemblance to those matches: Federer went after his backhand, attacked the net a lot, used his slice occasionally, and served very well.

The ONLY quality match Fed has produced in the past two years on a slower surface was the Del Potro quarter final at the AO in 2012, and still, that was two years ago, right before a career resurgence. It's difficult to explain why, but for whatever reason, I never gave him a chance against Murray at the AO last year, despite the fact that he pushed it to 5. It just looked like it was an uphill battle. He can't rally with these guys anymore over 5 sets.

He can play clean on occasions, and look like the Fed of old even in longer rallies (ie against Nadal in Cinci last year), but that alone won't be enough. That's why if I were a Fed fan, I'd wait till the second half of the season where we hit the faster surfaces before judging, as I don't think he'll be doing that well elsewhere. For instance, what does he need to do at the AO? How does he need to play? I honestly have no clue. Whereas on grass, it's much more straightforward: Hit through the backhand, even if it misses, use your sliced backhand to set up forehands, and attack the net.

Two shots that I think will be key for Fed's success are the serve and the backhand slice. The latter because it cuts down the unforced errors and allows him to run around his backhand on the subsequent shot, and the former for obvious reasons. Getting free points would relieve him of so much pressure. I'm interesting in seeing how he serves if his back problems are indeed behind him, because that's his only chance at making a run at a major. His serve has been quite crappy for over a year now. Good serving changes things considerably, even on slow surfaces.
 

brokenshoelace

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You know, I finally caught some extended highlights of the Roger-Hewitt match and I really hope Hewitt gets a kind draw at the AO. I'll never get sick of watching him play, as his tennis IQ is one of the most underrated weapons in tennis history. His shot selection is really up there with any player I've ever seen, and even after all these years, he still possesses the best lobs on tour.
 

Front242

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Ah, you forgot Nalbandian lobbing Karlovic :p But yeah, Hewitt's lobs are class and likewise I hope he gets a decent draw. Just not Federer in kill me please I'm playing like a clown mode :D