Boston

[shawnbm]

I was rightly corrected for mentioning radicalized Islamists being behind this Boston bombing last week when it was not yet known who was behind this. We now can see that it was that type of individual(s), most unfortunately. Some of my Moslem friends were scared to think that this latest attack would be linked to their religion and are, understandably, horrified--on top of the foiled terrorist attack on trains between the USA and Canada that likewise involved Islamist extremists linked, this time, to Al-qaeda. I don't know if any of our tennis followers are followers of Islam, but perhaps (if any are) we could be educated on whether this type of extremism tends to more easily "take root" in certain sects of the religion and not others--and what the theories are as to why that may be. Since we are "off topic" here, I would be interested in knowing and in no way seek to offend anyone.

As a Christian, I am well aware there have been extremists of my religion who kill people and have bombed abortion clinics. There have been terrorist attacks between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland, England, between Basque separatists and the nations of Spain and France, etc. Some of the latter were more political battles that drew lines along religious affiliation rather than political party, but creating terror became part of the plan. Even so, the scale and world range of some of the Islamic-based terrorism is far greater than some of what I mentioned. I doubt much of this could happen in a police state a la Hitler or Franco. Is that really the only way to successfully combat this kind of extremism? Thoughts by any of you on this, or is this one too hot to handle (which I would understand as well)?

 

[Moxie]

I really wonder if the recent tragedy in Boston didn't have a lot more to do with disaffected young men, than with radical terrorism? I DO want the government to find out if foreign entities are seeking out these vulnerable young men, but, in many ways, what is so different from Boston, MA; Aurora, CO; Newtown, CT and even the VMA killings?

 

[DarthFed]

I really wonder if the recent tragedy in Boston didn't have a lot more to do with disaffected young men, than with radical terrorism? I DO want the government to find out if foreign entities are seeking out these vulnerable young men, but, in many ways, what is so different from Boston, MA; Aurora, CO; Newtown, CT and even the VMA killings?

The difference between Boston and Aurora and Newtown is that the perps in the latter 2 were clearly insane. Nothing so far suggests that these 2 were insane or even had any kind of mental illness. So far we are left thinking that these were just crimes committed due to a hatred of America/Americans which also separates it from the other 2.

I left out VMA because I am not sure what that stands for?

 

[Moxie]

I really wonder if the recent tragedy in Boston didn't have a lot more to do with disaffected young men, than with radical terrorism? I DO want the government to find out if foreign entities are seeking out these vulnerable young men, but, in many ways, what is so different from Boston, MA; Aurora, CO; Newtown, CT and even the VMA killings?

The difference between Boston and Aurora and Newtown is that the perps in the latter 2 were clearly insane. Nothing so far suggests that these 2 were insane or even had any kind of mental illness. So far we are left thinking that these were just crimes committed due to a hatred of America/Americans which also separates it from the other 2.

I left out VMA because I am not sure what that stands for?

Sorry, I meant Virginia Tech. I think that it should be considered that they were all disaffected and alienated young men of a certain age. I wonder if the Tsarneav brothers were that much more "radical terrorists," than they were misguided young men, like the perpetrators of the other massacres that I mentioned. By a lot of accounts, they were not members of the local Islamic community. I'm not saying that they couldn't have been recruited from the outside, (and I do think that's important to figure out,) but I'm saying that there is something that has to be looked at about young me, and what makes them lash out. And there could be a relationship between these events. And if we just call some "insane," we may well be missing an important connection.

 

[DarthFed]

I really wonder if the recent tragedy in Boston didn't have a lot more to do with disaffected young men, than with radical terrorism? I DO want the government to find out if foreign entities are seeking out these vulnerable young men, but, in many ways, what is so different from Boston, MA; Aurora, CO; Newtown, CT and even the VMA killings?

The difference between Boston and Aurora and Newtown is that the perps in the latter 2 were clearly insane. Nothing so far suggests that these 2 were insane or even had any kind of mental illness. So far we are left thinking that these were just crimes committed due to a hatred of America/Americans which also separates it from the other 2.

I left out VMA because I am not sure what that stands for?

Sorry, I meant Virginia Tech. I think that it should be considered that they were all disaffected and alienated young men of a certain age. I wonder if the Tsarneav brothers were that much more "radical terrorists," than they were misguided young men, like the perpetrators of the other massacres that I mentioned. By a lot of accounts, they were not members of the local Islamic community. I'm not saying that they couldn't have been recruited from the outside, (and I do think that's important to figure out,) but I'm saying that there is something that has to be looked at about young me, and what makes them lash out. And there could be a relationship between these events. And if we just call some "insane," we may well be missing an important connection.

Hopefully we will get some answers from the younger one, for now it is still speculation. I do see your point that Boston, Aurora, Newtown and Virginia Tech all have a couple things in common, mainly that they were random acts of violence against people the perpetrators didn't even know. We will see if Boston is different in that the suspects weren't bats--- crazy, because the latter 3 were.

 

[Moxie]

I really wonder if the recent tragedy in Boston didn't have a lot more to do with disaffected young men, than with radical terrorism? I DO want the government to find out if foreign entities are seeking out these vulnerable young men, but, in many ways, what is so different from Boston, MA; Aurora, CO; Newtown, CT and even the VMA killings?

The difference between Boston and Aurora and Newtown is that the perps in the latter 2 were clearly insane. Nothing so far suggests that these 2 were insane or even had any kind of mental illness. So far we are left thinking that these were just crimes committed due to a hatred of America/Americans which also separates it from the other 2.



I left out VMA because I am not sure what that stands for?

Sorry, I meant Virginia Tech. I think that it should be considered that they were all disaffected and alienated young men of a certain age. I wonder if the Tsarneav brothers were that much more "radical terrorists," than they were misguided young men, like the perpetrators of the other massacres that I mentioned. By a lot of accounts, they were not members of the local Islamic community. I'm not saying that they couldn't have been recruited from the outside, (and I do think that's important to figure out,) but I'm saying that there is something that has to be looked at about young me, and what makes them lash out. And there could be a relationship between these events. And if we just call some "insane," we may well be missing an important connection.

Hopefully we will get some answers from the younger one, for now it is still speculation. I do see your point that Boston, Aurora, Newtown and Virginia Tech all have a couple things in common, mainly that they were random acts of violence against people the perpetrators didn't even know. We will see if Boston is different in that the suspects weren't bats--- crazy, because the latter 3 were.

There is schizophrenia, and there is alienation. I think we really have to look at what makes certain young men prone to psychological breaks that lead to extreme and random violence. It is always young men, and they aren't always "crazy."

 

[Johnsteinbeck]

i think you're pointing out a very important subject there. and even if we look abroad, the terrorists who are actually committing the crimes, the ones blowing themselves up, are - nine times out of ten - troubled young men (as opposed to those who're pulling the strings and telling them what to do).

it's not as easy as one man is sick, one is healthy. the lines often blur. blowing innocent people up, killing kids, shooting yourself - that's not exactly signs of mental health if you ask me. these are not well-calculated acts of greed or spur of the moment crimes of passion. it's a whole other level, and in that, these instances are more similar than one might think at first.

mind you, i'm not trying to 'defend' any of the perpetrators here; it's not about letting them off easy. to draw the line between accountability and insanity in criminal procedures is one thing, but there's the wholly different question of understanding how things, how people can go this far. to see these latest crimes in the context with Virginia Tech or Columbine, or even Ted Kaczynski or even Manson (both radicalized in their twenties) might give us another important perspective indeed.

unfortunately, i'm very much afraid that these are old questions, and not ones that will lead us to a lot of answers and even less solutions. that doesn't mean, however, that we can ignore them either.

 

[shawnbm]

I really wonder if the recent tragedy in Boston didn't have a lot more to do with disaffected young men, than with radical terrorism? I DO want the government to find out if foreign entities are seeking out these vulnerable young men, but, in many ways, what is so different from Boston, MA; Aurora, CO; Newtown, CT and even the VMA killings?

The difference between Boston and Aurora and Newtown is that the perps in the latter 2 were clearly insane. Nothing so far suggests that these 2 were insane or even had any kind of mental illness. So far we are left thinking that these were just crimes committed due to a hatred of America/Americans which also separates it from the other 2.

I left out VMA because I am not sure what that stands for?

Sorry, I meant Virginia Tech. I think that it should be considered that they were all disaffected and alienated young men of a certain age. I wonder if the Tsarneav brothers were that much more "radical terrorists," than they were misguided young men, like the perpetrators of the other massacres that I mentioned. By a lot of accounts, they were not members of the local Islamic community. I'm not saying that they couldn't have been recruited from the outside, (and I do think that's important to figure out,) but I'm saying that there is something that has to be looked at about young me, and what makes them lash out. And there could be a relationship between these events. And if we just call some "insane," we may well be missing an important connection.

You bring up an interesting point, moxie. Why is it usually young men who feel it is them against the world? I don't know, but I don't think that is an unusual phase youth go through--usually unscathed, but with a few trying times that teach them a bit of character.

At any rate, I just read a few articles on Yahoo this morning and see that these two--particularly the older deceased brother--were members of a Boston mosque, the elder one came under the influence of a Moslem exorcist they are calling "Misha" and was asked to leave his mosque if he kept having outbursts concerning accommodation to American life and celebrating holidays. The family is even saying the older brother was very involved in Islam towards the end--a much more overtly religious man than prior. These are all part of the puzzle, but then those who were not Islamic and did what they did in West Virginia, Norway, etc. look to be largely the same in terms of being alienated with very strong opinions about the appropriateness of killing people to send a message, at times on a massive and terrifying scale. It is a sad and disturbing thing to be sure.