Boston

[Moxie]

My initial reaction was that it was a domestic group or just one crazy individual acting alone. The White trash, excuse me...white power groups have been causing a lot of mayhem this past year and not just against minorities. Nothing in this country is surprising at this point. Also it seems too small for it to be Al Qaeda. It is tragic regardless and hopefully they get to the bottom of it.

I agree that it's early to make assumptions, but I'd be surprised if it's an individual. And it was tax-deadline day in the US, and Patriot's Day in Boston, so the inclination is to think right-wingers.

"Right-wingers" in this context isn't a fair use of that phrase. If you had used, say, "right-wing extremist group" that would have been better (similar to what you used below). "Right-wingers" is a general term which shouldn't be used to describe terrorists, just as "left-wingers" shouldn't be, either.

I'm not pointing in a direction, just cautioning those who would go straight to Islamist extremists.

But that's exactly what you just did: point in a direction, i.e. right-wingers.

You're trying to have it both ways here in a do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do manner.

OK, guilty as charged. I was inclining in a direction while discouraging others from inclining in another, which I found racist. It's not useful to incline in any direction, as it closes the mind. Even as there now seem to be suspects, the police have been wrong before. (Atlanta.) I just hope they find those that did it very soon.

 

[DarthFed]

My initial reaction was that it was a domestic group or just one crazy individual acting alone. The White trash, excuse me...white power groups have been causing a lot of mayhem this past year and not just against minorities. Nothing in this country is surprising at this point. Also it seems too small for it to be Al Qaeda. It is tragic regardless and hopefully they get to the bottom of it.

I agree that it's early to make assumptions, but I'd be surprised if it's an individual. And it was tax-deadline day in the US, and Patriot's Day in Boston, so the inclination is to think right-wingers.

"Right-wingers" in this context isn't a fair use of that phrase. If you had used, say, "right-wing extremist group" that would have been better (similar to what you used below). "Right-wingers" is a general term which shouldn't be used to describe terrorists, just as "left-wingers" shouldn't be, either.

I'm not pointing in a direction, just cautioning those who would go straight to Islamist extremists.

But that's exactly what you just did: point in a direction, i.e. right-wingers.

You're trying to have it both ways here in a do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do manner.

OK, guilty as charged. I was inclining in a direction while discouraging others from inclining in another, which I found racist. It's not useful to incline in any direction, as it closes the mind. Even as there now seem to be suspects, the police have been wrong before. (Atlanta.) I just hope they find those that did it very soon.

Hmm. Well Darth used the term "white trash" and "white power" yet you didn't consider that racially biased, nor did you try to discourage that

I find that kind of terminology just as objectionable.

As it turns out, the suspects are not home grown white trash right wingers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ap-sources-boston-bomb-suspects-from-russia-region-near-chechnya-lived-in-us-at-least-1-year/2013/04/19/761ede36-a8dd-11e2-9e1c-bb0fb0c2edd9_story.html

The white power groups are white trash IMO and that's being nice.

Hope they take the last one alive. Good old fashioned torture will be nice and they need to find out if he is part of a larger group currently here in the U.S.

 

[Johnsteinbeck]

^ I mainly hope they get him before he gets to hurt anyone else. that's a 19year old there, possibly armed, possibly carrying explosives, he's on all the news, his brother's dead... sounds like a horrible cocktail to me. i just hope that the worst part of this isn't yet to come. :/

 

[Kieran]

I hope they get this guy alive. There's a lot of nutters out there who believe conspiracy theories, etc. If he dies, the misinformation will escalate. Plus, there's due process, which I think needs to be followed, if it can be. But I don't know how they'll get from this, to that...

 

[britbox]

Chechens were regarded as freedom fighters... when they were bombing Russia, that is.

 

[Kieran]

Chechens were regarded as freedom fighters... when they were bombing Russia, that is.

Well, they have a shared history with Russia. I wonder what's going on here...

 

[britbox]

Chechens were regarded as freedom fighters... when they were bombing Russia, that is.

Well, they have a shared history with Russia. I wonder what's going on here...

No idea buddy...and right now I'm not sure anyone really knows.

 

[britbox]

Chechens were regarded as freedom fighters... when they were bombing Russia, that is.

Well, they have a shared history with Russia. I wonder what's going on here...

No idea buddy...and right now I'm not sure anyone really knows.

The key piece of information (for me) is if they acted alone. From all the information to date, it seems they did. Hopefully that's the case and there aren't any connected cells waiting to go do something.

Very difficult to say at this point. If as has been suggested that they were Chechen then it's pretty difficult to connect the dots with an obvious motive.

 

[Kieran]

I must say, I agree with this article about Obama's empty versifying. It's difficult for politicians to strike the right note, without sounding like they're trying too hard and I know he was trying to inspire, but this is just way off target.

I didn't know they had the second guy surrounded. Terrifying for the people who live there...

 

[DarthFed]

The ethnicity is certainly a surprise. The uncle also said that the brothers have been in the States for at least a decade making the younger suspect a young boy at the time of his arrival. Which means he would in essence be a homegrown terrorist. It does seem that they acted alone and are not part of a terrorist cell. Now if it turns out these guys came to the U.S. less than a year ago or even within the past few years it makes you wonder if more is going on and if there are other Chechens here waiting to strike.

I highly doubt he will be taken alive and undoubtedly there will be a lot of unanswered questions. Hopefully the only imminent death will be his own.

 

[DarthFed]

The ethnicity is certainly a surprise. The uncle also said that the brothers have been in the States for at least a decade making the younger suspect a young boy at the time of his arrival. Which means he would in essence be a homegrown terrorist.

Bit of a stretch. We don't know, but I would guess that their world view is influenced by philosophies that aren't homegrown in the USA. The elder brother was 16 when he came here, the younger 9.

EDIT: MSNBC just stated that the one brother became a United States citizen on 9/11/2012. He left the country for 6 months last year and they're wondering if he received any form of "training"/radicalization while he was away.

- This from Mother Jones, investigating Al Qaeda connections.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/boston-bombing-suspect-posted-video-al-qaeda-prophecy-youtube

There is no question they hold views not from the U.S. The point I was trying to make is that it seems very unlikely they came here 10 years ago with the intent to launch terrorist attacks against the United States. They would have struck sooner and probably harder. The younger one who is still on the loose pretty much grew up in the States. It seems they were likely "recently radicalized". All speculation of course, I doubt we will ever know as there is little chance this last POS is taken alive.

The article you mentioned is interesting and it would seem like a distinct possibility that he may have been radicalized during a trip out of the states. But then it's possible he always held those beliefs and put on a good front for 10 years.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

They are wondering about these kids' connections and the training they might have received to pull what they did off , and I am thinking to myself "Really, ? Do you really have to go to Afghanistan to learn how to put together a pressure cooker bomb? Don't we have google for that? Plus, they really do not strike me as pros, what with no exit strategy and robbing a 7/11 and hanging around the neighbourhood..."
Am I wrong in thinking that these are a couple of losers probably acting on their own,but of course sharing the views of one extremist group or the other, however not needing any training of any kind?

 

[brokenshoelace]

They are wondering about these kids' connections and the training they might have received to pull what they did off , and I am thinking to myself "Really, ? Do you really have to go to Afghanistan to learn how to put together a pressure cooker bomb? Don't we have google for that? Plus, they really do not strike me as pros, what with no exit strategy and robbing a 7/11 and hanging around the neighbourhood..."
Am I wrong in thinking that these are a couple of losers probably acting on their own,but of course sharing the views of one extremist group or the other, however not needing any training of any kind?

Agreed. Though it's important to note that the 7/11 robbery turned out to be an unrelated coincidence. They didn't rob it.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

They are wondering about these kids' connections and the training they might have received to pull what they did off , and I am thinking to myself "Really, ? Do you really have to go to Afghanistan to learn how to put together a pressure cooker bomb? Don't we have google for that? Plus, they really do not strike me as pros, what with no exit strategy and robbing a 7/11 and hanging around the neighbourhood..."
Am I wrong in thinking that these are a couple of losers probably acting on their own,but of course sharing the views of one extremist group or the other, however not needing any training of any kind?

Agreed. Though it's important to note that the 7/11 robbery turned out to be an unrelated coincidence. They didn't rob it.

Oh, i missed that part, but the point stands.
Well, they caught the dude, so maybe we will learn more, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[DarthFed]

Just happy that he was taken alive and no one else was hurt. It will be interesting to find out what they can learn about what drove them to this.

I don't think training is being used in the context that they are taught make bombs and become "super terrorists". The training is that they were probably "radicalized" at some point and they could rationalize pulling off these senseless crimes.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Just happy that he was taken alive and no one else was hurt. It will be interesting to find out what they can learn about what drove them to this.

I don't think training is being used in the context that they are taught make bombs and become "super terrorists". The training is that they were probably "radicalized" at some point and they could rationalize pulling off these senseless crimes.

I agree. "brainwashed" would have been a better term , but some talking heads on tv kept making these remarks about how advanced this operation was and how it was impossible it was to pull it off without training and all that.
Made no sense to me.

 

[DarthFed]

Just happy that he was taken alive and no one else was hurt. It will be interesting to find out what they can learn about what drove them to this.

I don't think training is being used in the context that they are taught make bombs and become "super terrorists". The training is that they were probably "radicalized" at some point and they could rationalize pulling off these senseless crimes.

I agree. "brainwashed" would have been a better term , but some talking heads on tv kept making these remarks about how advanced this operation was and how it was impossible it was to pull it off without training and all that.
Made no sense to me.

Ok I hadn't really heard them saying that but I haven't watched all the live coverage. Making hand-made grenades is not common and certainly nothing local police will have seen so I'm guessing they are mostly alluding to that. The younger suspect was apparently in medical school so he may have known how to make all sorts of explosives without any training from terrorist groups.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

They are wondering about these kids' connections and the training they might have received to pull what they did off , and I am thinking to myself "Really, ? Do you really have to go to Afghanistan to learn how to put together a pressure cooker bomb? Don't we have google for that? Plus, they really do not strike me as pros, what with no exit strategy and robbing a 7/11 and hanging around the neighbourhood..."
Am I wrong in thinking that these are a couple of losers probably acting on their own,but of course sharing the views of one extremist group or the other, however not needing any training of any kind?

The pilots who flew the planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon didn't have an exit strategy either. :dodgy:

The elder brother went to Russia, from there they don't know where he went, but that when he returned he was radicalized. They are still putting the timeline together. Most of these people who do such things are as you say losers. And until there is more information there's the possibility that small cells of similar losers are out there waiting to do their thing.

Reducing it to the idea that two idiots got on the internet and came up with this idea, without exploring the possible ramifications is, naive. Homeland security and all the other networks will be systematic and thorough in finding out everything they can.

The pilots of 9/11 did not NEED an exit strategy and they did have training, in the US, so I am not sure what you mean there...:-/
I did not reduce this incident to " two idiots got on the internet and came up with this idea". All i said was anybody who knows how to browse the net could pull this off and that you do not need to be trained in a foreign land or anything like that.
There is no doubt these guys were radicalized or brainwashed or whatever, but that still does not require you to travel overseas in this day and age.
I thought i was pretty clear.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

they are homegrown terrorists really (usa)..the family emigrated so long ago in those bombers lives from Chechnya,

that's going to freak people out more even than the actual bombing maybe ??...and 3 dead, from 2 bombs, the crowd were lucky the bombs were a bit feeble..although some nasty injuries.

 

[tented]

they are homegrown terrorists really (usa)..the family emigrated so long ago in those bombers lives from Chechnya,

that's going to freak people out more even than the actual bombing maybe ??...and 3 dead, from 2 bombs, the crowd were lucky the bombs were a bit feeble..although some nasty injuries.

There are lots of horrible things which happen in the US by people born here (Oklahoma City, Newtown, Columbine, etc.), so the fact that they had lived in the US for so long doesn't freak me out.