Beijing Open ATP 500

[TennisFanatic7]

Everyone made a much bigger deal out of that than there was to be made. All he did was criticise the negativity of the No campaign.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I noticed that Rafa and Andujar will play Berdych and Isner in their first rd doubles match
That should be a good test for the Spainish pair..

 

[Moxie]

I noticed that Rafa and Andujar will play Berdych and Isner in their first rd doubles match
That should be a good test for the Spainish pair..

That's a tough first round match, for both pairs. Tall guys with big serves v. the swift Spaniards. I won't be sorry whenever Rafa and Pablo go out, since it's meant to be batting practice. (Probably for 3 of the 4.)

 

[Iona16]

Everyone made a much bigger deal out of that than there was to be made. All he did was criticise the negativity of the No campaign.

In all honesty I thought it would be a bigger deal than it turned out to be. Very happy to be proved wrong.

I think some posters on here get a little confused when they talk about a British crowd and Andy not being popular with Brits.

 

[Riotbeard]

Novak takes this, easy. I have been hearing about the impact rafa will make in the fall for years. I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Moxie]

Novak takes this, easy. I have been hearing about the impact rafa will make in the fall for years. I will believe it when I see it.

Yeah, but if there's ever been a fall when he might have an advantage...(I hope! :angel: )

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Murray is so worried that he will be ill treated in UK, he is spending all his time in China.
He is playing Shenzhen, then Beijing and then Shanghai. Looks like he may apply for Chinese
citizenship.

I was thinking about this the day he announced his feelings towards Scottish independence and Wimbledon next year will be very interesting to see how much booing he receives. If it's bad it may very well hurt his chances there for the future.

Wimbledon is too far away and by that time everybody would have forgotten what Murray
said. But, in London O2, it may still be fresh in people's minds.

 

[Moxie]

Murray is so worried that he will be ill treated in UK, he is spending all his time in China.
He is playing Shenzhen, then Beijing and then Shanghai. Looks like he may apply for Chinese
citizenship.

I was thinking about this the day he announced his feelings towards Scottish independence and Wimbledon next year will be very interesting to see how much booing he receives. If it's bad it may very well hurt his chances there for the future.

Wimbledon is too far away and by that time everybody would have forgotten what Murray
said. But, in London O2, it may still be fresh in people's minds.

Why so interested in making a "thing" out of it? Politics is one thing, sport another. And it's not even your country.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Murray is so worried that he will be ill treated in UK, he is spending all his time in China.
He is playing Shenzhen, then Beijing and then Shanghai. Looks like he may apply for Chinese
citizenship.

I was thinking about this the day he announced his feelings towards Scottish independence and Wimbledon next year will be very interesting to see how much booing he receives. If it's bad it may very well hurt his chances there for the future.

Wimbledon is too far away and by that time everybody would have forgotten what Murray
said. But, in London O2, it may still be fresh in people's minds.

Why so interested in making a "thing" out of it? Politics is one thing, sport another. And it's not even your country.

I am not making a "thing" out of it. Just curious to see how he will be received.

 

[Moxie]

Murray is so worried that he will be ill treated in UK, he is spending all his time in China.
He is playing Shenzhen, then Beijing and then Shanghai. Looks like he may apply for Chinese
citizenship.

I was thinking about this the day he announced his feelings towards Scottish independence and Wimbledon next year will be very interesting to see how much booing he receives. If it's bad it may very well hurt his chances there for the future.

Wimbledon is too far away and by that time everybody would have forgotten what Murray
said. But, in London O2, it may still be fresh in people's minds.

Why so interested in making a "thing" out of it? Politics is one thing, sport another. And it's not even your country.

I am not making a "thing" out of it. Just curious to see how he will be received.

TBH, you are pushing it pretty hard. Iona has said that he wasn't treated so badly about it, as others amongst our English fans have commented, too. You might be curious as to whether there will be back-blow in London, but at this point there's nothing to do but wait, eh? And, since no one is interested to bite, you could probably stop asking, now. Otherwise, it gives the appearance that you're just looking to stir up controversy where there really isn't any.

 

[nehmeth]

I was thinking about this the day he announced his feelings towards Scottish independence and Wimbledon next year will be very interesting to see how much booing he receives. If it's bad it may very well hurt his chances there for the future.

Wimbledon is too far away and by that time everybody would have forgotten what Murray
said. But, in London O2, it may still be fresh in people's minds.

Why so interested in making a "thing" out of it? Politics is one thing, sport another. And it's not even your country.

I am not making a "thing" out of it. Just curious to see how he will be received.

TBH, you are pushing it pretty hard. Iona has said that he wasn't treated so badly about it, as others amongst our English fans have commented, too. You might be curious as to whether there will be back-blow in London, but at this point there's nothing to do but wait, eh? And, since no one is interested to bite, you could probably stop asking, now. Otherwise, it gives the appearance that you're just looking to stir up controversy where there really isn't any.

Sorry for signing on so late to this, as I've been quite busy. But I am also curious to see how this plays out. My thoughts when Murray came out for independence were very much how he would be received by the English. I think this is honest conversation worth discussing and not just stirring controversy.

 

[Moxie]

Wimbledon is too far away and by that time everybody would have forgotten what Murray
said. But, in London O2, it may still be fresh in people's minds.

Why so interested in making a "thing" out of it? Politics is one thing, sport another. And it's not even your country.

I am not making a "thing" out of it. Just curious to see how he will be received.

TBH, you are pushing it pretty hard. Iona has said that he wasn't treated so badly about it, as others amongst our English fans have commented, too. You might be curious as to whether there will be back-blow in London, but at this point there's nothing to do but wait, eh? And, since no one is interested to bite, you could probably stop asking, now. Otherwise, it gives the appearance that you're just looking to stir up controversy where there really isn't any.

Sorry for signing on so late to this, as I've been quite busy. But I am also curious to see how this plays out. My thoughts when Murray came out for independence were very much how he would be received by the English. I think this is honest conversation worth discussing and not just stirring controversy.

Why, though, really? It's just a tennis player's opinion. Other tennis players have also made controversial comments about politics, to much less conversation. (Isner on Israel is one, and all of Li Na's career would be another, as examples.) You may be curious as to how this plays out, nehmeth, but I don't think it justifies speculation until we actually see how it goes for Murray in London. Otherwise, we're inserting a political conversation into a tennis one, no? If the question is what Murray should/shouldn't have said, that's debatable, and should be discussed here:

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1945&page=19

If the wonder is how he'll be received in London the next time he plays there, that's unknowable, and so should be shelved until we see. At least that's my opinion.

 

[nehmeth]

Sorry for signing on so late to this, as I've been quite busy. But I am also curious to see how this plays out. My thoughts when Murray came out for independence were very much how he would be received by the English. I think this is honest conversation worth discussing and not just stirring controversy.

Why, though, really? It's just a tennis player's opinion. Other tennis players have also made controversial comments about politics, to much less conversation. (Isner on Israel is one, and all of Li Na's career would be another, as examples.) You may be curious as to how this plays out, nehmeth, but I don't think it justifies speculation until we actually see how it goes for Murray in London. Otherwise, we're inserting a political conversation into a tennis one, no? If the question is what Murray should/shouldn't have said, that's debatable, and should be discussed here:

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1945&page=19

If the wonder is how he'll be received in London the next time he plays there, that's unknowable, and so should be shelved until we see. At least that's my opinion.

It's about an ATP player on tour and something he said. If you are going to be consistent, why is the Bodo thread on the ATP forum? Shouldn't it be on general tennis talk? How about the "Who's going to try Fed's stick" thread? Shouldn't that be on General Tennis Talk as well? No, this is about an ATP player and something he said. You shouldn't be so heavy with your foot, just because you don't like the conversation.

MUCH of discussion is speculation Moxie. Who will win? How will so and so do? Murray's comment is current and worthy of comment. And when Wimbledon rolls around, we'll see if it has blown over by then, or if there is some strong sentiment remaining. We have threads that ask who will fall out of the top ten in the coming year, and how something will affect someone's play. This (to me) falls within those lines.

Furthermore, as to inserting political conversation, weren't you one of the ones that accused Djokovic of being a tax dodger and not (in your opinion) truly a Serbian citizen, calling him Monegasque because he chose to live in Monaco? Didn't you also go so far as to say something to the effect, that if he really cared about Serbia and his people then he'd live there and pay his taxes?

 

[Moxie]

^I agree that not all threads are without a bit of bleed-over, and I have no problem with that. But, in this particular case, I don't see how discussing it is going to make it different: yes, Murray's going to get a hard time for speaking out on separation, or, no, he's not. It becomes a conversation about separation, then, and yes, should be left to Off Topic. There isn't really any fine-point to it, nor anything that has to do with his tennis.

The issue of Djokovic tax-sheltering in Monaco is different, if you really want to bring that back up. He flies the Serbian standard very high, and plays DC for Serbia quite proudly. His "Serbian" identification has quite a lot to do with who he is, according to him, and yet he has his residence elsewhere, for tax reasons. I never questioned whether he was truly a Serbian citizen, though, yes, I have asked about the hypocrisy of caring about your country so much, and tax-sheltering out of it. It's not political or off-topic to comment on Djokovic's playing choices v. his homestead ones, because he, himself, blurs the lines.

Murray is British. He lives in Britain, and pays his taxes there. (And THAT can't be easy. OK, he spends a lot of his time in FL, but I don't see that he's transferred his residence to the US.) He made a comment about the referendum on separation. As many have said, it was as much complaining about the negativing about the NO campaign, which was fairly universal.

I'm not trying to give Murray a pass and Djokovic a hard time, but one is about a specific political moment, and the other is about a life-choice that speaks to a broader ethical decision.

To your point about people discussing what Murray had to say, and how it might be greeted in London, I don't have a problem with it being discussed, per se, but my point is: we won't know until we get there. So I don't get why GSM wants to push the notion that it might be a problem. To me, that seems pot-stirring, until, and if it actually becomes an issue.

 

[nehmeth]

^I agree that not all threads are without a bit of bleed-over, and I have no problem with that. But, in this particular case, I don't see how discussing it is going to make it different: yes, Murray's going to get a hard time for speaking out on separation, or, no, he's not. It becomes a conversation about separation, then, and yes, should be left to Off Topic. There isn't really any fine-point to it, nor anything that has to do with his tennis.

To your point about people discussing what Murray had to say, and how it might be greeted in London, I don't have a problem with it being discussed, per se, but my point is: we won't know until we get there. So I don't get why GSM wants to push the notion that it might be a problem. To me, that seems pot-stirring, until, and if it actually becomes an issue.

"Is his tweeted support for "yes" going to affect how he's received at Wimbledon?"

That is not an off topic question. While his vote was political, it has bearing on his playing Wimbledon. Murray was threatened for his "yes" vote. One went so far as to say they wish he'd been killed in the Dunblane massacre. Another mentioned how much support they (English) had given him at Wimbledon bookended by curses.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/independence-referendum-vicious-internet-troll-4280094

I most certainly think it will affect his reception at SW19 next year. I don't believe it will just blow over. Will he be booed? Maybe by one or two. But I am pretty sure it will be a lot quieter when he's playing on court. Will that affect his performance? i believe it will.

Do we wait until next year to see who will fall out of the top ten before discussing it? No. Do we wait until Novak becomes a Dad until we discuss how it might affect his tennis next year? No. Andy tweeted something that could very well have bearing on any tournament he plays in the UK, whether London (if he qualifies) or Wimbledon next year.

 

[Front242]

Andy received some pretty horrible tweets already so it's gonna have an impact for sure from some previous supporters who have turned against him.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

If Murray receives booing, that will be a negative for him.
If however Murray is simply greeted by a quieter crowd, I don't think it will be a negative.
At Wimbledon I suspect Murray would prefer it if the crowd was not so loud (because the loud crowds perhaps put too much pressure on him at times).
Its interesting, either way.

 

[Moxie]

"Discuss" or speculate at will. My point is that is a specific thing we won't know until it happens. I'm not sure why you have to remind us how ugly some trolls can be, though. Anyway, I think Murray deals well with a tough crowd.

Who stays in or falls out of the Top ten is tennis talk, so obviously that's a conversation we have here. How much Nole is, or will be, distracted by getting married/impending parenthood is a bit gossipy and speculative, I'll give you that. But even some of his fans have been working over that one.

 

[Moxie]

If Murray receives booing, that will be a negative for him.
If however Murray is simply greeted by a quieter crowd, I don't think it will be a negative.
At Wimbledon I suspect Murray would prefer it if the crowd was not so loud (because the loud crowds perhaps put too much pressure on him at times).
Its interesting, either way.

Murray is no stranger to putting his chin out and winning in front of a tough crowd.

 

[nehmeth]

"Discuss" or speculate at will. My point is that is a specific thing we won't know until it happens. I'm not sure why you have to remind us how ugly some trolls can be, though.

Because in an earlier post (#30) you accused a poster of "pushing it pretty hard" while stating Andy wasn't treated so badly. So, I was reminding you, not "us".

I agree that not all threads are without a bit of bleed-over, and I have no problem with that.

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2978

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2778

These are actual threads, not bleed overs. I'm fine with their being here, but when you as an administrator start telling folks they can't talk about this and that in this forum, then you better be consistent.

I understand with the blood doping issue and potentially being sued, and supported you on that.

I don't support your trying to shut down GSM's discussion within the ATP forum of how Murray's political stand may or may not affect his reception at Wimby.