Beijing F: Nadal vs Djokovic

[nehmeth]

Just finished watching the match - Ralf was not at his best... maybe because Novak was serving at 90% and not allowing many opportunities. Nadal sure helped with as many times as he shot himself in the foot with double faults and ill-timed errors when one of the few openings did present itself.

Congrats Nole for abandoning "patsy" mode. Let's see if you can do the same in the outdoors where there is real weather.

Congrats Rafa on your return to #1 on Monday.

 

[Kieran]

Just finished watching the match - Ralf was not at his best... maybe because Novak was serving at 90% and not allowing any opportunities. Nadal sure helped with as many times as he shot himself in the foot with double faults and ill-timed errors when one of the few openings did present itself.

Congrats Nole for abandoning "patsy" mode. Let's see if you can do the same in the outdoors where there is real weather.

Congrats Rafa on your return to #1 on Monday.

Good post. Had to be satisfying for Nole's fans to see him play at such a high level and dominate Rafa from the start of both sets. From his perspective, it gives his autumn swing the perfect start. Maybe Novak will come out of this year with more hope and strength than looked likely last week...

 

[calitennis127]

I just watched the re-run of this match on Tennis Channel.

Nadal was well below his US Open level in the first set but then he did pick it up noticeably in the second. My overall impression of this match was that Djokovic made his performances in Montreal and New York look cowardly and all the more inexcusable.

It's not that Djokovic was perfect in this final. It's that he was sharp from the start. In Montreal, he hit double faults in the first game and allowed Nadal to have a major leg up at the start of the set. In the US Open, Djokovic was inexcusably passive in the first set, only hitting something like 5 or 6 winners. In the second set, he exploded for around 20. Today, in the first set there were no double faults in the first two games and he didn't cheaply give away a break, only to play passively and hesitantly before conceding the first set.

Another issue Djokovic is going to have to address is Nadal's slice to his backhand. That is really troubling Djokovic and he is going to have come up with a plan for handling it.

But, overall, this match makes his losses in Montreal and New York all the more inexcusable.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Just finished watching the match - Ralf was not at his best... maybe because Novak was serving at 90% and not allowing any opportunities. Nadal sure helped with as many times as he shot himself in the foot with double faults and ill-timed errors when one of the few openings did present itself.

Congrats Nole for abandoning "patsy" mode. Let's see if you can do the same in the outdoors where there is real weather.

Congrats Rafa on your return to #1 on Monday.

Good post. Had to be satisfying for Nole's fans to see him play at such a high level and dominate Rafa from the start of both sets. From his perspective, it gives his autumn swing the perfect start. Maybe Novak will come out of this year with more hope and strength than looked likely last week...

Novak had the distinction of being the defending champ on a court he has never lost on.

His team told him this was a very important match to win looking forward to the Aussie Open, and even the Masters. 4 losses in a row would have tipped the balance, and 3 in a row on hard court would have been unacceptable.

His service return was the big factor here. He is the only one that can consistently bring Rafa's lefty, spinny serve right back down the middle deep at Nadal's feet, giving him nothing to work with, or even better, on some occasions putting him on the defensive.

Also, Novak is the only player that does the Rafa paradigm in reverse..his cross court forehand to Rafa's backhand is a difficult pattern for Rafa. Novak's forehand has way more spin than most people realize. Conversely, Novak handles Rafa's forehand to his back hand reasonably well.

His movement is the last part of it. He and Murray are virtually the only players that can defend against the Nadal spin.

In the end Congrats to Nadal for the #1 ranking. He deserves it.

 

[huntingyou]

similar dynamics to Monte Carlos 2012, there was no reason to give your rival such opportunity to pick himself up. The #1 ranking was guaranteed at Shanghai with a QF appereance or Novak not winning it. This tournament was a negative but Rafa knows no bounds to his stupidity...........fuel the Djoker at your own peril.

 

[Kieran]

They're top players, Hunting, and Nole had beaten Rafa 15 times before today, it was a fast court and he was likely more motivated. It happens. Can't expect Rafa to beat Nole every time - or vice versa.

Looking at the rest of the year, I know Rafa has signed up for Shanghai, Paris, Basle and the WTF. It seems a hectic schedule, if he's going deep each time. I'd look at cutting some of this and playing only two tourneys, including the WTF...

 

[calitennis127]

similar dynamics to Monte Carlos 2012, there was no reason to give your rival such opportunity to pick himself up. The #1 ranking was guaranteed at Shanghai with a QF appereance or Novak not winning it. This tournament was a negative but Rafa knows no bounds to his stupidity...........fuel the Djoker at your own peril.

Nadal is smarter than you about his scheduling and injuries happen to all players.

Nadal has not over-scheduled in his career. That is a myth.

 

[the AntiPusher]

They're top players, Hunting, and Nole had beaten Rafa 15 times before today, it was a fast court and he was likely more motivated. It happens. Can't expect Rafa to beat Nole every time - or vice versa.

Looking at the rest of the year, I know Rafa has signed up for Shanghai, Paris, Basle and the WTF. It seems a hectic schedule, if he's going deep each time. I'd look at cutting some of this and playing only two tourneys, including the WTF...

Can't expect Rafa to beat Nole every time - or vice versa.

And if there is anyone who expects Rafa to win everytime is a complete Fool in the 1st order. I know if they meet in Shanghai it will be a more competitive match. I have stated it numerous of times, if all things remain true(Rafa and Djoker being healthy), they will always be the last two standing. It will always come down to who is the aggressor(obviously it was Djoker in today) and who plays the big points better regardless of the surface because these two players are very similar in skillset.

 

[huntingyou]

They're top players, Hunting, and Nole had beaten Rafa 15 times before today, it was a fast court and he was likely more motivated. It happens. Can't expect Rafa to beat Nole every time - or vice versa.

Looking at the rest of the year, I know Rafa has signed up for Shanghai, Paris, Basle and the WTF. It seems a hectic schedule, if he's going deep each time. I'd look at cutting some of this and playing only two tourneys, including the WTF...

you don't get my point, I actually called the match in favor of Novak and was not surprise at all of how clinical Novak was.

China is not a mandatory tournament, Rafa just finished DC after a grueling summer HC season. There was no need to play this tournament, especially on a court where your main threat to future slams plays superb historically.

Rafa was going to get the #1 in Shanghai, not doubt about it and it would have give him a more neutral venue if he were to face Novak in the final.

Now, you gave your rival who was grasping for air (just like Rafa at MC in 2012) a life line. For the record, I have said many times this rivalry will turn a couple more times.........Rafa doesn't need to put himself willingly out there for that to happen.

Novak's own words:

“I needed this win today. I really wanted to get my hands on the trophy and win against Nadal, who has been the best player so far in 2013. It’s very important for my confidence. It’s very important mentally and emotionally for me.”

 

[Mog]

Rafa wasn't conserving energy. For what? This is the final, against his biggest rival. He was outplayed, simple as that...

Agreed Kieran.
Congrates to Nole.

 

[the AntiPusher]

They're top players, Hunting, and Nole had beaten Rafa 15 times before today, it was a fast court and he was likely more motivated. It happens. Can't expect Rafa to beat Nole every time - or vice versa.

Looking at the rest of the year, I know Rafa has signed up for Shanghai, Paris, Basle and the WTF. It seems a hectic schedule, if he's going deep each time. I'd look at cutting some of this and playing only two tourneys, including the WTF...

you don't get my point, I actually called the match in favor of Novak and was not surprise at all of how clinical Novak was.

China is not a mandatory tournament, Rafa just finished DC after a grueling summer HC season. There was no need to play this tournament, especially on a court where your main threat to future slams plays superb historically.

Rafa was going to get the #1 in Shanghai, not doubt about it and it would have give him a more neutral venue if he were to face Novak in the final.

Now, you gave your rival who was grasping for air (just like Rafa at MC in 2012) a life line. For the record, I have said many times this rivalry will turn a couple more times.........Rafa doesn't need to put himself willingly out there for that to happen.

Novak's own words:

“I needed this win today. I really wanted to get my hands on the trophy and win against Nadal, who has been the best player so far in 2013. It’s very important for my confidence. It’s very important mentally and emotionally for me.”

I am not going to feed into this too much HU, However, Rafa stated that he gained a lot of confidence playing against Djoker at the AO 12 final although he lost. At this point in his career, Rafa isn't going to allow Djoker to get inside of his head again. He knows how to counter Djoker and vice versa. I am not of the philosophy of dodging my competition. Rafa really used China as a tune up for Shanghai and if he meets Djoker he will come out with a lot more aggression. The best player won today and its time to move on to the next tourney.

 

[Kieran]

I agree with you largely, Hunting, especially as to why Rafa played this event in the first place. Can only imagine it was for the money. It's not a huge prestigious event and he has Shanghai next week. Also, maybe this is similar to Rafa in MC in 2012, but maybe it isn't.

Nole got into Rafa's head before - and Rafa figured it out. We have to believe that he keeps it figured out, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. This meant more to Nole, but that doesn't mean we're going back to 2011. It just means Rafa has to play mega tennis with Godzilla sized efforts if they meet again.

He was gonna try do that anyway. But somewhere along the line, Nole was also going to click the W. The effect of this remains to be seen, and I'd certainly like Rafa to cut back on a couple of events he has scheduled for the remainder of the year...

 

[huntingyou]

good points both of you. I'm not concern with Novak getting into Rafa's head but to be honest, he doesn't need to...the guy it's a flat out amazing player so I'm always edgy when it comes to him......the only guy who can stop Rafa when both are playing top tennis regardless.

 

[the AntiPusher]

good points both of you. I'm not concern with Novak getting into Rafa's head but to be honest, he doesn't need to...the guy it's a flat out amazing player so I'm always edgy when it comes to him......the only guy who can stop Rafa when both are playing top tennis regardless.

Agreed, And I feel ya Brotha... The margin for UFEs and etc is so slim when these two face off. To tell you the truth, Djoker kicked Rafa's butt well today which saved me from misery( I don't want to ever experience AO 12 final.. I have had it on my dvr and I still cant bear to watch it):nono

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just finished watching the match - Ralf was not at his best... maybe because Novak was serving at 90% and not allowing many opportunities. Nadal sure helped with as many times as he shot himself in the foot with double faults and ill-timed errors when one of the few openings did present itself.

Congrats Nole for abandoning "patsy" mode. Let's see if you can do the same in the outdoors where there is real weather.

Congrats Rafa on your return to #1 on Monday.

I believe China Open is being played outdoors.

 

[kskate2]

Congrats to Novak for winning his 4th Gold Cup. :clap

 

[honey1269]

I wouldn't bet on Djokovic to beat anyone good until it happens again. He has shrunk away from the challenges for most of the past 2 years now. Rafa in straights or 3 with an easy 3rd set.

uh? Really??
Well he proved you wrong and BP crumbled.

 

[DarthFed]

I wouldn't bet on Djokovic to beat anyone good until it happens again. He has shrunk away from the challenges for most of the past 2 years now. Rafa in straights or 3 with an easy 3rd set.

uh? Really??
Well he proved you wrong and BP crumbled.

Yes he did. He needed this badly, we'll see if it helps him in the bigger events.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I agree with you largely, Hunting, especially as to why Rafa played this event in the first place. Can only imagine it was for the money. It's not a huge prestigious event and he has Shanghai next week. Also, maybe this is similar to Rafa in MC in 2012, but maybe it isn't.

Nole got into Rafa's head before - and Rafa figured it out. We have to believe that he keeps it figured out, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. This meant more to Nole, but that doesn't mean we're going back to 2011. It just means Rafa has to play mega tennis with Godzilla sized efforts if they meet again.

He was gonna try do that anyway. But somewhere along the line, Nole was also going to click the W. The effect of this remains to be seen, and I'd certainly like Rafa to cut back on a couple of events he has scheduled for the remainder of the year...

I believe after playing in Shanghi and Basel, if it becomes almost sure that Rafa will
end up as #1 in YER, Rafa will skip Paris.

Remember that this year Basel, Paris and WTF are in three successive weeks. It is
hard for those who play in all three of these events. If you skip Paris, you will have
better chances in WTF.

Also, remember that Basel court conditions are similar to that of WTF and so
playing in Basel is a good prep for WTF.

Finally, remember that Rafa is getting paid in six figures to show up in Basel.

Last, but not the least, Rafa does not have to play in Davis cup this year
after the WTF and so that is one extra week of vacation.

To summarize, Rafa's schedule will remain the same, except that he may
possibly skip Paris if it becomes almost sure (before that point itself) that he
would finish YE#1. If it is not sure, he would be playing in Paris and it is
worth doing so, as finishing YE#1 is indeed a big deal.

 

[kskate2]

I wouldn't bet on Djokovic to beat anyone good until it happens again. He has shrunk away from the challenges for most of the past 2 years now. Rafa in straights or 3 with an easy 3rd set.

uh? Really??
Well he proved you wrong and BP crumbled.

Who is BP?